US Navy - Problems with Freedom Class Littoral Combat Ships
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FJAG said:
The LCS program was the spawn of the transformation craze which also begat the Zumwalt DDG.
No legs, modularity never worked, not enough crew.
Why do you think the USN is getting a European designed Frigate? Because they never properly replaced the OHP's.
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I read about this earlier and observed that the root problem is the 40 knot speed requirement. To attain that, apparently, their cross-connect gear box doesn't just rely on the gas turbine engines, but also they tie in their cruise diesel engines to sustain that speed. The problem seems to be having the diesels in the system at the same time as the GT's. I can see that - a couple of DGs running at ~1800 RPM connected to a gearbox that's got a pair of GT's at 23,000 RPM...the conversions internally to harness the power of those engines at different RPM rates like that would be...challenging...to make work.
NS
NS
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Here's another article that shows the setup; looks like the diesel and GT both input into one single combined gear box, then output to a shaft (that splits to provide two waterjets). They have that setup duplicated for the other side.
For context, ours are an "or" setup, and the gearings are set up so that there is a speed differential that automatically disengages the associated clutch during the handover. There will be a brief period where both will be engaged, but also not at full engine power (to stop the engine that disengages from overspeeding when the clutch opens). 280s and CPFs operated under the same principle (with the 280s having two independent cruise GTs instead of one cruise diesel).
Gearing design is already a bit of black magic when you are looking at gear tooth meshing at full power with a single input; can't imagine it's easier when you are combining two inputs, no wonder it's having issues. Kind of surprised they just didn't use a bigger GT for reliability, but probably some kind of dueling requirement between speed and fuel economy.
On the plus side we learn from their expensive mistakes what to avoid, so the type 45, Zumwalt and the LCS are good lessons of where not to innovate.
https://news.usni.org/2016/02/16/littoral-combat-ship-uss-milwaukee-could-leave-for-mayport-under-propulsion-restrictions-as-soon-as-wednesday
For context, ours are an "or" setup, and the gearings are set up so that there is a speed differential that automatically disengages the associated clutch during the handover. There will be a brief period where both will be engaged, but also not at full engine power (to stop the engine that disengages from overspeeding when the clutch opens). 280s and CPFs operated under the same principle (with the 280s having two independent cruise GTs instead of one cruise diesel).
Gearing design is already a bit of black magic when you are looking at gear tooth meshing at full power with a single input; can't imagine it's easier when you are combining two inputs, no wonder it's having issues. Kind of surprised they just didn't use a bigger GT for reliability, but probably some kind of dueling requirement between speed and fuel economy.
On the plus side we learn from their expensive mistakes what to avoid, so the type 45, Zumwalt and the LCS are good lessons of where not to innovate.
https://news.usni.org/2016/02/16/littoral-combat-ship-uss-milwaukee-could-leave-for-mayport-under-propulsion-restrictions-as-soon-as-wednesday
quadrapiper
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In an operational class instead of a full-sized R&D hull?Navy_Pete said:
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Wasn't the LITTORAL ship supposed to be a COASTAL patrol ship? A sprinter based close to shore that could self-deploy occasionally? As opposed to the Blue Water ship that the surface fleet wanted - and continue to try to use it as?
Also the original spec was written off the back of the Austal experience with intermediate range catamaran ferries. Which worked. Had a large deck area. Could accommodate various loads and modules while remaining stable.
Austal produced the Spearhead class JHSVs, and the Independence class LCSs - whose contract was not curtailed.
Martin Marietta's monohulled Freedom was, IMO, an effort to secure at least part of Austal's contract by appealing to the traditionalists of the surface fleet of the USN. The result was an amphibious dromedary.
I seem to recall that the USN extended the production run of the Austal Independence class trimarans and that there is discussion of melding the LCSs with the JHSVs to use the JHSVs as MRTs for the LCS fleet. That fleet of sprinters would be used in support of the Light Amphibious Ships and the USMC's Littoral Combat Regiments.
