6 Jan 2020 U.S. Events (Split from A Deeply Fractured US)

[Colin Parkinson]

The photo of this intruder carrying flex cuffs along with FBI confirmation of at least two explosive devices in DC today certainly supports your point:

You might want to clarify that this individual was not confirmed to be carrying explosive devices, these are two-three separate incidents according to the report

 

[MJP]

I post so rarely in these things because I largely hate this part of Army.ca but I can't resist a few comments.

"Government" is not just a bunch of legislators. It's not just a physical space in which they meet. It's the institutions, processes, procedures and mechanisms that allow for law to be created, actioned, and enforced. The laws that define how that power is handed from administration to administration are among the core underpinnings of any nation with the rule of law. There's a reason these are procedures that are often constitutionally enshrined.

The Capitol was where this happened. The legislators were those who were at physical risk. But the objective of the attack was the process that was taking place. This was an attempt to force not a pause but a halt to the peaceful transition of power to the winner of the election. While I tend to be quick to sneeringly dismiss such things at the small scale as mere tantrums, this was much more than that. This was an assault on democracy. Trump has incited and enabled this. What did you think "stand back and stand by" meant? What do you think the consequences are when the president himself spends weeks relentlessly lying about the election being stolen?

The protests over the past year have been a threat to peace and order at the local level, but they in no way have been a fundamental threat to the health of America's democracy. There were many violent and criminal actions, and they were part of an effort to demand that legislators debate and pass laws to achieve their ends. This, however, was such a threat. This was a rejection of the proper processes under the rule of law for contesting and adjudicating electoral disputes over which the courts have spoken literally 62 times plus appeals.

A line has been crossed and things flirted with that are now suddenly within the realm of the possible for these malignant malcontents. Not one of the grievances has gone away. None of the body armour or rifles sitting in basements have been discarded. There are literally people who in certain corners of social media have been pleading with Trump for weeks to 'give the word' and they will rise up violently. The police trying to hold off the riot today were being told "you're lucky we didn't bring our ARs". There was nothing I saw today that convinces me that some of those people, if they could have gotten access to legislators, would not have done them physical harm.

Enough is enough. The experiment of electing, empowering, and enabling Trump has failed. Critical damage was inflicted on the health of America's peaceful political institutions today. If you're unwilling to see the distinction between this and other actions of violent social unrest, that is a wilful failure of intellectual honesty on your part.

That was a post of beauty

I am always amazed that people can't differentiate protests that have legitimate goals like fighting systemic racism and what we are seeing right now. No rational person would say that the often violent civil rights protests of the 1950/60s were not meaningful ways of moving the goalposts towards ending segregation and discrimination. That the means while still not conducive to polite society were justified the end. That is how I think the BLM movement will be seen in the future as well. I can't say that I am a fan of protests that get violent for any cause but I can rationalize how systemic issues can build a level of frustration especially when a marginalized aspect of society feels that the only way they have gotten justice was to be loud and unruly

I can't say the same for Trump's crowd of misfits, they have no moral highground nor are they protesting anything meaningful. They are fueled by hatred and bigotry that has been feed to them by the current POTUS to the detriment of democracy and democratic processes of the worst order. They are in essence sore losers because their leader is a sore loser.

I hope for America and Americans they can get past this episode without further degradation of their great country's ideals

brihard, we have to agree to disagree, I see these as a symbolic protest, there was no way that this could bring down the government. However the large scale riots and protests are a far more dangerous thing as they erode the benefits of democracy and in many of those areas government is becoming irrelevant as it can not administer it's services and cannot enforce it's mandate on a day to day basis.

Disagree all you want but there was no legitimate social means or other goal to the actions of today. Yes I agree that it would not stop the government in of itself but the fact that this has been fueled by POTUS with the very goal of sowing discord into base democratic processes is unacceptable. BLM or any of the other social justice protests were not there to overthrow democratic process, they wanted the democratic processes to work for them.

 

[Pelorus]

The woman who was shot was Ashli Babbit, a 14-year veteran, who served four tours with the US Air Force, and was a high level security official throughout her time in service.

14 years apparently wasn't enough to realize that attempting to climb through a door being barricaded by police with weapons drawn while wearing a Trump flag as a cape was a poor idea.

