• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Troop Strength to Increase

Cloud Cover

Army.ca Fixture
Subscriber
Reaction score
1,710
Points
1,160
From Today's Times Colonist:

Planners told to prepare for expanded military

a journalist
CanWest News Service

August 17, 2004

OTTAWA-- Defence planners have been told to push ahead with a scheme to add 5,000 troops to the ranks of the Canadian Forces and are now working on options to present to government on how to expand the military, says a senior adviser to Prime Minister Paul Martin.
The boost in the overall strength of the military could give a much-needed break to soldiers already serving in the ranks, but some analysts question where the money and personnel will come from to fuel the expansion.

The Liberals made the promise during the election to increase the number of troops by 5,000. "There is no question that the core commitment of an increase in the Forces to the tune of 5,000 will be upheld," said Scott Reid, a senior adviser in the Prime Minister's Office.
He noted defence officials are working on various options which will be presented to cabinet by Defence Minister Bill Graham. Reid said those could include increasing the number of troops in existing units, creating a new brigade or establishing a specialized formation devoted to peacekeeping.

"The minister of defence is tasked with bringing forth to cabinet how best to proceed, over what time period, the cost options, and so on," Reid added. "It would be unfairly restrictive to the minister to suggest it will be this or it will be that."During the election there was also a commitment to increase the army reserves to 18,500 from 15,500. The government acknowledged it would like to make more use of the reserves, not only to deal with domestic emergencies such as forest fires and other natural disasters but also on overseas missions.
That increase in reserve force ranks had been made by former defence minister John McCallum but since there was not enough money to cover the salaries of new recruits, military officials did not proceed.

Various defence ministers have noted that Canadian soldiers need a break from overseas missions so they can spend more time training and with their families. That acknowledgement hasn't stopped the government from continuing to commit them to operations. Canadian troops just came back from Haiti while a new contingent has been shipped out to Afghanistan.

During the election the Liberal campaign promise of boosting the military by 5,000 noted that such an increase would significantly increase Canada's ability to participate in missions and allow the Canadian Forces to play a greater role in bringing security to troubled nations.
Canada has a regular force of about 60,000.

Defence analyst and retired colonel Howie Marsh said he believes it will take at least a decade before the Canadian Forces can boost its ranks by 5,000. That's because over the next six years it faces an exodus of experienced personnel who will reach early retirement, noted Marsh, a senior analyst with the pro-military lobby group, the Conference of Defence Associations. In addition, the military's existing training is not capable of handling a large influx of new recruits, he said. Troops who should be instructing new soldiers are finding themselves shipped off to overseas missions, he added."I don't think much can happen before 2012," said Marsh. "A fully manned and equipped fourth brigade by 2020 is a realistic goal."Other analysts have warned the funding needed to pay for the proposed increase in troop strength could come out of the military's existing budget -- a move that would hurt plans to buy new equipment.

© Times Colonist (Victoria) 2004

 
Exactly, it may be too little too late.
Many of my "generation" got in during the 85-90 time frame when Cornwallis was hosting platoons of 100+ personnel. and all those hit 20 yrs...um in the next 5 yrs. So the longer they talk the sooner we leave.
The only saving grace may be the plans to extend IE to 25, as per the new career/pension reforms due to come out sometime in the next yr.
 
The only thing that one can hope for with this current government's promises is that with a minority Parliament situation, the Conservative Defense critics will be all over the Liberals if they attempt to do more with the same budget and don't deliver on their promises. I found it very interesting that, during the election, PM Martin announced the new brigade well after the Conservatives had presented their plan to boost the CF.

As you guys know our per capita spending with respect to NATO countries is not great and as time moves on the Liberals will likely face more external pressure from our NATO cousins (not to mention an increasing number of average Canadians such as me) who have a desire to see a better equipped and manned CF. Here's a few stats for interest, mind you in 2004 I'm not sure where things are at exactly. Don't be fooled by the 1.5% for Germany because if you consider the side of their GDP it's a healthy amount of money. (In the early 1990s the UK and US had over 5% of their GDP devoted to defense!)

