Using POMV to fulfill you job requirement

[hattrick72]

First post so I apologise if I missed a thread on this in my search.

For the last two years I have been posted into a unit fulfilling a supervisory role. Recently my CoC had to react to a development which meant reorging some personell and I happened to be one of the lucky four. I was told on a Friday morning that I would start the handover for my new position on the following Monday.

In this shuffle I have been moved to a contracts inspector position which requires myself to travel 200-400km per month. There is no CFR attached to this position.

After considering the pros and cons to utilising my POMV to fulfill this role I have decided that it really isn't worth putting the extra km on a 2013 car for 0.48 cents a km. I actually don't feel $1.50 a km would make it worth it etc. The previous military members have not had any issues using their POMV.

I filled out a MSEECD (maybe the wrong acronym) to have TEME evaluate whether the position qualifies for a vehicle (could take 18 months) and also submitted a dnd645 for a rental vehicle/a vehicle from TEME's pool of loner vehicles to perform my duty in the meantime.  My WO basically looked at me in astoneshment as it seems this is a first ever request.

Long story short is it seems not using POMV will not be considered and I will most likely be moved and one of the others will have to take my place....

What publications should I be looking at for regulations that govern when you can and cannot force military members to utilise POMV for daily military business? 

I think my major disagreements for this situation are the following;

1. I was never asked if I would be willing to use POMV to complete daily tasks. It was assumed. I also equally assumed that transportation would be provided if I requested after the handover is complete (handover is not yet completed)
2. If someone is posted into this position from another base what documents does the career manager have to stipulate who best suits this scenario before posting? I would be pretty upset if I was posted into this position and a CFR was never made available from the start.

Appreciate any comments on how to best help me convince the CoC that if a military member is required to fulfill a role that requires significant driving a CFR should always be available for them to utilise.

Or on the flip side if you feel the CoC is completely in the right to leave things the way they are I am interested in hearing why.

Cheers

 

[George Wallace]

If I read that right, you are posted to a base and will have to make periodic trips off base to do inspections at other locations?  If I am correct, you simple have to put in a request to Base Transport for the dates that you need a vehicle and they will give you a staff car/truck or a Rental for that time frame.  If you don't know what to do, call the Dispatcher at Base Transport and they will sort you out.

[Edit to add]

If your CoC are not familiar with this process, perhaps they should also be talking with someone at Base Transport. 

I have found that DND/CAF holds no liability for any damage done to your personal vehicle or tools/equipment should you use them in the performance of your duties. 

 

[hattrick72]

George,

You're correct, the job requires 4 inspections a week for grass cutting/snow removal in the winter. Site visits when work orders are raised etc. All locations are on base in Halifax but Halifax is split into many different locations including shearwater and outlying areas up to 100km away.

I will stop into dispatch to see if I can deal with them directly on a case to case basis or if they will require me to go through our transport rep. Thank you for the idea.

 

[PuckChaser]

If I read that right, you are posted to a base and will have to make periodic trips off base to do inspections at other locations?  If I am correct, you simple have to put in a request to Base Transport for the dates that you need a vehicle and they will give you a staff car/truck or a Rental for that time frame.  If you don't know what to do, call the Dispatcher at Base Transport and they will sort you out.

You'll need a fin code from your unit to support this request. They should have no problem providing it, because they're giving you high rate mileage (Base Tpt/Rental is likely cheaper).

Only other thing you'll need to worry about is fuelling the vehicle after your trip, which (depending on your base) is an easy trip to the base pumps with a unit bulk fuel card, or using the dispatcher's fuel card which they'll charge to the fin code provided.

Just plan ahead, get your DND645 requests in early to Base Tpt, and you'll be golden. I've always had excellent assistance from those guys.

 

[hattrick72]

Puck Chaser,
The 645 I submitted was for 30 days and the WO flat out said he very highly doubts the CoC will be providing FIN coding for a rental in this case. Can you provide a guesstimate as to how much of an advantage renting fit 2-3 days a week is cost affective over a 1 month rental?  I'm assuming if I tried to do that civvy side I'd be paying a higher premium.
I will try to submit shorter durations to see if it is entertained and do my best to plan my week 2 weeks in advance.
Speed is going to be an issue as our Major is the signing authority for rentals. 

