- Reaction score
- 17,810
- Points
- 1,010
Nope. Apollo.
A Blog Link About Toxic Leadership
- Thread starter ericsauve2
- Start date
- Reaction score
- 17,810
- Points
- 1,010
This is the nub of the problem.
We are willing to overlook character flaws in people who can win us a battle. That creates a moral dilemma for me that I have been unable to reconcile for years. Is wartime performance enough to payback potentially years or decades of peace time carnage that some leaders cause?
As for the hard boss in my example, I think for me what made him tolerable was that he was consistent. You knew what line not to cross with him and he was kind of equally a jerk to everyone, so it was hard for me take it personally. Now, the inconsistent toxic boss is the worst. I worked for one of those and that was longest year of my career, because you never knew what to expect. And he was professionally incompetent, so we continually had to cover for him, for the good of the unit.
Blackadder1916
Army.ca Fixture
- Reaction score
- 2,867
- Points
- 1,160
But she could be great fun out drinking. I wondered back then if her manner could be partially attributed to putting up a front, to be "one of the boys". Remember, back then, certain "differences" could lead to the attention of a three letter unit and potential for loss of career.
- Reaction score
- 22,856
- Points
- 1,360
Wasn’t quite there with only three weeks as an OCdt under my belt… lol
I suppose that could have been the case, but it doesn’t negate nor excuse the treatment she gave, particularly to the young women on course. On of my platoon mates successfully pursued a career in the CF as a nurse and we stayed in touch for quite some time, and she told me that the Capt’s treatment of the female OCdts stayed with her as a “never be like that example.”
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
- 8,847
- Points
- 1,040
Psychopaths aren't necessarily hardened criminals. Regardless, people who are born psychopaths don't deserve to be in prison. Whatever is proposed to deal with people with unfortunate innate characteristics can't be punishment.
OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
- Reaction score
- 16,139
- Points
- 1,260
If more people emulated that line of thinking then this world would be far better off.
Sometimes the bad example serves a purpose.....
Blackadder1916
Army.ca Fixture
- Reaction score
- 2,867
- Points
- 1,160
A valid point. But not having seen how she behaved as a BOTC Pl Comd, I can't make a comparison with her observed performance as a clinical nurse with supervisory responsibilities and later as a course mate. I agree that she could be crude, rude and obscene, but that also could describe a lot of us back then. But I will also agree that some of the CFOCS staff should never have been put in charge of BOTC platoons; I'll nominate the one I had for that category.
- Reaction score
- 6,755
- Points
- 1,360
Check here under 'admin',.....subscriptions or donations help Mr. Bobbitt keep the lights on.
lenaitch
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 3,901
- Points
- 1,160
Situational. Churchill was beloved as a national leader then shown the door the moment the war was over.
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
- 33,680
- Points
- 1,160
At the risk of offending @SeaKingTacco there's alot of work being done by consultants, and others, to better understand and address the issue of toxic leadership in the workplace. It's far bigger issue than just within the CAF, of course, which reflects the macro issues within society to a certain extent, especially as it pertains to the ongoing struggle to build more diverse workplaces. Viz:
Research has shown that toxic cultures are extremely costly for companies, and toxic culture was the single biggest predictor of attrition during the first six months of the Great Resignation. “Toxic rock stars,” or bullies who evade consequences because they deliver results, can ruin the workplace experience for most employees, but they’re particularly harmful to women of color. In the midst of the fight for talent, at a time when the link between diversity and better business outcomes is finally being understood and when external stakeholders are demanding accountability on diversity metrics, company leaders must look carefully at the wide-ranging impacts of tolerating and rewarding high-performing bullies at the expense of culture, particularly as they impact women of color.
hbr.org
Leaders, Stop Rewarding Toxic Rock Stars
Research has shown that toxic cultures are extremely costly for companies, and toxic culture was the single biggest predictor of attrition during the first six months of the Great Resignation. “Toxic rock stars,” or bullies who evade consequences because they deliver results, can ruin the workplace experience for most employees, but they’re particularly harmful to women of color. In the midst of the fight for talent, at a time when the link between diversity and better business outcomes is finally being understood and when external stakeholders are demanding accountability on diversity metrics, company leaders must look carefully at the wide-ranging impacts of tolerating and rewarding high-performing bullies at the expense of culture, particularly as they impact women of color.