A quick browse of her social media shows that she was as deep as it gets into QAnon nonsense and more recently the absolute conspiracy theory garbage being peddled by former Trump lawyer Lin Wood. Details here:

Pro-Trump Woman Shot and Killed at U.S. Capitol Retweeted Attorney Lin Wood's 'Must Be Done' List Before She Died

A woman shot and killed during violent protests aimed at stopping the certification of Joe Biden as the next President of the United States has been identified as 35-year-old Ashli Babbitt. That's according to reporting by KUSI-TV, an independent television station in San Diego, Calif., which...

lawandcrime.com

 

[brihard]

The woman who was shot was Ashli Babbit, a 14-year veteran, who served four tours with the US Air Force, and was a high level security official throughout her time in service.

Not the first nor last former service member to die in violent confrontation with the police in the course of committing crimes. Sedition is outside the norm but not unprecedented.

A quick browse of her social media shows that she was as deep as it gets into QAnon nonsense and more recently the absolute conspiracy theory garbage being peddled by former Trump lawyer Lin Wood.

A Lin Wood retweet is about as ignominious an epitaph as I can think of. I believe she once served her country honourably, but ultimately she died in an act of sedition in the front rank of a failed insurrection, and her family got to find out about it on the news.

 

[Altair]

brihard, we have to agree to disagree, I see these as a symbolic protest, there was no way that this could bring down the government. However the large scale riots and protests are a far more dangerous thing as they erode the benefits of democracy and in many of those areas government is becoming irrelevant as it can not administer it's services and cannot enforce it's mandate on a day to day basis.

So a country has a election.

The incumbent president loses.

Incumbent claims fraud. Election officials disagree.

Court challenges are launched. Courts say there is no evidence.

Incumbent turns to local leaders to change the result. Local officials say that there are no grounds.

Incumbent pressures legislatures and vice president to overturn the result. Some legislatures after the incumbents support agree, vice president does not.

Incumbent says for loyal followers to congregatate in the capital the day the election is certified. Tens of thousands show up.

Incumbent repeatedly says to stop the steal, how there is massive fraud, and incumbents supporters storm the building where elected officials are going through the certification process. Elected officials must flee as security forces give up trying to control the crowd.

Everything I said could describe Venezuela, Haiti, Iraq, Afghanistan, Burma,Nicaragua, Congo, or any other poor country with weak institutions.

But that has been the USA for the past few weeks. So in that sense, no. This goes far past symbolic protest

 

[Jarnhamar]

Everything I said could describe Venezuela, Haiti, Iraq, Afghanistan, Burma,Nicaragua, Congo, or any other poor country with weak institutions.

But that has been the USA for the past few weeks.

In other words a perfect time to cut back on security.

Both sides wanted this to happen and both benefitted from it.

 

[Brad Sallows]

What did you think "stand back and stand by" meant?

Two possibilities: 1) Trump, as he commonly does, misspoke while asking his supporters to lay off. 2) Trump, as he usually does not, spoke with extreme precision and clarity and issued unambiguous veiled instructions to his supporters.

 

[RangerRay]

Impeach. Convict. Indict. Now.

 

[Altair]

Impeach. Convict. Indict. Now.

Hate to burst your bubble, but 132 republican members of the house voted in favor of the objections of the election results.

After all that happened today.

Rest assured, the republican senate wouldn't vote to convict.

2 more weeks, seems like forever but not that far away.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Aaand let the false flag accusations begin ....

As an angry mob stormed the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday, vandalizing offices, occupying the House and Senate chambers and sending legislators and staffers running for cover, several of President Trump’s key allies knew just where to cast the blame: on the loose-knit movement of left-wing agitators known as antifa, a favorite bogeyman of Trump and the right wing for the last several years.

They were undeterred by video showing rioters in MAGA hats, carrying Trump 2020 flags, descending on the Capitol from a rally near the White House where Trump himself had exhorted them to disrupt the counting of Electoral College votes submitted by the states, the final step in certifying Joe Biden’s victory. To them, that just showed that the insurrection was actually a leftist false-flag operation meant to embarrass the president’s peaceful supporters.