 

[PuckChaser]

DND gets a bulk rate for rentals. But if you can schedule inspections together, or one day a week, you can get a staff car which is free. Only have to pay for the fuel. If they're giving you high rate mileage, that should be a fin code they can use to pay for the rental/fuel.

Without knowing a whole lot of details on your situation, it's hard to make estimates. Keep in mind just paying you to drive someplace for a day 200km away is almost $100. With a staff car, it costs them $20-30 in fuel, maybe $25 for the rental for the day. Its going to take some scheduling on your behalf, but you can make this very cost effective for the organization. Maybe even get some PER points.

 

[George Wallace]

You don't need a vehicle for long periods of time where it will sit idle.  You only need it for the dates that you will be on the road.  If you are going to Aldershot for the day, then you only need a vehicle for one day.  That is usually a easy request to fill for Base Transport. 
You may be confusing the use of a Base Transport provided vehicle with an entitlement of a vehicle, dedicated solely to your unit.  Two different things.  To get an entitlement to a vehicle added to your unit equipment entitlement is a long and sometimes frustrating process that may only result in a negative return.
One of the reasons that Base Transport is there is to provide loaner vehicles to units for short period taskings. 

 

[MJP]

Puck Chaser,
The 645 I submitted was for 30 days and the WO flat out said he very highly doubts the CoC will be providing FIN coding for a rental in this case. Can you provide a guesstimate as to how much of an advantage renting fit 2-3 days a week is cost affective over a 1 month rental?  I'm assuming if I tried to do that civvy side I'd be paying a higher premium.
I will try to submit shorter durations to see if it is entertained and do my best to plan my week 2 weeks in advance.
Speed is going to be an issue as our Major is the signing authority for rentals.

Base Tn will have two options when it comes to fulfilling your needs in the short term.

1)  Rental on the economy

2)  Blue Fleet (Base Tn assets)

30 day rental of a veh from the economy, which I agree with your WO is probably going to cost too much and not be supported.  Using a blue fleet veh for 30 days ties that veh up and it sounds like it won't be fully utilized during that period.

My suggestion is the same as PC's, do up a 645 outlining the days of a month you req a veh and state on the 645 no rental auth.  Blue fleet is cheaper and if you are able to pin down the days rather than have a veh straight for a period of time Base Tn would be more willing and able to assist.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I dealt with CFB Halifax Tn many times and never had an issue, either getting rentals or loners.  I would do some scheduled trips and short-fuse ones, from tip to tip of NS (Sydney to Yarmouth) as well as NB and PEI on occasion. 

If you do end up taking your car sometimes, to places (I suspect) like Truro, Great Village, Newport Corner and Mill Cove, the highways are in decent shape for the most part. 

 

[hattrick72]

All,
Seems the best COA will be to look at daily blue fleet.

I will go down that road provided I am not removed for not using POMV.

I feel 400km a month with an average WO trip being around 5km or less each time to justify a car for the position, I due respect that I really don't have any experience with such policies and am not a TEME/Transport background.

In your opinions if I am going down there 3 times a week to sign out a vehicle how many km do I need to accumulate in average month before it is worth trying to get a cfr added to the unit fleet and should I omit trips to bases over 50km away if they only happen once or twice in a 6 month period.

Thank you all for the replies I do appreciate your input.

 

[PuckChaser]

You'd have to talk to the Chief Dispatcher or MSE O for the base to find out at what point they'd assign you a blue fleet vehicle. Each base likely has differing rules.

 

[captloadie]

Different bases uses different thresholds for vehicles, but usually the minimum is 500km a month before they will even contemplate an increase to the blue fleet size. Rentals come out of unit funds, so you would need to convince your CoC the $1000 a month is economical. It sounds like you belong to either a CE organization (or now maybe RP Ops position). Historically, those organizations have had plenty of vehicles sitting idle (rentals and blue fleet) but the management/dispatch of this vehicles was lacking. I believe, given the changes in the CE world, you'll find it more difficult to get support for either a blue fleet or rental.

I would recommend you find other individuals in your situation (contract inspectors, admin staff, purchasers) and see if a request for a pooled vehicle would get more traction.

And you realize why previous individuals didn't ask for a vehicle right? Money in their pocket (based on their own mileage calculations likely) and the ability to make side trips while out on inspections without worrying about someone asking why a CFR'd vehicle is somewhere it shouldn't be.

