33 CBG ICE issue in the works

[brihard]

An email's come down my chain of command over the past couple of days. Apparently LFCA is polling all the uniq RQMSs to get sizes, stock numbers, and amounts for ICE kit issue within our brigade. They're looking for the info by January 25th, so safe money is that within a couple months 33CBG reserves will be wearing the CADPAT Goretex.

Has ICE been completely issued for the RegF? I was under the impression some units had not yet seen it.

 

[Matt_Fisher]

Are you referring to the Air Force ICE Jacket which is a waterproof-breathable shell garment?  From my understanding, that hasn't even been fielded to Reg. F Army units yet.

Or, are you referring to the Cadpat version of the current IECS jacket (the OD 'Gore-Tex' Jacket)?  These are currently in use in the Reg Force Army component, and are now being delivered to the Res.

Incidentally, none of this stuff (ICE or IECS) is actually using Gore-Tex or Gore material, even though it is commonly referred to as Gore-Tex by the troops.  Stedfast, www.stedfast.com, is the company producing the waterproof-breathable laminate for the fabrics used on these jackets, not Gore (which is why you don't see any Gore-Tex labelling on the IECS jacket).

 

[BKells]

Are you referring to the Air Force ICE Jacket which is a waterproof-breathable shell garment?  From my understanding, that hasn't even been fielded to Reg. F Army units yet.

Or, are you referring to the Cadpat version of the current IECS jacket (the OD 'Gore-Tex' Jacket)?  These are currently in use in the Reg Force Army component, and are now being delivered to the Res.

Incidentally, none of this stuff (ICE or IECS) is actually using Gore-Tex or Gore material, even though it is commonly referred to as Gore-Tex by the troops.  Stedfast, www.stedfast.com, is the company producing the waterproof-breathable laminate for the fabrics used on these jackets, not Gore (which is why you don't see any Gore-Tex labelling on the IECS jacket).

Interesting factoid, Mr. Fisher. That's one of those 'zings' I can keep holstered to quiet would-be adversaries.

An email's come down my chain of command over the past couple of days. Apparently LFCA is polling all the uniq RQMSs to get sizes, stock numbers, and amounts for ICE kit issue within our brigade. They're looking for the info by January 25th, so safe money is that within a couple months 33CBG reserves will be wearing the CADPAT Goretex.

Has ICE been completely issued for the RegF? I was under the impression some units had not yet seen it.

A couple of months is not 'safe money'. Late next year is more realistic.

 

[brihard]

Are you referring to the Air Force ICE Jacket which is a waterproof-breathable shell garment?  From my understanding, that hasn't even been fielded to Reg. F Army units yet.

Or, are you referring to the Cadpat version of the current IECS jacket (the OD 'Gore-Tex' Jacket)?  These are currently in use in the Reg Force Army component, and are now being delivered to the Res.

Incidentally, none of this stuff (ICE or IECS) is actually using Gore-Tex or Gore material, even though it is commonly referred to as Gore-Tex by the troops.  Stedfast, www.stedfast.com, is the company producing the waterproof-breathable laminate for the fabrics used on these jackets, not Gore (which is why you don't see any Gore-Tex labelling on the IECS jacket).

I could well stand corected- I'm not sure. The email topic, however, is 'issue of ice at 33CBG', and that email title has been passed down from G4 supply, I think at brigade level.  Could I fire a couple stock numbers at you and get confirmation? Combat coat size 6432 has a stock number of 21-921-6843 in the list attached to the email. The stock number for ICE combat coat (generic) is 21-921-6837 on the CTS website, adn the list of stock number sin the emial run from '6843 to '6869 in the email for the combat coat iteam. I'm sure entirely how the number conventions work, so if someone else wants to check I'd appreciate it. The (not)Gore-Tex wind pants in ICE start at number 21-921-7022, and the email lists from '7025 to '7045, so I think it could well be that we're getting the real stuff. It wouldn't make sense to issue CADPAT IECS if ICE is to eventually be the standard anyway.

Kells, you could well be right. Maybe I'm too optimistic. I'd have to think though that they wouldn't ask for measurements unless they were just about ready to send out the stocks- if they didn't send them til next year the numbers and sizes would all be FUBAR due to troops moving in or out.

