2023 UCP Alberta election

[Kirkhill]

Nothing unreasonable about his position. A rare occasion where he is in agreement with Trudeau and vice versa.

But it only reinforces that this isn’t about the CPP and what Albertans get from that. That likely explains the current low support in Alberta for that course of action and the UCP a inflating what it thinks it should get in order to convince.

For the record, I think Alberta has every right to explore their own APP and should not be impeded in their efforts to do so. I personally think they would be better off staying in the CPP but it’s up to them to make that choice. But I also don’t think they are being realistic in the expectation of getting anywhere near the number they have put forward.

But....


The number is on the table. And the arithmetic has been validated.

 

[brihard]

Mostly?

Sure, mostly. Yes, there will be some residual Albertan nationalism even if CPC get elected. I’m not ready to say the notion would lose what support it has utterly and entirely.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... A rare occasion where he is in agreement with Trudeau and vice versa ...

A joint "sell AB on CPP" campaign, as a buddy duo coming up?

 

[childs56]

So those workers from out of province using your hospitals would not have had a provincial health card meaning your province would have recouped those costs from those people’s home provinces under the appropriate reciprocal agreements.

Not all services are covered equally, Dr office visits are one of those. Not everyone coming from out of province have coverage in their own.
One of the reasons why Fort McMurray was and is limiting out of province workers as much as they can.

Northern BC had similar issues.

Also infrastructure paid for by some and gets used by others isn’t unique to Alberta. It’s the cost of doing business and the cost to make sure business can happen.

Not to the point it was in Northern Ab and BC.

Those same workers spent money in your province and not in their home provinces as well. It’s all a bit macro but the return is more than the expense. This is why Alberta is doing a lot of things to attract out of province workers.

Many of them stayed in the camps and sent all their money to their home province with the exception of a timmies.

 

[Remius]

Not all services are covered equally, Dr office visits are one of those. Not everyone coming from out of province have coverage in their own.

Then that goes against your assertion that other provinces are reaping some sort of benefit. If they aren’t covered in their own province (I’m curious who does not have that coverage and how many that would actually be).

One of the reasons why Fort McMurray was and is limiting out of province workers as much as they can.

Northern BC had similar issues.

Not to the point it was in Northern Ab and BC.

Many of them stayed in the camps and sent all their money to their home province with the exception of a timmies.

Well then if it was that bad and not worth it you should petition your government to stop bringing in out of province workers.

We both know they won’t because they know that they benefit way more than they lose.

 

[childs56]

Then that goes against your assertion that other provinces are reaping some sort of benefit. If they aren’t covered in their own province (I’m curious who does not have that coverage and how many that would actually be).

When they work in lets say Alberta and pay BC Income tax, use Alberta Drs, Alberta Infrastructure then ya it becomes a problem for the local communities who only get funding for the actual population that lives there.
Many people who come to Ab use the Hospitals here because it is freeish to them, they can dodge their own provincial system.

Well then if it was that bad and not worth it you should petition your government to stop bringing in out of province workers.

Towns, companies and the province has tried to stem this. The Federal Government and other gaining provinces have supported this way as they make a lot of tax money for literally free.

We both know they won’t because they know that they benefit way more than they lose.

Many companies have only been hiring local, stopped all the free flights. This has helped a bit. But that tax money still leaves the province.

 

[Remius]

When they work in lets say Alberta and pay BC Income tax, use Alberta Drs, Alberta Infrastructure then ya it becomes a problem for the local communities who only get funding for the actual population that lives there.
Many people who come to Ab use the Hospitals here because it is freeish to them, they can dodge their own provincial system.

You said they don’t have coverage in their own province. Who exactly doesn’t get coverage in their own province? Once again, I will point to reciprocal arrangements that AB has with every territory and province minus QC. if Alberta is providing free health care and not charging the province they are from then that is an Alberta created problem. But I doubt that is the case. Your province will bill out of province patients like everyone else. Now, i can understand that more people means more pressure on your medical system then I can understand. But again that is an Alberta created issue. And I find it odd that with the current doctor crisis ALberta has that somehow out of province workers have access to their own family doctor in Alberta.