One of the first to push this narrative was Rep. Mo Brooks, an Alabama Republican and part of a small group of Trump loyalists who’d pledged to challenge the Electoral College results from several states during Wednesday’s joint session of Congress in an ill-fated final attempt to undo Trump’s defeat. “Rumor: ANTIFA fascists in backwards MAGA hats,” Brooks tweeted from the locked-down Capitol where he was taking cover from the mob. “Time will tell what truth is.” ...

Two possibilities: 1) Trump, as he commonly does, misspoke while asking his supporters to lay off. 2) Trump, as he usually does not, spoke with extreme precision and clarity and issued unambiguous deniably ambiguous veiled instructions to his supporters.

A third option there.

 

[Eaglelord17]

If we had protestors try to storm our Parliament fully expect someone would get shot, actually pretty surprised at the restraint the on duty cops showed. Hopefully they can get home safe, hug their family and get some extra paid time off.

As an aside, noticed pretty much none of these yahoos wore mask, so the whole thing could be a massive super spreader event as well.

We have had quite a few major security breaches for our Parliamentary buildings. In recent years a lunatic with a lever action storm Parliament, in 1984 a Reservist with a C1 SMG stormed Quebec's parliament, and in 1966 there was a bombing in Ottawa's Parliament. I don't think our security is much tighter than theirs is...

 

[Edward Campbell]

...

So if everything is above board (Dem side) why are they so determined not to allow an investigation? If there is no fraud, then allow the inspections to take place and prove Trump's team wrong.

...

Because, generally, you can't prove a negative. Initially, President Trump alleged various specific irregularities and officials investigated and found nothing; judges agreed. Case after case was closed; legal door after legal door was slammed shut. Then he moved to the negative saying, essentially, "people love me so much that I should not have lost, there must be somethig wrong." That's a belief, not an allegation of a specific problem, how can anyone investigate that? That's when the whole thing moved from the sublime comprehensible to the ridiulous.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I am always amazed that people can't differentiate protests that have legitimate goals like fighting systemic racism and what we are seeing right now.

The people in the cheap seats of life who don't have a clear view of the stage don't draw those distinctions. The well-reasoned nuances used to explain why one protest may be tolerated and another may not are lost on them, particularly when the former is manifestly more violent and produces more overt threats to life and limb than the latter. Stir in the obvious political agendas, and the picture loses more focus. And of course, intentions never excuse means and outcomes.

Differential treatment - the appearance of anarcho-tyranny - sets up the next grievances. A rational and responsible person should want to break cycles of dysfunction, and be willing to be the one to sacrifice advantage and/or satisfaction to do so.

Ditto going after Trump. Best to just let him self-destruct, and stand aside while he does so.

Trump and his supporters are mostly responsible, but these expressions of rage - and future ones - were and are preventable by other people, not least by not adding fuel and oxygen to the fires. Those who claim to be adults must stop goading children. Pelosi recently blew her cool at a reporter upon receiving questions she didn't like. Biden routinely loses his temper when confronted by accusations and questions he doesn't want to hear. Hillary Clinton has been a little bit off ever since her big election loss. Stress can derange a mind; unnecessary stress can unnecessarily derange a mind. Trump manifestly hasn't the kind of disciplined mind to shrug off four years of the bullshit harassment set in motion by Clinton and the Democrats. It was always counterproductive and risky to add more stress to an already stressful job, but of course the thing to do when you doubt the mind in charge of the nuclear codes is to pressure that mind unnecessarily for partisan political purposes.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Because, generally, you can't prove a negative.

That's not the issue. Election authorities followed the processes established and concluded nothing was sufficiently wrong to swing an election result (the examiners examined themselves); the Trump team believes the search hasn't been broad enough and either thinks it knows where to look or perhaps just wants to go on a fishing expedition. The team has asked to go through the evidence/data themselves, and been refused. The best way to settle things conclusively would be to allow them to directly examine whatever ballots and related information they want to - nothing to hide, so why object, right? Show them the warehouse full of ballots and invite them to knock themselves out.

But I suppose everyone with two neurons to rub together realizes that if enough irregularities exist somewhere to overturn a result and the irregularities are found, the whole can of worms must be reopened in the close states; and some of those people are undoubtedly worried that voting controls got loosey-goosey enough this time around that they can't be sure no such irregularities exist.

