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2014 Ontario General Election

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A common theme for me is that the Liberals blew $1 Billion to cancel gas plants to save their own tails in the last election. A billion dollars that could have gone towards balancing the budget, or actually building the badly needed gas plants. Then they destroyed documents and deliberately mislead the legislature as to the true cost of the cancellation. They're criminals in my eyes, no better than thieves.
 
The bottom line is that the PC have put their agenda and plan on the table. They talk about what it will take to get us back to where we should be. They are talking 'Tough Love', and that's OK. It needs to be done. The liberals, the ndp and the unions want to remain on the gravy train while the middle class of the province pay for the workers that McWynne layed off, fired, terminated. The PC are the only ones talking with a real plan. The rest are spending their time slagging Hudak and not providing the voters with how they expect to get where Hudak wants, a balanced budget. Hudak is willing to take the risk and get Ontario back on it's feet. The other two parties are maintaining the status quo of more spending (equals more taxes, tariffs and subsidies) which will put us further in the hole.

Look past Hudak. You might not like his attitude, presence, dialogue or looks. It doesn't matter. He is only the face of the party, the signing authority if you will. The PC party makes the agenda, Hudak presents it to the electorate.

The PCs are the only ones that have presented us with a real, fiscally sound plan, which is what they believe and are campaigning on.

The rest, are simply in full attack mode. One only has to scratch the surface of the hyperbole, that McWynne is putting out about Walkerton, to see that she's still acting like the UNELECTED Premier, she is. She is using obfuscation and misleading prose to slander Hudak.

Vote the platform and party, the leader. Because, right now, there is only one party that has a real plan to get us out of the mess the liberals and ndp have put us in.
 
This link has a PDF attachment with what I was looking for.  Unfortunately, I think it's out of date.  Am currently searching for more up to date info.
 
At least the ambiguity about the direction the PC want to go has been removed.  If they win a majority and stick to that agenda, no-one should be whining about being misled.
 
Actually the NDP plan on cutting about 600 million a year until they reach solvency. A cut of 0.5% annually. But don't let that get in the way of a good rant.

Cutting more than growth is needlessly harsh on everyone. If you do that the economy shrinks and that gains momentum just like economic growth. Hudak's plan is ideological and will do more harm than necessary. He is a lightweight. Cutting at less than the rate of growth works great without causing a recession.

So the bitter irony is that the NDP have the only plan based on sound economic theory but they lack the skills or experience to meaningfully implement it. That is pretty weird. I don't think I have ever seen that before.
 
Nemo888 said:
Actually the NDP plan on cutting about 600 million a year until they reach solvency. A cut of 0.5% annually. But don't let that get in the way of a good rant.

Cutting more than growth is needlessly harsh on everyone. If you do that the economy shrinks and that gains momentum just like economic growth. Hudak's plan is ideological and will do more harm than necessary. He is a lightweight. Cutting at less than the rate of growth works great without causing a recession.

So the bitter irony is that the NDP have the only plan based on sound economic theory but they lack the skills or experience to meaningfully implement it. That is pretty weird. I don't think I have ever seen that before.


Right.  So at that rate we'll be good sometime in 2114.  We have a deficit of of almost 12 billion.  BILLION.  600 million a year won't even cover the interest we'd generate on that.  Cutting the fat is needed.  This province is in. A drastic spiral that needs drastic measures.

But don't let that get in the way of wishful thinking.
 
PMedMoe said:
Guess I'll have to do some searching.  I'm not one to listen to the "look how good we are/look how bad the other person is" commercials and speeches.  That's just noise, IMO.

I understand, but the theme of each parties' issues (as they see them) is what will frame their stance on specific issues. If the province's economy is in serious crisis mode, then the economy is clearly going to be the focus at the expense of benefits, etc.

The Ontario PC's are once again the first party out of the gate to launch their platform, The Million Jobs Plan, and a detailed breakdown.
 
Actually the NDP plan on cutting about 600 million a year until they reach solvency. A cut of 0.5% annually.

Uh-huh.  I could promise a cut of 6 million a year "until reaching solvency".  The question is: how many years, and what is the likelihood of another recession before then?

>Cutting more than growth is needlessly harsh on everyone. If you do that the economy shrinks and that gains momentum just like economic growth

Canada, 1997-2007.  Your hypothesis is invalid.
 
Brad Sallows said:
Actually the NDP plan on cutting about 600 million a year until they reach solvency. A cut of 0.5% annually.

Uh-huh.  I could promise a cut of 6 million a year "until reaching solvency".  The question is: how many years, and what is the likelihood of another recession before then?

>Cutting more than growth is needlessly harsh on everyone. If you do that the economy shrinks and that gains momentum just like economic growth

Canada, 1997-2007.  Your hypothesis is invalid.
I never said they would do it. I said they were the only one with a functional plan.
Not really sure where you got those numbers. GDP growth was solid and the economy was growing. I don't see any government cuts either.
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=66&c=ca&l=en
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-402-x/2012000/chap/gov-gouv/tbl/tbl01-eng.htm

Harris grew the debt by 50.8 billion while he was in power by the way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_government_debt
 
More "do as I say, not as I do" from Horwath and the NDP.

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/politics/archives/2014/05/20140517-073610.html


NDP's Andrea Horwath expensed muffins to the taxpayer

TORONTO - NDP Leader Andrea Horwath may not like public sector CEOs expensing muffins to the taxpayer, but she’s not above doing it herself.

According to Freedom of Information documents obtained by the Ontario Liberals, the socialist leader and her assistant have charged taxpayers for muffins, bagels, Tim Hortons lunch combos and even a 25-cent Oshawa parking tab.

In the period from January 2011 to December 2013, Horwath and two assistants made well over 100 food claims as she travelled the province.