Leaders, Stop Rewarding Toxic Rock Stars
Research has shown that toxic cultures are extremely costly for companies, and toxic culture was the single biggest predictor of attrition during the first six months of the Great Resignation. “Toxic rock stars,” or bullies who evade consequences because they deliver results, can ruin the...
hbr.org
- Reaction score
- 17,810
- Points
- 1,010
That offends me…At the risk of offending @SeaKingTacco there's alot of work being done by consultants, and others, to better understand and address the issue of toxic leadership in the workplace. It's far bigger issue than just within the CAF, of course, which reflects the macro issues within society to a certain extent, especially as it pertains to the ongoing struggle to build more diverse workplaces. Viz:
Leaders, Stop Rewarding Toxic Rock Stars
Research has shown that toxic cultures are extremely costly for companies, and toxic culture was the single biggest predictor of attrition during the first six months of the Great Resignation. “Toxic rock stars,” or bullies who evade consequences because they deliver results, can ruin the workplace experience for most employees, but they’re particularly harmful to women of color. In the midst of the fight for talent, at a time when the link between diversity and better business outcomes is finally being understood and when external stakeholders are demanding accountability on diversity metrics, company leaders must look carefully at the wide-ranging impacts of tolerating and rewarding high-performing bullies at the expense of culture, particularly as they impact women of color.
Leaders, Stop Rewarding Toxic Rock Stars
Research has shown that toxic cultures are extremely costly for companies, and toxic culture was the single biggest predictor of attrition during the first six months of the Great Resignation. “Toxic rock stars,” or bullies who evade consequences because they deliver results, can ruin the...
Seriously. I love consultants. Sometimes.
But, we should be putting our own “Profession of Arms” pants on here as the CAF, and policing ourselves. Properly.
- Reaction score
- 10,634
- Points
- 1,260
While the talk on toxic leaders is worthwhile, I wish we could address the narrative somewhat. For every toxic leader in the CAF, there are probably five good ones (completely unscientific). I've dealt with some toxic leaders, and they pop up for various reasons, but fortunately, that's an infrequent occurrence, but I see good leadership everyday. But you'll never see news articles about the good deeds our leaders do on a daily basis. In the last month, I've seen leaders:
- Go out of their way to assist a member who lost an immediate family member;
- Take their time to do daily checks on a member with mental health issues;
- Take personal time to mentor and support another member on physical fitness when the member was having issues;
- Design engaging training, over and above what was called for, because they believe the soldiers deserve world class training, and then deliver that training which was noted by some participants to be "the best they've done in their time in the CAF."
- Reaction score
- 17,810
- Points
- 1,010
Thank-you.
- Reaction score
- 6,516
- Points
- 1,040
I think this is a great point, there is a lot of really good daily things on the go that isn't necessarily exceptional. The really bad and really good ones stick out in your memory, but the generally solid and consistently reasonable ones don't jump to mind.
Having said that, I've had probably a dozen solid bosses, a few really good ones, and one really bad one in the CAF, and the really bad one had me applying for jobs with the intent to release, so doesn't necessarily take much. (At the time I stayed in because I had some great peers and mentors in the crew that made me realize I wasn't actually a soup sandwhich and my boss was junk).
Agreed. And sometimes it can be a consistant amount of good non exceptional things that make people feel like they have good leaders.
- Reaction score
- 6,516
- Points
- 1,040
Yeah, I'll take a consistent and consistently decent person any day of the week (as a boss, peer or subordinate).
Personally I find that good leadership ripples up and down the chain as well, where bad primarily rolls downwards (with some terrible leaders doing a good Jekyl/Hyde act to keep the BGHs impressed). Looking back think having good leaders below me made me step up more, and when I had a bad boss it was kind of exhausting to not pass that down to the team, so was glad to have peers to lean on (and I think also a team that saw what was going on and helped me through it).