 

[Remius]

The best way to settle things conclusively would be to allow them to directly examine whatever ballots and related information they want to - nothing to hide, so why object, right? Show them the warehouse full of ballots and invite them to knock themselves out.

Sadly no, it is not. It won’t matter how much evidence, proof and obvious whatevers you show them. They’ll just go down the next conspiracy rabbit hole they can find. These things have been checked and rechecked. It won’t matter because like a toddler having a fit, they won’t be happy until they get the result they want. Facts and truth be damned.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Overall update ....

The nation's lawmakers took to their electoral duties late Wednesday amid broken glass and smashed doors in the U.S. Capitol following an historic day of havoc wrought by pro-Trump rioters who breached the building in hopes of thwarting President-elect Joe Biden's victory. Vice President Mike Pence affirmed Biden's win early Thursday.

Thousands of rioters had gathered at the National Mall to protest the election results. At a campaign-style rally about an hour before the mob broke through police lines at the Capitol, Trump had urged them to go to the building.

D.C. Police Chief Robert Contee said the chaotic day included four fatalities: a woman who was shot by the U.S. Capitol Police, as well as three others — two men and one woman — who died in “separate medical emergencies.” Police had made "in excess of 52 arrests," including 26 on U.S. Capitol grounds, he said.

At least 14 Metropolitan Police Department Officers were injured during the demonstrations, Contee said. Two pipe bombs — one from the DNC and one from the RNC — were also recovered by police, he said ...

... and D.C. curfew until Thursday

... Mayor Muriel Bowser ordered a citywide curfew for the District of Columbia from 6 pm on Wednesday, January 6, until 6 am on Thursday, January 7.

During the hours of the curfew, no person, other than persons designated by the Mayor, shall walk, bike, run, loiter, stand, or motor by car or other mode of transport upon any street, alley, park, or other public place within the District.

The curfew imposed by the Mayor’s Order shall not apply to essential workers, including working media with their outlet-issued credentials, when engaged in essential functions, including travel to and from their essential work.

 

[The Bread Guy]

This, early AM, from a Whitehouse spokesperson:

 

[daftandbarmy]

Hate to burst your bubble, but 132 republican members of the house voted in favor of the objections of the election results.

After all that happened today.

Rest assured, the republican senate wouldn't vote to convict.

2 more weeks, seems like forever but not that far away.

Has anyone started a countdown clock yet?

 

[Navy_Pete]

We have had quite a few major security breaches for our Parliamentary buildings. In recent years a lunatic with a lever action storm Parliament, in 1984 a Reservist with a C1 SMG stormed Quebec's parliament, and in 1966 there was a bombing in Ottawa's Parliament. I don't think our security is much tighter than theirs is...

I agree that on a normal day both locations have security issues, but I would fully expect security around Parliament to be significantly increased if there was expected to be a large protest against a vote or something specific going on in the chambers that day.

For comparison, they started out with about 350 national guards yesterday working on directing traffic yesterday and a relatively light police presence at barricades at the base of the steps. For the BLM protests in the summer they had 5000 national guard troops, a large number of federal agents (including bureau of prisons, which is weird), helicopters and heavy police presence, which kept the crowd a block away, and deployed tear gas, hoses and other methods.

The big difference was Trump's recent appointee blocked the calls for National Guard deploying ahead of time, and they didn't bring in the crazy number of federal agencies, and it left the Capitol vulnerable to the rioters.

Even when they did deploy after the fact, there was only about 50 arrests, compared to thousands at the BLM protest. It is a massive disparity in both the initial deployment and tactical employment. If there was any real doubt that there is an obvious double standard in law enforcement in the US depending on the colour of your skin this lays it pretty bare.

This whole thing is just crazy and fully predictable; these groups had previously stormed state legislatures while armed, some of them tried to kidnap a Governor, and widely believe frankly insane conspiracy theories. And they were encouraged by the President to disrupt it, while he was calling his Vice President a traitor for not doing something he has no actual authority to do anyway. It's the worst kind of banana republic chaos, but happening in a nuclear power with the most powerful armed forces on the planet.

 

[OceanBonfire]

I noticed one of the early images of a lawmaker comforting another showing up frequently and then the articles show up:

Former Army Ranger Rep. Jason Crow was the last lawmaker to leave the chamber when Trump rioters stormed the US Capitol