Towns, companies and the province has tried to stem this. The Federal Government and other gaining provinces have supported this way as they make a lot of tax money for literally free.

The feds and other provinces have little to do with who Alberta businesses etc decides to hire and bring in. Alberta has relaxed its rules with good reason. Again. An Alberta problem if it even is actually one. I suspect you are just making this part up or are ill informed. The province has actually encouraged workers to come to Alberta not the other way around.

Many companies have only been hiring local, stopped all the free flights. This has helped a bit. But that tax money still leaves the province.

Just like every other province that has out of province workers.

 

[brihard]

Just like every other province that has out of province workers.

Or temporary foreign workers sending home remittances.

 

[childs56]

You said they don’t have coverage in their own province. Who exactly doesn’t get coverage in their own province? Once again, I will point to reciprocal arrangements that AB has with every territory and province minus QC. if Alberta is providing free health care and not charging the province they are from then that is an Alberta created problem. But I doubt that is the case. Your province will bill out of province patients like everyone else. Now, i can understand that more people means more pressure on your medical system then I can understand. But again that is an Alberta created issue. And I find it odd that with the current doctor crisis ALberta has that somehow out of province workers have access to their own family doctor in Alberta.

It is a bit a scam some of the OOP workers have done up to get services here that they would not get in their own province. I did not believe it until I seen it in person. Some of the Workers were using the local Dr and hospitals as a free for all. I know a few Camps that hired their own Medical Staff to ease the burden locally, triage if a worker needed to go to town or not.

The feds and other provinces have little to do with who Alberta businesses etc decides to hire and bring in. Alberta has relaxed its rules with good reason. Again. An Alberta problem if it even is actually one. I suspect you are just making this part up or are ill informed. The province has actually encouraged workers to come to Alberta not the other way around.

Not making nothing up, It is well known Nfld, Ont, BC have been the biggest gainers in the OOP work force in Ab. BC complained years ago that when workers came there to work that they were not paying their share of tax for infrastructure and so on. So we ended up filling out Tax forms TD1 for each province we worked in. Depending on how many days we worked there would depend if we had to pay tax there or not. Bc did not appreciate the reciprocal agreement once things slowed down there and picked up here.
It was a mess to say the least. Companies would work a person up to the max minus a day or two for the limit.

Just like every other province that has out of province workers.

How many other provinces have 100-200,000 + OOP workers? Not many

 

[brihard]

It is a bit a scam some of the OOP workers have done up to get services here that they would not get in their own province. I did not believe it until I seen it in person. Some of the Workers were using the local Dr and hospitals as a free for all. I know a few Camps that hired their own Medical Staff to ease the burden locally, triage if a worker needed to go to town or not.

Sorta sounds like what you’re describing is Canadians who needed medical care going to a doctor or hospital and getting medical care. What’s the ‘scam’ here? Are you suggesting people were coming out to Alberta and working in the oil sector just so that could get medically unnecessary care they couldn’t get back home?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

So does Section 6 of the Charter no longer apply to folks in @childs56 's Canada or am I missing something?

 

[Remius]

The government lays out its position and that if Albertans create their own APP, it would be a one way ticket.

Alberta allowed to leave CPP, but would be a 'one-way ticket': employment minister

Employment Minister Randy Boissonnault says while Alberta is legally allowed to withdraw from the Canada Pension Plan, doing so would be a 'one way ticket,' with no chance of return.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[SeaKingTacco]

The government lays out its position and that if Albertans create their own APP, it would be a one way ticket.

Alberta allowed to leave CPP, but would be a 'one-way ticket': employment minister

Employment Minister Randy Boissonnault says while Alberta is legally allowed to withdraw from the Canada Pension Plan, doing so would be a 'one way ticket,' with no chance of return.

www.ctvnews.ca

That’s nice.