Also the original spec was written off the back of the Austal experience with intermediate range catamaran ferries. Which worked. Had a large deck area. Could accommodate various loads and modules while remaining stable.
Austal produced the Spearhead class JHSVs, and the Independence class LCSs - whose contract was not curtailed.
Martin Marietta's monohulled Freedom was, IMO, an effort to secure at least part of Austal's contract by appealing to the traditionalists of the surface fleet of the USN. The result was an amphibious dromedary.
I seem to recall that the USN extended the production run of the Austal Independence class trimarans and that there is discussion of melding the LCSs with the JHSVs to use the JHSVs as MRTs for the LCS fleet. That fleet of sprinters would be used in support of the Light Amphibious Ships and the USMC's Littoral Combat Regiments.
Part of their issue - which we all know - is the USN is trying to use it for something other than what it was designed for.
It’s a gas guzzler for sure. But at 40 knots, it’s easily forgivable.
The modularity should have worked. No idea why it didn’t, but the concept of each module seemed common enough.
It’s too bad it has such short legs. With an ASW fit, catamaran hull, and 40 knots if needed - and the ability to carry 2 helicopters - it could have been a very nasty ASW platform.
The ships have issues for sure. But I think the USN’s concept of operations for them makes those issues far worse.
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Lawmakers Quiz SOUTHCOM's Faller on Littoral Combat Ship Program - USNI News
Two lawmakers raised questions on the future of the Navy’s Littoral Combat Ship during a Wednesday hearing, as the service continues to wrestle with a crucial design flaw, how it will use the ships operationally and retirements of early hulls in the class. During a hearing in front of the House...
news.usni.org
Previously I erroneously referred to "Martin Marietta" as the manufacturer of the Freedom class LCS. The ships are built for Lockheed Martin by the Marinette Marine yard of Fincantieri in Marinette Wisconsin.
Fincantieri will also be building the FREMM frigate for the USN as the Constellation class.
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I didn't think I'd see the day that a non-US-designed ship would win a USN shipbuilding contract.
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Indicative of US manufacturing capacity
Reagan built most of the US hardware currently in service.
Since then, outside of the aerospace industry, the Europeans have been developing most of the new vehicle and ship designs. And the ships have largely been built in the East (either Eastern Europe or the Orient). Australia has retained its own indigenous capabilities and carved out a seagoing niche in fast, intermediate range, coastal vessels.
Colin Parkinson
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Meanwhile, seems flying a unmanned helicopter is not as easy as described in the brochure.
Unmanned helicopter crashes into US Navy ship, damaging hull - NEWS 1130
Unmanned helicopter crashes into US Navy ship, damaging hull - NEWS 1130
Colin Parkinson
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But wait, we've been promised ISSC will save everything, and somehow be more cost effective, because for profit busineses are more efficient... something something something..
Also, if your crew is small, you have way less allowance for system degradation (as those systems are required to allow the small crews to operate the ship), and it's harder to keep track of what equipment will need CM on top of PM.
Also, if your crew is small, you have way less allowance for system degradation (as those systems are required to allow the small crews to operate the ship), and it's harder to keep track of what equipment will need CM on top of PM.
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Littoral combat ships in Mayport make the most of a year of restricted operations
The LCSs operating out of Mayport faced some restrictions while the Navy engineered a solution to their combining gear flaws, but the LCS Squadron commander says they've made the most of that time and established their role in the fleet.
www.defensenews.com
Some less gloomy news on the LCS
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USN is still buying the Austal LCS - including one commissioned in Sydney and named Canberra.
Catamarans run all through the Islands of the Indo-Pacific. Including Austal Cats.
Catamarans run all through the Islands of the Indo-Pacific. Including Austal Cats.
U.S. Navy commissions Independence-class LCS USS Canberra in Australia
The future USS Canberra in Sydney for her commissioning ceremony. Austal picture.
U.S. Navy Commissions Independence-Class LCS USS Canberra In Australia
The U.S. Navy today commissioned its newest Independence-variant littoral combat ship (LCS), USS Canberra (LCS 30), during an international commissioning ceremony, at the Royal Australian Navy Fleet Base East in Sydney, Australia.