:cdn:    

DEFENSE SPENDING AS A PERCENTAGE OF GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT IN SELECTED YEARS, 1998-2000
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1998 1999 2000a

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Belgium   1.5   1.4   1.4

Canada    1.3   1.3   1.2

France     2.8   2.7   2.7

Germany 1.5   1.5   1.5

Netherlands   1.7 1.8 1.6

Norway     2.3 2.2 1.9

United Kingdom   2.7 2.5 2.4

United States   3.1 3.0 3.0
 
NATO Average   2.3 2.2 2.2
NATO European Averaged 3 2.3 2.3 2.3

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SOURCE: Congressional Budget Office based on data from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO). http://www.cbo.gov/
 
If they are serious about increasing the numbers in the CF. They will have to start leaving more experienced troops at home so they can train new soldier's.  when my father joined in the early 60's they started with 84 recruits every two weeks and about a 1/3 would not make it. How many do they train now and do they have the training course starting every two weeks year round.
 
canuck101 said:
If they are serious about increasing the numbers in the CF. They will have to start leaving more experienced troops at home so they can train new soldier's.   when my father joined in the early 60's they started with 84 recruits every two weeks and about a 1/3 would not make it. How many do they train now and do they have the training course starting every two weeks year round.

At St-Jean they have courses starting every week with about 1 or 2 platoons consisting of about 50 to 60 members.  But when it comes down to it, it all depends on how many people are applying.
When I went there, there were about 3 platoons that already started before us.  And after I started, there wasn't a new platoon for about 6 weeks.  And once they did start coming again, they had at least 1 french and 1 english platoon consisting of about 50 to 60 people each week.
 
i think they need to go to high schools more. talk to the graduating classes. I know that they show up at colleges and universities.  They need to be more aggressive in there approach. Show then what life can be like for them in the CF.
 
Check out the recruiting section of Army.ca for examples of "Application process samples" and see how long it takes CFRC's to process new recruits. Even suitable candidates, who would make good candidates for BMQ incur extreme delays before they get the chance to prove their worth (even if the units to which they are applying need and want them on board).

:cdn:
 
Well, I understand new recruits are waiting in excess of six months to begin their recruit courses at the superblock at St. Jean, so more 'recruits' will not boost our numbers without more resources and instructors. Just shoving more numbers into an already small funnel so to speak.

In a larger context, the Reserves have been authorized an additional 3,500 troops (15,000 to 18,500) for the past few years, but the actual number of troops 'on the ground' has not changed. Multiple reasons for this, starting with the horrible recruiting process and timelines (up to six months!). They have been talking about changing the recruiting process for the Reserves since I joined in 1993, and we still have the same problems (they have also talked about fixing the Reserve pay system that long, but I digress). The new modularized training system also means it can take over a year or more for a recruit to become a trained infantry soldier (versus the three months of hell under the old QL3 system), plus the troops still don't have the platoon support weapons training, which was included under the old QL3 course. Finally, we can recruit troops 'till the cows come home, but if there is not enough resources for progressive and varied training (not Warrior / ELOC / A to C / Patrolling too death!), and actually ammo to do it ( >:(), you can't keep the troops interested and in.

Can't speak for the Regs, but you gotta think when Cpl Bloggins has been in five years and already has three overseas tours (and a divorce), and a lack of other training, it can't be good for retaining the 'new' troops.
 
The Liberals plan to increase troop strength: Have our current soldiers lift weights more. :D
 
scm77 said:
Have our current soldiers lift weights more. :D
::)

We would, but we are to busy being deployed, getting ready to go, or just getting home....

Got any other gems?
 
Sorry, I'm all out.

I'm all for adding more soldiers.  I'm not in yet but assuming I get in I'd like to have time for somewhat of a family life.  But I'll believe increased troop strength when I see increased troop strength.
 
Be interesting to see if the PM means to bring troop strength up to the currently authorized 60,000 before he adds another 5,000 (that could mean as many as 13,000 total) or does he just mean to bring trained effectives up to 57,000 from 52,000. 