The CPP Act is silent on Province’s re-entering after leaving. All it says is that there is a 3 year countdown upon giving notice of withdrawal. And if the fund was being properly managed, why would CPP be hurt if a province withdrew- should it not be a non-event? I think Mr Bissonault rather just made Alberta’s point- the feds are over relying on Albertans to fund CPP with their younger, higher income population.

In any case, no present day Government can tie the hands of a future Government. And the odds are not great that this crew will be even be here past Oct 2025. In which case, the whole impetus for an APP will likely vanish.

 

[Good2Golf]

I think Mr Bissonault rather just made Alberta’s point- the feds are over relying on Albertans to fund CPP with their younger, higher income population.

The bullying way - on brand.

It’s one thing to message an interpretation of an explicit clause. It’s another to threaten with a rectal pluck…

Is the Act a unique Federal power to amend, or would it require provinces’ concurrences?

 

[Remius]

That’s nice.

Not a question of niceties. It is just the federal side putting cards on the table. Whether they have a decent hand or not is debatable It’s the same thing when QC separatists were saying all sorts of stuff to reassure its target audience and the Feds were issuing all sorts of warnings and consequences. I see the same thing here.

The CPP Act is silent on Province’s re-entering after leaving. All it says is that there is a 3 year countdown upon giving notice of withdrawal. And if the fund was being properly managed, why would CPP be hurt if a province withdrew- should it not be a non-event? I think Mr Bissonault rather just made Alberta’s point- the feds are over relying on Albertans to fund CPP with their younger, higher income population.

I think he was stating the government position on this. Despite no notice given it does set some of the groundwork and positions before any referendum on the issue happens.

In any case, no present day Government can tie the hands of a future Government. And the odds are not great that this crew will be even be here past Oct 2025. In which case, the whole impetus for an APP will likely vanish.

likely not in terms of tying hands but PP has gotten ahead of this with his statement and sent a signal on what a CPC position on this would be. So I doubt the current position would change much. Some people will be disappointed if they think that a CPC gvt would enable this.

And your last statement clearly indicates this is really not about the CPP or the perception that Alberta gets a raw deal with the CPP. Again polling shows this isn’t that popular with Albertans. So far, it’s all talk for now.

 

[Kirkhill]

That’s nice.

The CPP Act is silent on Province’s re-entering after leaving. All it says is that there is a 3 year countdown upon giving notice of withdrawal. And if the fund was being properly managed, why would CPP be hurt if a province withdrew- should it not be a non-event? I think Mr Bissonault rather just made Alberta’s point- the feds are over relying on Albertans to fund CPP with their younger, higher income population.

In any case, no present day Government can tie the hands of a future Government. And the odds are not great that this crew will be even be here past Oct 2025. In which case, the whole impetus for an APP will likely vanish.

The biggest issue is that somebody somewhere failed to account for, or actively ignored, the liabilities inherent in a voluntary plan from which the participants could withdraw at their discretion.

 

[childs56]

So does Section 6 of the Charter no longer apply to folks in @childs56 's Canada or am I missing something?

They are overwhelming and taking advantage of the system here.

 

[childs56]

Sorta sounds like what you’re describing is Canadians who needed medical care going to a doctor or hospital and getting medical care. What’s the ‘scam’ here? Are you suggesting people were coming out to Alberta and working in the oil sector just so that could get medically unnecessary care they couldn’t get back home?

Simple they are overwhelming the system here. While not using their system in their home province.

 

[Good2Golf]

It’s the same thing when QC separatists were saying all sorts of stuff to reassure its target audience and the Feds were issuing all sorts of warnings and consequences. I see the same thing here.

I must have missed federal legislation that permits and maps out Qc’s secession from Confederation.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The bullying way - on brand.

It’s one thing to message an interpretation of an explicit clause. It’s another to threaten with a rectal pluck…

Is the Act a unique Federal power to amend, or would it require provinces’ concurrences?

I would think the Constitution would have something to say about that. I'm not sure any government would willy nilly open the Constitution for this. The onslaught of amendments and proposals from provinces would make Charlottetown and Meech Lake look like mild discussions from the distant past. Never mind what the current government would try do.