2 men hack soldier to death in UK, are then shot and wounded by police

[Fishbone Jones]

One day the high road is going to be blocked with the corpses of all the civilized nations that chose to take it.

Until it is, the owner of this private site gets to make the rules.

Everyone else here has a choice whether they participate within those rules or not.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Just an observation, not an invitation to pee higher on the tree than me, it's all yours.

 

[2 Cdo]

Nice opening salvo in the 'fan the flames of speculation' department.

Well this time the flames of speculation were right. Islam gets a pass in the UK while anything against it is prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Pretending it doesn't is dishonest. One day the UK will wake up and find itself an Islamic state if it doesn't start addressing the problem soonest.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Well this time the flames of speculation were right. Islam gets a pass in the UK while anything against it is prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Pretending it doesn't is dishonest. One day the UK will wake up and find itself an Islamic state if it doesn't start addressing the problem soonest.

Where is the proof of that particular speculation concerning those particular tweets?

edit - spelling

 

[Old Sweat]

In the putting the best spin on it department, Marcia MacMillan on CTVNC described the killing of Drummer Rigby as the action of a man protesting against the British government.

:facepalm:

 

[MilEME09]

Worst spin ever, Issue I see here is the fact that the two of them were on the radar but authorities thought they weren't going to do anything. Honestly we can outlaw terrorist groups and supporting organizations but it seems superficial because it seems no one does anything against people with terrorist views until they are planning or have carried out an attack. We need laws to deal with that fact, terrorists and extremism that are home grown and want to target the state should be considered treason and crimes against the state. Be arrested, put to trial, and if convicted stripped of their citizenship, and sent else where.

 

[GAP]

Worst spin ever, Issue I see here is the fact that the two of them were on the radar but authorities thought they weren't going to do anything. Honestly we can outlaw terrorist groups and supporting organizations but it seems superficial because it seems no one does anything against people with terrorist views until they are planning or have carried out an attack. We need laws to deal with that fact, terrorists and extremism that are home grown and want to target the state should be considered treason and crimes against the state. Be arrested, put to trial, and if convicted stripped of their citizenship, and sent else where.

A little bit of a contradiction.......You can't have freedom of speach if it only applies to what you want to hear. Until they act, they have committed no crime.

 

[Edward Campbell]

An update in the murder of Drummer Rigby in this article which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22670375

Woolwich murder probe: Three more arrests
Drummer Rigby's family have paid tribute to "a devoted father"

25 May 2013

The Met said counter terrorism officers arrested three men, aged 21, 24 and 28, on Saturday evening on suspicion of conspiracy to commit murder - a Taser was used on two of them.

Drummer Rigby was run over and then attacked in Woolwich on Wednesday.

Two men arrested on suspicion of murder at the scene remain in custody in hospital in a stable condition.

Michael Adebolajo, 28, and Michael Adebowale, 22, were shot and wounded by police.

A 29-year-old man, arrested on Thursday on suspicion of conspiracy to murder, has been bailed to return pending further inquiries. Two women, aged 29 and 31, also arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to murder on Thursday, were released without charge on Friday.

Search warrants

In other developments:

Police said the arrests made on Saturday evening were made at two locations in south-east London. The 24-year-old and the 28-year-old were arrested at a residential arrest in south-east London while the 21-year-old was arrested in the street in Charlton Lane, Charlton.

The 21-year-old and 28-year-old were shot with Taser stun guns but neither required hospital treatment, a Met Police statement said.

Search warrants were being carried out at four further south-east London homes on Saturday night, the statement added.

'Solidarity march'

Shortly after the killing of Drummer Rigby on Wednesday afternoon, suspect Mr Adebolajo was filmed by a passer-by saying he had carried out the attack because British soldiers killed Muslims every day.

Both Mr Adebolajo and Mr Adebowale, Britons of Nigerian descent, are understood to be converts to Islam, with Mr Adebolajo originally coming from a Christian family.