 

[dutchie]

Why can't they make a simple under-the-shirt shell out of REAL Gore-tex? Why always do it on the cheap with 15 different garments (2 jackets, a parka, tobogan pants that no-one uses, wind pants, etc.)?

Just one Gore-tex liner. That's it.

 

[Blakey]

Incidentally, none of this stuff (ICE or IECS) is actually using Gore-Tex or Gore material, even though it is commonly referred to as Gore-Tex by the troops.

Actually Matt, both the IECS and the new ICE have Goretex membranes.

Edit:

Stedfast, www.stedfast.com, is the company producing the waterproof-breathable laminate for the fabrics used on these jackets, not Gore (which is why you don't see any Gore-Tex labelling on the IECS jacket).

Hmmm, well then, I stand corrected.

A barrier layer between the outer shell and lining is made from a waterproof moisture vapour permeable membrane laminated between two layers of nylon tricot.

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/Chief_Land_Staff/Clothe_the_soldier/hab/2/2423_e.asp

 

[Blakey]

Why can't they make a simple under-the-shirt shell out of REAL Gore-tex? Why always do it on the cheap with 15 different garments (2 jackets, a parka, tobogan pants that no-one uses, wind pants, etc.)?

Just one Gore-tex liner. That's it.

Exactly, whats wrong with just putting the digital CADPAT pattern on the Stealth suit.... :

 

[Zoomie]

Gore-tex is a brand name, much like Kevlar, Teflon and Nomex.  We rarely use Dupont products, as the non-trademarked fibre is just as efficient.  Our Helmets are made with Aramid Fibre, not Kevlar.

ICE has been fully integrated into the Airforce (every piece of IECS army is in CADPAT for the Blue boys) - it is only fair for the PRes to start to receive them.

 

[dutchie]

Gore-tex is a brand name, much like Kevlar, Teflon and Nomex.  We rarely use Dupont products, as the non-trademarked fibre is just as efficient. 

If this is the same stuff that the IECS OD jacket is made of, it is NOT as effective as Gore-tex. I have Gore-tex socks that, for demonstration purposes, I filled with water and left them overnight. Not one drop of water penetrated the fabric. 25 minutes in a BC rainstorm in my 'gore-tex' jacket and I'm wet.

I say again, one gore-tex stealth suit, that all that's needed! You can slap that under any coat, shirt, etc. If you really want to get fancy, make a stealth suit and also a shell to go over all the issued jackets. Done.

 

[Matt_Fisher]

Ok, here's what I got from the CTS site about the Army's version of the ICE jacket:
http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/Chief_Land_Staff/Clothe_the_soldier/hab/2/2423_e.asp

Design Section on Serviceability
http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/Chief_Land_Staff/Clothe_the_soldier/hab/2/242323_e.asp
The shell material is made from a durable nylon cotton blend that is treated to be oil and water repellent. While this material is not completely waterproof, the waterproof MVP interlining will keep moisture away from the body and any accumulation of water will drain through the drainage holes along the bottom of the jacket.

This description sounds like the jacket is still using the same principle of a nyco unlaminated outer fabric with a separate waterproof-breathable liner that the current IECS OD jacket utilizes.

So...it seems that you guys will be getting a cadpat version of the OD jacket?

 

[dutchie]

So...it seems that you guys will be getting a cadpat version of the OD jacket?

Yay. I can hardly wait to get wet, only this time wearing a matching jacket.

Are there civvie companies making faux cadpat stealth suits? I really hate buying kit, but I hate being wet more.

edit: I guess you wouldn't really need the stealth suit to be cadpat, being under the shirt and all.

Any recomendations on good quality inexpensive stealth suits?

 

[Blakey]

Any recomendations on good quality inexpensive stealth suits?

The are in fact ®Goretex
stealth jacket  $115.00
stealth pants  $105.00 
http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/2ppcli/kitshop_e.htm

 

[dutchie]

The are in fact ®Goretex
stealth jacket  $115.00
stealth pants  $105.00 
http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/2ppcli/kitshop_e.htm

Thanks.

 

[armyvern]

Just this past Monday, I recd a call from CTS to obtain the sizes for all Reg Force personnel and other personnel filling permanent staff positions here in Gagetown. I am awaiting responses from 2 more Units. Once I have those, I draft my message demands and submit to Clothe the Soldier who will then be distributing ICE to us here in Gagetown, as we are not yet kitted.

