Wearing American Jump Wings

[tumbling_dice]

Today I received USAF jump wings, but I'm confused as to wear on my Canadian uniform I am supposed to wear them.

The problem is that in the Dress Regulations there are two paragraphs that appear to describe identical situations with different procedures. (I won't post it here for the sake of space but its page 3-3-4 paras 15 and 16). 

This thread seems to agree with para 16, but I'm still not sure:
http://forums.navy.ca/forums/threads/97076/post-981252.html#msg981252

I'm sure there are more than a few of you out there who have US wings, can you help me out?

 

[MikeL]

From how I read the rules, essentially you can only wear US Jump Wings when you are in the US, not for wear on parades here in Canada.  As for where on the DEU they are worn, above the name tag.
 
Picture of the Former PPCLI Col of the Regiment wearing US Jump Wings
http://www.army.gc.ca/IAOL/143000440000628/143000440000630/HTMLFiles/ppcli_2010_parade022.jpg


I'm curious how a NCdt was able to be awarded USAF Parachutist Insignia though,  my understanding is the badge is awarded to USAF pers who attend the US Army Airborne School and complete BAC or attend/pass a Military freefall course.  Did you do a jump with Americans and you received Basic Parachutist Badge or? Also, do you currently have Canadian Jump Wings?

 

[Blackadder1916]

The applicable paragraphs from dress instructions are:

FOREIGN FLYING AND SPECIALIST SKILL
BADGES

14. Personnel who have been presented
equivalent badges of allied countries as a result of
qualifications obtained on a course prescribed by
the CF, shall wear the applicable CF badge
according to wear instructions in paragraphs 7. and
8. and Annex B.

15. Where an equivalent CF badge has not
been designed or approved for wear, the allied
country badge presented for the prescribed
qualification shall be worn like a CF badge
according to wear instructions In paragraphs 7. and
8. and Annex B. If wearing both a CF badge and a
foreign badge, the CF badge shall take
precedence. The following prescribed foreign
qualification badges are authorized for wear on the
CF uniform:

a. United States Army Ranger Badge (a cloth
sleeve badge);
b. United States Army Special Forces Badge
(a cloth sleeve badge);
c. United States Army Ranger Badge (metal
pocket badge); and
d. United States Army Special Forces Badge
(metal pocket badge).

16. Personnel who have been presented
equivalent badges of allied countries as a result of
qualifications obtained on a course prescribed by
the CF, and those who have been presented
honorary qualification badges while attached to, or
serving with the armed forces of an allied country,
may wear the appropriate metal or cloth badge, on
the right breast of the service dress and mess dress
jacket only while on duty in the specific allied
country, when subsequently working with the armed
forces of the country or when attending a formal
function sponsored by the country concerned.
Foreign badges shall be positioned as follows:

a. Navy (Blue Service Dress Jacket).
Centred 0.6 cm (1/4 in.) below the name
tag, displacing downward any command
badge worn.

b. Navy (High Collared White Jacket), Army
and Air Force. Centred on the right breast
pocket, above and evenly spaced with any
command badge.

c. Mess Dress. A single miniature metal
foreign flying, or specialist skill badge may
be worn on mess dress under the same
circumstances as the full size version on
service dress. Naval personnel may wear
foreign miniatures, but only of a cloth
format.

Paragraph 15 and 16 do not describe identical situations.  Para 15 deals with the wear of foreign badges when there is no equivalent Canadian badge for a Canadian prescribed qualification.  For all intents, at present the only badges this deals with are the Ranger and Special Forces tabs.

Para 16 deals with wear of a foreign badge when the individual is qualified to wear the equivalent Canadian badge or has been presented with a foreign badge for which there is no equivalent Canadian qualification.

Are you already authorized to wear the CF parachute badge?  If yes, then you are permitted to wear the American badge "while on duty in the specific allied country, when subsequently working with the armed forces of the country or when attending a formal function sponsored by the country concerned".  If you are not already authorized to wear the CF badge, then CFAO 55-10 applies http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/cfa-oaf/055-10-eng.asp

SPECIALIST SKILL BADGES -- GENERAL

17. A CF specialist skill badge may be awarded to a CF member of the Regular or Reserve Force after successful completion of formal CF training or a CF qualifying course for parachutists, submariners, clearance divers, ship divers, combat divers, or explosive ordonance disposal (EOD) members.

18. Members who have received military training or courses from other countries for which the requirements are deemed to be equivalent to CF training requirements may be authorized to wear the applicable CF specialist skill badge subject to approval by NDHQ/DGRET.

PARACHUTE BADGE

19. A CF parachute badge may be awarded to a member of the Regular or Reserve Force after successful completion of formal CF training or a CF qualifying course for parachutists.

20. Members who have received military training or courses from other countries for which the requirements are deemed to be equivalent may be authorized to wear the CF parachute badge subject to approval by NDHQ/DLO (Director Land Operations).