Speaking about the fight against the rise of the extremist ideology, Chief Constable of Greater Manchester Police Sir Peter Fahy told the BBC there had been a "steady stream of plots", which had on the whole been foiled by police.

But he said the police and the security services were "particularly concerned" about people travelling from Britain to conflict areas such as Mali, Syria and Iraq and the increase in extremist websites.

Tributes have continued to be paid to Drummer Rigby, with a steady stream of well-wishers adding to the hundreds of flowers already placed near the scene of the killing.

Scores of motorcyclists supporting the Help For Heroes charity rode past the scene in a show of support for Drummer Rigby's family.

And a "solidarity march" by the Nigerian community took place on Saturday morning from Plumstead station to Woolwich town centre.

On Friday, Drummer Rigby's wife Rebecca, the mother of his two-year-old son, said she had been aware of the dangers of her husband serving in countries where there was armed conflict, including Afghanistan, but added: "You don't expect it to happen when he's in the UK. You think they're safe."

She said: "I love Lee and always will. I am proud to be his wife. He was a devoted father to our son Jack and we will both miss him terribly."

Drummer Rigby's stepfather, Ian Rigby, said: "We would like to say 'Goodnight Lee, rest in peace our fallen soldier. We love you loads and words cannot describe how loved and sadly missed you will be'."

 

[daftandbarmy]

In the putting the best spin on it department, Marcia MacMillan on CTVNC described the killing of Drummer Rigby as the action of a man protesting against the British government.

:facepalm:

Kind of like in the 70s and 80s when IRA terrorists, who routinely atomised and maimed women and children, were described as 'freedom fighters'?

All it took was putting those dirt bags in parliament to calm them down. Maybe they need an Islamic affirmative action program in the House of Lords?

Wait a mo...

:sarcasm:

 

[rmc_wannabe]

All it took was putting those dirt bags in parliament to calm them down. Maybe they need an Islamic affirmative action program in the House of Lords?

Wait a mo...

:sarcasm:

Quiet you fool, they might be reading the forums.  ;D

 

[OldSolduer]

Maybe the killers felt excluded from mainstream society and we need to get to the root cause.......

:sarcasm:

 

[muskrat89]

Copycat, part of the bigger strategy or merely coincidence?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/25/us-france-stabbing-idUSBRE94O09420130525

French soldier stabbed while on patrol near Paris



By Nicolas Bertin

PARIS | Sat May 25, 2013 4:06pm EDT

(Reuters) - A French soldier patrolling a business neighborhood west of Paris was stabbed in the neck and injured on Saturday by a man who fled the scene and is being sought by police, President Francois Hollande said.

The 23-year-old was patrolling in uniform with two other soldiers as part of France's Vigipirate anti-terror surveillance plan when he was approached from behind around 6 p.m. and attacked with a knife or a box-cutter.

A police union spokesman said surveillance footage of the attacker showed him as tall and bearded, aged about 35, possibly of North African origin and wearing a white Arab-style tunic.

Hollande, in the Ethiopian city of Addis Ababa, commented on the stabbing to say police were hunting for the attacker but did not provide any details about his identity or any possible motivation for the attack.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Some good points from this British defence blogger/commentator:

.... To the authors mind, the implied criticism of the Security Services seems unfair – one only has to look at the huge number of plots and attacks foiled over many years to realise how much evil that could have been wrought has been prevented from occurring. It is very easy to sit with the benefit of hindsight and say ‘MI5 could have done more to stop this’, but we must remember the reality that in a nation where there are reportedly many plots, many people of concern and finite resources, the Security Services have to get it right 100% of the time. The fact is that an attacker only has to slip through the net once for evil to occur. While it is important that there is a proper investigation into why things were not halted in advance, to Humphrey it is important that we perhaps reflect on how much we owe those in the Security Services who have spent years successfully halting all manner of attacks.

(....)