The chits handed to taxpayers show they ate well with more than 60 receipts for seafood — calamari, mussels, perch, pickerel, salmon, shrimp, trout, sea scallops and lobster bisque, the documents show.

Horwath has built her entire election campaign around the concern that average families are struggling to make ends meet and can’t afford to pay more in taxes, hydro bills, tolls and fees.

She has repeatedly lashed out at public sector fat cats who expensed small items like a muffin while collecting six-figure salaries.

Horwath has targeted the heads of major public agencies — demanding a hard cap on their salaries — after revelations that well compensated CEOs and consultants were not above nickel and diming the taxpayer for a tea or coffee, something most regular folks pay out of their own pockets.

“We’ve seen the same kind of scandals with eHealth, the exact same kind of scandal with the Ornge air ambulance, where these folks at the very top are expensing not only things like coffee and tea and muffins, but trips all over the world,” NDP Leader Andrea Horwath is quoted as saying in a published report last September.

Just a few days before she made the statement, Horwath and her assistant expensed a tea and coffee in Windsor, the documents revealed.
 
A few years ago, probably in 2006, referring to the Canadian general election, I said something like: "Ontario matters ... it is the economic engine of Canada, 38% of Canadian live there and they produce (the present tense matters) over 40% of GDP." Now (2012 data) Ontario still has 38% of the population but it's share of GDP has fallen - only to 39%, to be sure, but that (2.5%) decline is both a) statistically significant when measuring GDP over such a short period; and b) not how one wants a nation's economic engine to perform.

In fact the engine of growth is now running on three (small) cylinders: Alberta, Saskatchewan and Newfoundland and Labrador.

Quebec has significant structural (actually cultural) economic problems that prevent it from running a productive, growing economy: the people have a totally unfounded belief in the utility of the state and this leads governments to intervene, consistently unsuccessfully, in the economy. Quebec, the second largest province, will remain an economic drain on the state as a whole. But: it will remain one of our national foundation stones, one, of several - not just two, that helps define the basic nature of Canada. (The root cause of Quebec's problems lies, in my view, in the education system - it (consistently) denigrates English/British capitalism and celebrates French statism. The liberal English system triumphed; France and the conservative 'French model' failed but if you attend school in Quebec you are likely to learn the opposite.)

British Columbia, too, is stagnant ... on about the same level as Quebec but for different reasons.

The problem is worst in the manufacturing sector:

20130118_12.JPG

Source: Nova Scotia Department of Finance - Statistics

Canada is doing well in resources and agriculture but the good jobs, the (relatively) well paid, (relatively) low skilled and (relatively, again) secure jobs on production lines and in small factories are disappearing in Quebec and Ontario. Only Alberta, Saskatchewan, Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia have recovered from 2008.

MacJobs will not cut it for Ontario: the province needs to recover manufacturing jobs. The holy grail is politics is a real job, a manufacturing job, for the young, male, newly married, school leaver.

Ontario needs those jobs.

Governments do not, ever, create those jobs.

Governments can, and sometimes do, create the conditions - lower corporate taxes, fewer (not none, just fewer) regulations like compulsory union membership, and so on - that encourage private industry to create jobs.

We, Canada, including Ontario, have some structural advantages: resources, an educated population, political maturity, a half decent public health care system, and so on. We need to embrace liberal capitalism ... and nowhere is that need greater, in 2014, than in Ontario.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
Governments do not, ever, create those jobs.

Governments can, and sometimes do, create the conditions - lower corporate taxes, fewer (not none, just fewer) regulations like compulsory union membership, and so on - that encourage private industry to create jobs.

Therein lies the problem. As long as people put their trust in governments to create jobs, and retain the idea that the government owes them a job, they'll remain unproductive.
 
milnews.ca said:
Only if you don't count this look at how the Liberals say they'd do things that was shared May 1st.

There will still be a Liberal platform for this election (keep in mind the Liberal Party's platform and the Ontario government's budget technically have nothing to do with one another).

As well, since the Liberal budget was leaked before it was officially released, no doubt some elements of the finally released budget were tweaked in an attempt to garner the NDP's support.

It will be interesting to see where the Liberals reverse themselves advance in the opposite direction in their actual platform.
 
Crispy Bacon said:
It will be interesting to see where the Liberals reverse themselves advance in the opposite direction in their actual platform.
A compare and contrast WOULD be interesting if any other document comes out.
 
>Not really sure where you got those numbers. GDP growth was solid and the economy was growing. I don't see any government cuts either.

From the 2007 Fiscal Reference Tables, program spending was:

1994-95 $123,238M
1995-96 $120,856M
1996-97 $111,327M

See the small drop in '95-96 and the larger one in '96-97?  Those are spending cuts.  And as you noted, "GDP growth was solid and the economy was growing" in the following years.  Those facts contradict the assertion "Cutting more than growth is needlessly harsh on everyone. If you do that the economy shrinks and that gains momentum just like economic growth".
 
If you're interested, here's the NDP's plan, just out today.
 
the irony of that plan (one that will solidify this province's decline) is that they want a a Minister of Savings and Accountability... :facepalm:
 
Crantor said:
the irony of that plan (one that will solidify this province's decline) is that they want a a Minister of Savings and Accountability... :facepalm:
Hey, the legislation's already in place - easy, peasy, right?

My fave from the Orange Book is a committment to "begin investing in infrastructure for the Ring of Fire without delay' on page 3, with exactly zero $ committed to the Ring of Fire on all the way out to 2017-18.  Wonder how much infrastructure $0 buys through an NDP government?

Meanwhile, Dalton continues to haunt the Wynne folks, at least on the French version of the party's web page  ;D
 
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