As for positioning of foreign badges on the DEU, I also thought they were worn above the right breast pocket.  Maybe it was changed since I've retired, but according to the quoted instruction it is centred "on the pocket".

 

[tumbling_dice]

Thanks for the help.  I received the wings while on exchange at the US Air Force Academy.  These are the jump wings that almost all the USAFA grads wear.  They are the same wings as you get at Fort Benning, but it is not the same course.  The course I took is five freefall jumps with no airborne training (IE. you don't jump static line with a ruck on).  Therefore they are not the equivalent of the Canadian Jump Wings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parachutist_Badge_%28United_States%29#Air_Force_Basic_Parachutist_Insignia

Thanks again!

 

[Journeyman]

Therefore they are not the equivalent of the Canadian Jump Wings.

The link you posted specified that the "jump wings awarded upon completion of the course are non-operational wings and are not recognized by other DoD jump units."

Obviously they're not the equivalent of American jump wings either.

Maybe you should just wear them in the Hub when trying to impress Queen's students. 

 

[Franko]

I know a few troops in the Reg Force that went through cadets and got their jump wings in Trenton.

They don't wear them now, even though they are authorized.         

Regards

 

[chriscalow]

I know a few troops in the Reg Force that went through cadets and got their jump wings in Trenton.

They don't wear them now, even though they are authorized.         

Regards

That's pretty irrelevant, there are several jumpers that got their wings as a cadet and who wear them with just as much pride as anyone else. Myself included. Some NCO's where I work (one of the Para Coy's) Included as well.

Re: this thread, even in jump coy, we can't get away with wearing foreign wings. And no, it doesn't sound like the OP should be wearing any, just keep the memories you have of your time in the air, and hopefully sometime you can try it for real sometime, nothing like jumping kit in the middle of the night, can't compare, you'd probably love it.  Best of luck.

 

[Journeyman]

nothing like jumping kit in the middle of the night

...in winter  ;D

 

[lethalLemon]

I know a few troops in the Reg Force that went through cadets and got their jump wings in Trenton.

They don't wear them now, even though they are authorized.         

Regards

It's the same course, the only difference is - one does it as a Cadet and one does it as a Reservist/RegF member.

Those that got their wings as a Cadet but don't wear them, probably don't do so because they don't do their refreshers.

 

[Journeyman]

Those that got their wings as a Cadet but don't wear them, probably don't do so because they don't do their refreshers.

In the RegF, where the soldiers mentioned are serving, para refreshers are not required to continue wearing earned jump wings.

 

[tumbling_dice]

Just to be clear, these wings are worn by active-duty USAF members.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/Air_Force_Lt._Gen._Michael_C._Gould.jpg/275px-Air_Force_Lt._Gen._Michael_C._Gould.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Norton_A_Schwartz_2008_2.jpg

By Cadet they mean US Air Force Academy Cadet (much like OCdt or NCdt) not like Army Cadets.

 

[Journeyman]

Just to be equally clear.....there appears to be no misunderstanding on the wings -- a slight, irrelevant tangent on Army Cadets -- but it seems obvious to most of the readership here:

1. You got some USAFA jump wings;
2. Those wings are not recognized by anyone in the US military outside of the USAF (and even they require their Pararesecue and Combat Controllers to do a legitimate jump course, even if they have USAFA wings);
3. The CFAOs are quite clear (on-duty in that country, working with that country's military, or attending one of their formal functions), which answers your initial question.

Therefore, what you now do with these wings is between you, and the full military wisdom of whatever 3rd- or 4th-year RMC cadet is tasked with caring about your dress and deportment.  Giddy-up.

 

[tumbling_dice]

Thank you, I obviously got a bit lost in the thread. That was pretty much the answer I expected, just wanted to make sure.

 

[GGHG_Cadet]

And the RMC regulation that applies is CADWINS, Chap 11, Sec 5, Para 39:

c. Foreign decorations and badges may be worn on RMC orders of dress as stipulated in A-AD-265, Chap 3, Sec 3, Para 14 & 15 and subject to the approval of the DCdts.

 

[Franko]

Those that got their wings as a Cadet but don't wear them, probably don't do so because they don't do their refreshers.

Actually, it's the embarrassment of doing it while in cadets.

Their words, not mine.

Regards

 

[marshall sl]

Hmmm ,sounds silly to me.A close friend of mine earned his as a cadet and went on to a carrer in the Reg Force serving with the PPCLI and Airborne Regt.

 

[Pusser]

Actually, it's the embarrassment of doing it while in cadets.

Their words, not mine.

Regards

As I understand it, the standard is the same (hence the same badge), so they should be freaking proud they did it as a cadet.

 

[Franko]

Apparently there was no night jumps or water jumps at the time for cadets, therefore not the same course.

Like I said, their words, not mine.

Regards

 

[The Bread Guy]

Maybe time to lock up the thread now that the question's been answered?