- Reaction score
- 4,618
- Points
- 1,260
Good point - as in much of life, 95-99% of the keeners suffer because of the 1-5% of weiners
Good point - as in much of life, 95-99% of the keeners suffer because of the 1-5% of weiners
Like anything else involving human beings, quality of leadership tends to follow a normal distribution. About 80% of your leaders will be adequate to excellent; 10% will be truly outstanding, and 10% will be terrible.
The real challenge is to find ways to get rid of the bad leaders, while also allowing the outstanding ones to shine.
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
- 33,680
- Points
- 1,160
Grow a spine and deal with toxic leaders... it's a good book
You manage managers. Through training and experience you’ve learned how to manage tasks and teams to achieve objectives and get deliverables out the door. But how much training have you had on how to manage unmanageable managers, otherwise known as abrasive bosses?
More often than not, upper management tends to avoid intervening, but not because they don’t care—it’s because they’re afraid. These fears fall into two categories: the fear of being harmed by the abrasive boss (“If we confront him he’ll quit and we can’t afford to lose his expertise” or “What if she sues us?”) and the fear of doing harm to the abrasive boss (“I don’t want to hurt her—she’s been loyal and works harder than anyone else” or “He’s already got family problems—I don’t want to add to his burden.”) Companies also fail to intervene because they view the situation as hopeless: “He denies that he’s the problem—he blames everything on our tight deadlines” or “We’ve talked to him/her, but things only improved for a few weeks.” It’s also not uncommon for management to avoid dealing with the problem of an abrasive boss through the defense mechanisms of denial (“She’s just got some difficult employees”), minimization (“He doesn’t blow up that often”) or delay (“It won’t be long before he retires.”)
www.cio.com
Taming the Abrasive Manager: Words from the Boss Whisperer
Bully boss in your office? Here are some tips and advice for senior management.
You manage managers. Through training and experience you’ve learned how to manage tasks and teams to achieve objectives and get deliverables out the door. But how much training have you had on how to manage unmanageable managers, otherwise known as abrasive bosses?
“It Only Hurts When I Work”
Abrasive bosses rub their staff the wrong way with their aggressive management styles, displaying behaviors ranging from mild offense to open attack. The words and actions of these individuals create interpersonal friction that grates on subordinates, peers and even their superiors, grinding away at trust and motivation, and ultimately disrupting the smooth flow of work. Abrasive bosses can inflict deep wounds and intense suffering in employees, and the pain of working for or with an abrasive boss is usually felt by the company as well, eroding effectiveness and paralyzing productivity. (For more on reporting up to a bully boss, see How to Deal With Bully Bosses.)Dollars and Sense
Abrasive bosses can cause endless headaches for their bosses, who struggle to rein them in and stanch the flow of complaints from distressed employees. Tolerating abrasive bosses is expensive when calculated in the costs of absenteeism, lowered productivity, attrition of valued employees and harassment litigation. And senior managers who fail to intervene with an abrasive boss will be viewed by employees as tacitly condoning the abuse: “They’ve let this stuff go on for years—they don’t do anything about him because they don’t care anything about us—it’s all about making a buck.”More often than not, upper management tends to avoid intervening, but not because they don’t care—it’s because they’re afraid. These fears fall into two categories: the fear of being harmed by the abrasive boss (“If we confront him he’ll quit and we can’t afford to lose his expertise” or “What if she sues us?”) and the fear of doing harm to the abrasive boss (“I don’t want to hurt her—she’s been loyal and works harder than anyone else” or “He’s already got family problems—I don’t want to add to his burden.”) Companies also fail to intervene because they view the situation as hopeless: “He denies that he’s the problem—he blames everything on our tight deadlines” or “We’ve talked to him/her, but things only improved for a few weeks.” It’s also not uncommon for management to avoid dealing with the problem of an abrasive boss through the defense mechanisms of denial (“She’s just got some difficult employees”), minimization (“He doesn’t blow up that often”) or delay (“It won’t be long before he retires.”)
Taming the Abrasive Manager: Words from the Boss Whisperer
Bully boss in your office? Here are some tips and advice for senior management.
www.cio.com
Similar threads