While wearing uniform in public is to be encouraged, if only to raise the profile of HM Forces, the question is what level of risk does it pose? In some areas it is extremely normal to see people wear uniform, one only has to wander round some of the Garrison towns or a Naval Base to see plenty of people in uniform. There is an understanding and acceptance of this as part of daily life. Paradoxically in some areas, particularly inner cities where there is a much reduced presence, it is far less common to see people wear uniform. The sort of people likely to be wandering the streets may be reservists or cadets making their way to drill nights, rather than professional military personnel. This in turn raises questions about whether it is right for them to wear uniform in public if they are living in a broadly non-military area, particularly a diverse one where not everyone is automatically supportive of the military or UK foreign policy objectives.

As the reserves are expanded, there will be growing numbers of people recruited into areas which may not have had a large military presence before. One of the most challenging questions from a security perspective is how to balance the desire to raise the profile of the military in the area, but also protect the personal security of not only the reservist, but also their families too.

There is no easy answer to this dilemma, for while no one wants to see the streets of some cities become ‘no go’ areas for UK military personnel, one also has to consider the level of risk associated with this.

(....)

The lesson is that with a limited amount of reconnaissance to identify a suitable target, it is possible to have an effect far beyond what they could have hoped for. On a purely objective basis, the murder of a single soldier is a tactical incident – yet by capturing it for posterity on film, and broadcasting it so widely, it has had a strategic effect. The question that must surely be being asked by some potential attackers must be ‘why bother with a spectacular bomb attack’ which comes with inherent risks of detection, when a simple and basic knife attack will achieve similar coverage and an opportunity to pass on their message. The real worry must now be that there is a shift in attack patterns, away from so-called ‘spectaculars’ like the 7/7 bombings and more onto this sort of copy-cat attack which is far easier to plan, and far harder to stop.

(....)

 

[Fishbone Jones]

PLEASE TAKE NOTE

The thread for the discussion of Islam, Islamism, Islamists, etc is NOT this thread!

The thread you post discussion points for those subjects is here:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/81276.0.html

Please use it, as shortly, posts discussing that here, and taking this thread off track will simply be deleted, not merged.

We've already merged enough of it.


Thanks

---Staff---

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'm not that much of a proponent for CCW permits but stories like this force me to re-examine my thoughts.

 

[2 Cdo]

Or we could actually talk about the thread subject, which is Drummer Rigby and the two shitheads who murdered him, and not Islam in general. The only connection to Islam here is that these two fuckwads claimed this was an act of revenge for British military operations in Muslim nations.

The only connection? 

It was the number one reason they did this. Pretending it isn't is just plain dishonest.

BTW thanks for the neg mil points.

 

[Jacky Tar]

I never said they didn't claim it; I doubt that it was the primary reason. And you're welcome. Feel free to return the favour.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Or we could actually talk about the thread subject, which is Drummer Rigby and the two shitheads who murdered him, and not Islam in general. The only connection to Islam here is that these two fuckwads claimed this was an act of revenge for British military operations in Muslim nations.

or the apparent reaction time of the police or the reports of these guys actively looking for an audience/recording devices.  Recording and/or uploading graphic material of people being murdered online should be illegal.

 

[2 Cdo]

I never said they didn't claim it; I doubt that it was the primary reason. And you're welcome. Feel free to return the favour.

Seriously? Did you even listen to his little speech?  :

Ignorance is bliss they say.

 

[Jacky Tar]

or the apparent reaction time of the police or the reports of these guys actively looking for an audience/recording devices.  Recording and/or uploading graphic material of people being murdered online should be illegal.

As far as the reaction time goes, my understanding is the local LEOs are not customarily armed in Britain and they had to call for armed officers. Since I don't know the geography, I can't speak to whether or not it's a reasonable reaction time. On the subject of recording it, I don't see why it should be illegal. In fact, in this case those recordings will likely be Crown evidence, which shout make it pretty much open-and-shut. Uploading them to Youtube or other video hosting sites I'd say was in poor taste, perhaps. But illegal? Why? Freedom of expression shouldn't be predicated on good taste or lack thereof.