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6 Jan 2020 U.S. Events (Split from A Deeply Fractured US)

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No question to all of that, but not my point. Impeachment is also being used for petty reasons. If none of the politicians involved had uttered those reasons, we could all pretend that this was being done with high-minded intentions. It is not.

Regardless, from all that is being done, said, and proposed right now, "Unity" is dead. Those who are not to be punished outright are to be made to bend the knee. Either the administration resists revenge, and convinces its party in Congress to support it, or it does not.
 
Cloud Cover said:
FWIW these impeachment proceedings while entertaining and “feel good” do not seem to meet the constitutional threshold of procedural fairness or natural justice. He does have the right to have counsel, call and challenge evidence etc. Not like a court, but not a star chamber either. To be clear I don’t really care what they do, but I am concerned about the next, and the next, and the next. This is the equivalent of a political mob execution, something he may deserve but also something that at the same time is beneath the United States of America whose shining light of decency has turned into a dumpster fire.

“The lamps are going out” as the saying went.
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My understanding (however limited that may be) is that, so far it has followed the process. The impeachment starts in the House and is simply a debate and vote. In the past it has been based on the works of special counsels or judiciary committees, but it seems in the instance the House determined that the 'evidence' was widely public and sufficient for their vote. It then moves to the Senate were a 'trial' is held presided by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. It is similar to police swearing a criminal information against you - you don't get to introduce evidence or argue against it; that happens in court. In a sense, he has been impeached, but it has yet to be confirmed.
 
There once was a time that conservatives believed personal responsibility and holding people accountable for their actions. Those that bought the “It’s someone else’s fault I did that!” argument we’re usually on the left. One of the reasons I identified as conservative.

Now, we see a whole raft of Republicans and their propagandists in the right-wing media ecosystem saying exactly this with regards to Trump and the insurrectionists. “It’s not our fault!”

Yes, it is their fault. They spread misinformation, propaganda and lies in the service of an incompetent with authoritarian tendencies (I am feeling charitable right now). What do you think would happen when you tell a large crowd of a personality cult that the only reason their great leader lost was because of election fraud committed on a scale never seen before? In that case, what other option is there other than violence?

At the very least, they were pumped up to intimidate the VP to break his constitutional duty, which Trump and his enablers said Pence could legally do.

That a structurally sound gallows was built, people were actively looking for Pence and Pelosi with flex-cuffs, and they had no problem finding the parliamentary offices (which, I am told, are not easy to find) should make everyone concerned.

All that to say a lot of people, including Trump, have to be held to account. Thus far, he has shown no contrition or remorse for his actions. “Unity” or “healing” should not be a factor in not holding someone accountable for seditious behaviour. The Republicans would be baying for blood if this were a leftist putsch egged on and promoted by AOC.
 
More charges - this from the FBI ....
Seven individuals have been charged in federal court in the District of Columbia in connection with crimes committed at the U.S. Capitol in Washington, D.C., on Wednesday, January 6, 2021.

The defendants and charges are outlined below:
  1. Robert Keith Packer was charged with knowingly entering or remaining in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority and violent entry or disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds. Packer was arrested today in Virginia.
  2. Nicholas Rodean was charged with one count of knowingly entering or remaining in any restricted building or grounds without law authority; one count of knowingly, with intent to impede government business or official functions, engaging in disorderly conduct on capitol grounds; and one count of and parading, demonstrating, or picketing in the capitol buildings. Rodean was arrested today in Washington, D.C.
  3. Aaron Mostofsky, was charged with one felony count of theft of government property. He was arrested in New York City yesterday.
  4. William Pepe was charged with one count of knowingly entering or remaining in any restricted building or grounds without law authority. Pepe was arrested yesterday in New York.
  5. Andrew Williams was charged with one count of unlawful entry of a restricted building and one count of disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds. Williams was arrested in Florida yesterday.
  6. Josiah Colt, of Meridian, Idaho, was charged with knowingly entering or remaining in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority and violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds. Colt was arrested yesterday in Idaho.
  7. Kevin Loftus was charged with one count of knowingly entering or remaining in any restricted building or grounds without law authority and one count of violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds. Loftus was arrested yesterday in Wisconsin.
In addition, three defendants previously charged by criminal complaint have been indicted in federal court in the District of Columbia:
  1. Lonnie Coffman
  2. Jacob Chansley
  3. Mark Leffingwell
Defendant, Richard Barnett, who was arrested on Jan. 8, 2021, was charged in an amended complaint yesterday with one count of knowingly entering or remaining in any restricted building or grounds without law authority; one count of violent entry and disorderly conduct on capitol grounds; and one count of theft of public money, property, or records.