 

[Harris]

Just to make it clear to the OP you are responsible to get yourself to your work place and that is it.  (Bus, POMV, walk etc...)  Once you are at your workplace it is the employers responsibility to get you around if required (unless of course the terms of your hiring involved having your own veh, which the CAF does not).  If your workplace needs you to travel to do your job then they need to provide transport.  Asking you to use your own POMV is one possible route, but not the only.

Personally I like using my own POMV for some of the reasons stated above, but if I'm doing a long drive, or going somewhere I don't want to take my own POMV then the CAF pays.  I try to utilize whatever is the cheapest whenever possible.

Some solutions to your issues (as I understand it) could be:

Use your POMV (You have chosen not to do so and are well within your rights.  Esp since you are not covered for any damage to your car.  The mileage is supposed to cover gas and extra insurance)
Borrow a veh from with your section if you have any
Book a veh through base tpt as required (A lot more work on your part but doable)
Book a rental through base tpt or your Unit depending on your Unit SOPs.

 

[CountDC]

Start with the CFTDI.

Did CE lose vehicles?  Sounds like you are maybe in contracting?  if memory serves correct they had a vehicle available when I was there years ago.

I have refused to use PMV for years as I agree the mileage is not worth the cost and hassle of amending the insurance to cover for business use.  Check your policy - mine only covered me for pers use and up to 15 kms to get to work. If I used it for work, had an accident and they found out I was on business my insurance would not cover me (I contacted them and asked specifically).    Get the extra coverage every time I went somewhere would be too annoying plus I always put enough mileage on without adding more, increasing wear and tear along with mechanic bills to maintain it.  If you don't own the vehicle out right you have to check your financing terms also - I leased a vehicle once that contained a clause that the vehicle could not be used for business purposes as they had a different lease package for business plus had a yearly mileage limit that if exceeded you paid x amount for each kilometre (and the rate was higher than what I would receive on TD).

 

[my72jeep]

Remember most insurance company's won't cover you, if your using your POMV for work. Unless you pay extra.

 

[donaldk]

All,
Seems the best COA will be to look at daily blue fleet.

I will go down that road provided I am not removed for not using POMV.

I feel 400km a month with an average WO trip being around 5km or less each time to justify a car for the position, I due respect that I really don't have any experience with such policies and am not a TEME/Transport background.

In your opinions if I am going down there 3 times a week to sign out a vehicle how many km do I need to accumulate in average month before it is worth trying to get a cfr added to the unit fleet and should I omit trips to bases over 50km away if they only happen once or twice in a 6 month period.

Thank you all for the replies I do appreciate your input.

Hattrick72, if you are still having issues you may PM me and we can take this over to the DWAN email.  I drafted up a MSEECD and TEME actually accepted it, I recently received a CFR from Halifax TEME for my unit, for use to support oversight of the ship breaking contract in Liverpool.  The only reason I did the MSEECD was for budgetary reasons to prove I considered all avenues of motor transport for the operating budget that would be payable by the class desk.  Turns out even with other mbr's still taking POMV, I still have racked up 2000km/month on it. 

Contract performance oversight is a valid reason for CFR, and if the matter needs to be forced, the contracting authority should budget for a vehicle purchase (fin code to TEME, and TEME does the purchase). TEME does get a lot of low mileage vehicles life cycling out (4 years old) for age reason but still under OEM warrenty; they may decide to direct one of these to you if it is mainly highway use and expected to mile-out its warranty period under your mandate (i.e. 'free' vehicle, fin code only for that gas card).

Also, the MSEECD is best suited for your XO/DCO to vet since financials are involved; blue fleet is the cheapest option vs MTEC or commercial rental against TD claim (I have done the numbers).  Be nice to TEME, and give them your work cell phone to call you back on when the MSEECD is being reviewed (they will show up as UNKNOWN NUMBER which is annoying, answer these).  On the DND645, be sure NOT to tick the option for allowing TEME to rent a vehicle to force it to a loaner DND vehicle (the fin code then becomes only for negligent damage and fuel).  When budgeting, assume a mileage of 10L/100km and $1/L (most likely you would get a Dodge Caravan 3.6L).