Naval News Staff 22 Jul 2023
First time a US Navy ship is commissioned outside of the United States.
During the ceremony, leaders and distinguished guests from the U.S. and Australia wished the crew of Canberra fair winds and following seas as they brought the ship to life and began its commissioned service.
The Honorable Carlos del Toro U.S. Secretary of the Navy, his Excellency General the Honourable David Hurley, AD, DSC, Governor-General of the Commonwealth of Australia; the Honourable Richard Marles, MP, Deputy Prime Minister of Australia; the Honorable Caroline Kennedy, U.S. Ambassador to Australia; Adm. Michael Gilday, U.S. Chief of Naval Operations; Vice Adm. Mark Hammond, Royal Australian Chief of Navy; and Mr. Larry Ryder, Vice President of Business Development and External Affairs, Austal USA attended the event.
“This truly is a special occasion for our fleet and our nation to be here with you in Australia, one of our closest allies, to celebrate the commissioning of our Navy’s newest warship that is destined to serve throughout the Indo-Pacific region,” said Del Toro. “I am confident that wherever USS Canberra is sailing, and whatever challenges her crew may face, they are ready, as reinforced by this warship’s motto — ‘Can Do!'”
The ship’s sponsor is Australian Senator, the Honourable Marise Payne, the former Australian Minister of Foreign Affairs who attended the ship’s keel laying ceremony at Austal USA’s shipyard in Mobile, Alabama, in 2020.
“American Roo” aboard USS Canberra, during her commissioning ceremony in Sydney. Picture by Ben Felton.
“Today marks a proud moment which our Royal Australian Navy is privileged to share alongside our allies and friends in the United States Navy,” said Australian Chief of Navy, Vice Admiral Mark Hammond. “The connection between our navies, forged in battle during the Second World War, is reflected in the name USS Canberra.”
Independence-variant LCS are fast, optimally-manned, mission-tailored, surface combatants that operate both close to shore and in open-ocean environments. LCS integrate with joint, combined, crewed, and unmanned systems to support forward-presence, maritime security, sea control, and deterrence missions around the globe. The USS Canberra’s sister ships, USS Jackson (LCS 6), USS Gabrielle Giffords (LCS 10), USS Manchester (LCS 14), and USS Mobile (LCS 26) are all currently on deployment in the Indo-Pacific.
LCS 30 is the 16th commissioned Independence-variant LCS. It is the second ship named in honor of the city of Canberra, and commemorates the more than 100 years of mateship between the U.S. and Australian allies. The first USS Canberra (CA 70) was named in remembrance of the Australian heavy cruiser HMAS Canberra that sank during the Battle of Savo Island while fighting side-by-side with U.S. naval forces. CA 70 was the first U.S. Navy ship named for a foreign capital.
USS Canberra (LCS 30) is the first US Navy ship commissioned outside of the United States.
U.S. Navy commissions Independence-class LCS USS Canberra in Australia - Naval News
The U.S. Navy commissioned its newest Independence-variant littoral combat ship USS Canberra (LCS 30) in Sydney, Australia.www.navalnews.com
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They are still buying both. The LCS fleet will be 12 of each type. The AustralCat Independence Class are West Coast and the Freedom based out of the East.
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More LCS woes, with a bit of history.
Who’d have think one platform (well 2) can do three different roles…
:quality(70)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/archetype/S7HUTNII2ZE6VBQFWVKZZNSQAI.jpg)
www.defensenews.com
Who’d have think one platform (well 2) can do three different roles…
Can the US Navy save money by accepting the LCS as a sunk cost?
Decommissioning these ships early amounts to a loss of almost $7 billion based on analysis by Defense News.
www.defensenews.com
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CDR Salamander has been ringing the bell on the LCS shortcomings for years.
cdrsalamander.substack.com
LCS's Long, Sad, and Early Goodbye
...we can still celebrate and gloat though...
cdrsalamander.substack.com
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