Additional complaints have been submitted in federal court and investigations are ongoing. As previously reported, approximately 40 individuals were arrested and charged in Superior Court with offenses including, but not limited to, unlawful entry, curfew violations, and firearms-related crimes.

The cases are being prosecuted by the U.S Attorney’s Office for the District of Columbia and the Counterterrorism Section of the Department of Justice’s National Security Division. The cases are being investigated by the FBI’s Washington Field Office, the U.S. Capitol Police Department, and the Metropolitan Police Department ...
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Links to various court/arrest documents are at the bottom of the FBI news release.

Couple of more here ....
Kevin Seefried and Hunter Seefried were charged today in federal court in the District of Columbia in connection with the riots at the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday, Jan. 6, 2021.

Kevin Seefried and Hunter Seefried each were charged by complaint with one count of knowingly entering or remaining in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority, one count of violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds, and one count of depredation of government property. Both defendants were taken into custody in Delaware today. It is alleged that during the events at the U.S. Capitol, Kevin Seefried and Hunter Seefried entered the Senate Building through a broken window and, shortly thereafter, Kevin Seefried was photographed holding a Confederate Battle flag inside the Capitol Building ...
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Fishbone Jones said:
It appears, according to the FBI, that the riot was pre-planned. Warnings were sent and ignored by Capitol police.

FBI report warned of ‘war’ at Capitol, contradicting claims there was no indication of looming violence​


If true, it would seem the speech had nothing to do with it.
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if you dropped a cigarette on your couch, causing it to smoulder and ignite, and you then returned and poured gasoline on it, would you contend that the gasoline had nothing to do with the fire in your living room because it was already burning?

Aside from that, the Article of Impeachment is not limited to solely his conduct on January 6th, nor is it the total prosecution of the alleged ‘high crime’. A great deal will be brought to bear in the senate trial, painting a picture of deliberate incitement going back over months. Dozens of lost court cases will build the proof of his constant self-serving lying about the myth of the ‘stolen’ election around which he built an insurrection.
 
brihard said:
if you dropped a cigarette on your couch, causing it to smoulder and ignite, and you then returned and poured gasoline on it, would you contend that the gasoline had nothing to do with the fire in your living room because it was already burning?

Aside from that, the Article of Impeachment is not limited to solely his conduct on January 6th, nor is it the total prosecution of the alleged ‘high crime’. A great deal will be brought to bear in the senate trial, painting a picture of deliberate incitement going back over months. Dozens of lost court cases will build the proof of his constant self-serving lying about the myth of the ‘stolen’ election around which he built an insurrection.
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Considering they only had a few weeks at best to put their case together and to be frank, Trumps legal teams seemed to be made up of a few high end lawyers well past their prime with no real support staff. That makes for a hard case to prove. To gather such evidence, you really need about 6 months of evidence gathering and preparation of court documents. I know of several Federal cases here where they rushed in the beginning due to circumstance, only to have a case unravel on them, due to poor prep work.
 
Colin Parkinson said:
Considering they only had a few weeks at best to put their case together and to be frank, Trumps legal teams seemed to be made up of a few high end lawyers well past their prime with no real support staff. That makes for a hard case to prove. To gather such evidence, you really need about 6 months of evidence gathering and preparation of court documents. I know of several Federal cases here where they rushed in the beginning due to circumstance, only to have a case unravel on them, due to poor prep work.
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I'll give you 'well past their prime'. Not so sure about 'high end'. I think the key criteria was loyalty, not capability.