I am also consolidating a listing of sizes for all the ResF pers in NB/PEI so that they can be used by CTS to forecast the outstanding ICE requirements for LFAA. As per my instruction from CTS, the remaining RegF and personnel filling permanent posns will be outfitted into ICE prior to the issue to outstanding ResF personnel (unless they are deploying on an international Op).

As it is right now, with 2 Units still outstanding, my requirements are upwards of 2800 Reg Force pers to kit in this location first.

The ICE (Integrated Clothing Ensemble) is the very same gortex item as the IECS (Improved Enviornmental Clothing System). The difference is that the ICE has integrated the cadpat design fabric on the outter shell. The insides....the very same, as Matt pointed out.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Just this past Monday, I recd a call from CTS to obtain the sizes for all Reg Force personnel and other personnel filling permanent staff positions here in Gagetown. I am awaiting responses from 2 more Units. Once I have those, I draft my message demands and submit to Clothe the Soldier who will then be distributing ICE to us here in Gagetown, as we are not yet kitted.

I am also consolidating a listing of sizes for all the ResF pers in NB/PEI so that they can be used by CTS to forecast the outstanding ICE requirements for LFAA. As per my instruction from CTS, the remaining RegF and personnel filling permanent posns will be outfitted into ICE prior to the issue to outstanding ResF personnel (unless they are deploying on an international Op).

What about the NL/NS units?, we also come under LFAA.

 

[armyvern]

What about the NL/NS units?, we also come under LFAA.

Please re-read my post:

to obtain the sizes for all Reg Force personnel and other personnel filling permanent staff positions here in Gagetown.

and

ResF pers in NB/PEI so that they can be used by CTS to forecast the outstanding ICE requirements for LFAA.

Nfld is not supported by Gagetown. Rather you are supported by Clothing Stores in St. John's via CFB Halifax. No need to worry, you will be handing in your sizes soon enough. Cape Breton ResF units are supported by Clothing Det Sydney (via CFB Halifax) and mainland NS is supported by Clothing Det Aldershot, Truro etc (via CFB Halifax).

NB & PEI Res F Units are directly supported by 3 ASG Gagetown Clothing Dets in Bathurst, Moncton, Charlottetown, Fredericton, St. John, Edmonston and Woodstock.

Although, the wait between handing your sizes in and actually getting it issued could be awhile.  There's an awful lot of Reg F pers here at Gagetown who will be getting it first.

 

[Arctic Acorn]

Which is perfectly fine. If its really the same kit, only with CADPAT...

The handwarmer pockets seem nice, though...too bad you most likely wouldn't be able to use them in Garrison.

 

[geo]

The ICE (Integrated Clothing Ensemble) is the very same gortex item as the IECS (Improved Enviornmental Clothing System). The difference is that the ICE has integrated the cadpat design fabric on the outter shell. The insides....the very same, as Matt pointed out.

Don't know about you but was on a rainy range in November. Some had the new CADPAT jackets while others had the OD ones. Didn't take long for the ODs to get soaked thru while I stayed dry through the whole day.... I'm no tech but I know what wet is.... there's gotta be a difference in the specs

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Armyvern that would explain why we can't get any items throught the supply system here.

Geo I think the reason some stayed dry was the ICE kit has the Gortex waterproof-breathable laminate is actually near the top of the jacket rather than next to the wearer in the IECS jacket. (or so I have been told by my contacts at LFTEU)

 

[armyvern]

Which is perfectly fine. If its really the same kit, only with CADPAT...

Hmmm. The ICE is indeed the very same thing as the IECS...only it has the cadpat outter shell.

The handwarmer pockets seem nice, though...too bad you most likely wouldn't be able to use them in Garrison.

And you may be confusing the Army Clothe the Soldier ICE with the Air Force Cadpat CEMS Gortex Jacket (Clothing & Equipment Millineum Standard).

The CEMS Gortex jacket is the Air Force cadpat jacket and IT is the one with the handwarmer pockets.

So we have 3 different animals:
1) Gortex IECS (Army issue olive drab gortex coat);
2) Gortex ICE (Army issue cadpat gortex coat); and
3) Gortex CEMS (Air Force issue cadpat jacket with warm fuzzy pockets).