Watch and Shoot??. ???
 
Personally, i think we should just have more "propaganda"!  Meaning ways to show people what the CF is really all about.  I'm currently in the recruiting process, and everybody i tell that i'm joining all start saying the stupidest things, trying to convince me not to join.  but then i realized that they don't know the difference between the CF and the americana that they watch on tv. i think a lot of canadians don't know what the role of the cf is, and confuse it with military aggression.
 
Right, here is the priority for placing new PYs into the system (as I see it):

1) enlarge the number of personnel in training establishments (especially battle schools & CTC) so that they can handle more & larger courses (and so that the field force no longer has to send instructor augmenties every time an SQ or PLQ is run).

2) Rebuild Cbt Sp Coy (Mor, Pnr, AAP).

3) Bring back the fourth rifle Coy.

4) Increase the number of Engr & CSS pers.

5) Create a fully manned fourth brigade.

5) bring back military jobs replaced by ASD.

When Air & Sea pers requirements are looked at, the 5 000 new PYs will be used before working as far down my list as to reach building a fourth Bde.
 
Yard Ape said:
5) Create a fully manned fourth brigade.

Dreamer.....nothing but a dreamer.......  ;)

Regards
 
Getting back on Topic.
One stop gap that could be used but would require Legislation to protect the Reserves.

#-1  Activate x amount of Reserve Units and post them to their relevent trade for one year at atime until the required strength is reached and all will benefit.
The Reserves will get much needed training and the Reg.'s will have bodies to fill in the blank's and give some relief.

#-2 Activate x amount of Reserve Units for overseas Ops and post them to their relevent trades for the whole year or more if need be again all will come away the better.

All the above done till we get our numbers up.
Just an idea.
 
Spr Earl...do you propose that the Reserves move their 'promotions' into line with the Regs?  A Reservist working full-time with a Reg Unit, but progressing through the ranks faster than a Reg Force peer is a question that must be asked.  A Reg Force soldier requires up to four years of experience and courses to attain the rank of Cpl, while Reservists attain that rank in half the time.  That is one "perk" I don't think they want to give up as it is an incentive in their (read Reserve Unit) recruiting process. 

It would be a good thing, as already there are problems on taskings of Reserve Cpls sometimes overstepping their bounds with experienced Reg Force Pte/Tpr/Spr/Gnrs.  Usually dealt with quickly, but sometimes gets ugly. :crybaby:

GW
 
George Wallace said:
Spr Earl...do you propose that the Reserves move their 'promotions' into line with the Regs?   A Reservist working full-time with a Reg Unit, but progressing through the ranks faster than a Reg Force peer is a question that must be asked.   A Reg Force soldier requires up to four years of experience and courses to attain the rank of Cpl, while Reservists attain that rank in half the time.   That is one "perk" I don't think they want to give up as it is an incentive in their (read Reserve Unit) recruiting process.  

It would be a good thing, as already there are problems on taskings of Reserve Cpls sometimes overstepping their bounds with experienced Reg Force Pte/Tpr/Spr/Gnrs.   Usually dealt with quickly, but sometimes gets ugly. :crybaby:

GW

No not at all,every one is graded as is done now when going over seas.
We could make it harder.
If the Pers. are not up to snuff or have an attitude problem then they are R.T.U'd

Like my self I'm a Master Jack (by choice) but dropped to Cpl both times when I went on Class C. with 1 C.E.R and I respected that decision as I'm not full time and also I went to learn from the full time.
I have never had any probs. serving with the Reg.'s of any trade because of my attitude which is "I'm here to learn"


The rank thing with in the Reseves is one of my pet peev's!! >:(
It's a gimmee and not on a merit based system which it should be.!!!!
It is done to retain people,thats why we get a lot of numpties promoted to Jr.N.C.O.'s and Snr. N.C.O.'s and some Officer's.

But with some good clear thinking I think it might work.

 
Back
Top