In any case, the fate of Trump's failed lawfare approach will not be key to province the article being brought to the senate, it's just a useful buttress. The prosecution will focus on his repeated and blatant banging of the 'stolen election' drum despite lacking any credible evidence, and the various manners in which he amped up his supporters. I'm sure 'Be there. It will be wild." will be a choice quote, along with various other utterances suggesting that action by his supporters was critical to achieve the results he was unable to achieve by any legal means.

He wound up a mob, and he did it deliberately. He's responsible for the actions that mob took in line with his stated intent.
 
Anyone who doesn't think impeachment is not going to cause more and more morons to go full stupid is a freaking idiot.

Seriously?? Mr. Trump sliding away quietly with as little fanfare as possible will probably turn the stove down. Not that the media and their Chinese masters want that.

Is revenge is really worth more years of drama plus turning him into a martyr? The complete lack of understanding of human nature is appalling....
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Anyone who doesn't think impeachment is not going to cause more and more morons to go full stupid is a freaking idiot.

Seriously?? Mr. Trump sliding away quietly with as little fanfare as possible will probably turn the stove down. Not that the media and their Chinese masters want that.

Is revenge is really worth more years of drama plus turning him into a martyr? The complete lack of understanding of human nature is appalling....
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It's called accountability and consequences, Bruce. Will some individuals choose to be idiots as a result? Yes, likely. Then they can play that game too. Should politicians be immune from the consequences of their actions if a subset of their followers are sufficiently raucous and violent? I don't believe so. In fact I believe that preserving the rule of law makes it all the more important to press forward even in the face of opposition from some idiots who may choose to break the law to voice their displeasure. What you seem to be suggesting is not something I can differentiate from public authorities caving to rioters in other contexts. Do we not pursue those suspected of crimes now because people show up to protest, or if some radicalize and get violent? I'd be very surprised if that's your take. I think you're letting partisan bias sway you on this one towards a position you wouldn't normally take.

If the state of the world today has some people so pissed off that they're willing to be violent in opposition to due processes of law, fine. More job security for both of us.
 
brihard said:
Do we not pursue those suspected of crimes now because people show up to protest, or if some radicalize and get violent?
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Could it be considered along the same lines as police calling off a high speed pursuit, or hanging back, to not put bystanders at risk of being injured by a fleeing suspect?

Asking because I have no idea, Is impeaching Trump this week the only opportunity the US has to hold him accountable for his behavior and actions? Is he protected and untouchable after the inauguration?
 
Then let the law deal with him if its a law thing.........this is political, NOTHING ELSE! He's gone in a week.

No president will now make it through his/her term unless they control both houses. Like Rough Trade sang many years ago "you gave me those weapons, I feel free to use them." Again, only morons or revenge seekers, want this to happen. Those 300 plus million who didn't run into the Govt. building? They just want their new Govt. in place to carry things on that are actually important, like covid, economy, etc....
 

BREAKING: BLM anarchist arrested in connection to Capitol riots​

Black Lives Matter activist John Sullivan, 25, who was caught in a photograph of the Capitol Hill riot on Jan. 6, was arrested Thursday for participating "knowingly and willfully" in illegal conduct when he breached the Capitol, according to a sworn affidavit.

thepostmillennial.com

BREAKING: BLM anarchist activist arrested in connection to Capitol riots

Black Lives Matter activist John Sullivan, 25, who was caught in a photograph of the Capitol Hill riot on Jan. 6, was arrested Thursday for participating “knowingly and willfully” in illegal conduct when he breached the Capitol, according to a sworn affidavit.
thepostmillennial.com thepostmillennial.com

Affidavit attached listing his transgressions.

I wonder what part of Trump's speech incited him to action.
 

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