Too much pride?!

[Grump]

Why is it that people who aren't thinking of a career change are the ones who are on the defensive whenever the ones who are talk about their choices?  It seemes to me that they are worried that they may end up changing their minds about where they work.

 

[Sapper6]

Why is it that people who aren't thinking of a career change are the ones who are on the defensive whenever the ones who are talk about their choices?   It seemes to me that they are worried that they may end up changing their minds about where they work.

Huh?

 

[Grump]

It seems to me that some troops are just to proud.  Now there is nothing wrong with taking pride in what you do however you don't need to force others to share that pride especially when they aren't happy with their trade.

 

[aesop081]

It seems to me that some troops are just to proud.   Now there is nothing wrong with taking pride in what you do however you don't need to force others to share that pride especially when they aren't happy with their trade.

If you are talking about guys remustering out of a specific trade/corps/branch, i'll admit i know what you mean, i've been trough it !!

I was very proud of my former MOC (i have the tatoos to prove it) and when i handed in my request for an OT......well, some individuals in the COC were no longer so freindly !!

 

[NCRCrow]

AESOP could not agree more.

your former trade sees it as betrayal almost like a death in the family...

But its your life and your family.

Minute 2--When VOT's come through the chain here, if the person is worthy of it. I fully endorse it. If not, I will pass it up with my recommendations. Unless...see minute 3

Minute 3--We try to never pass our problem children on, unless they want to go INT OP, then its different. We always endorse it. (helmet on-- awaiting incoming)

Crow going to Gym

 

[Sapper6]

It seems to me that some troops are just to proud.   Now there is nothing wrong with taking pride in what you do however you don't need to force others to share that pride especially when they aren't happy with their trade.

Grump,

Got it.  I may be one of the guys you are referrring to as being too proud.  Well, I don't deny it.  I am unabashedly proud to be a Sapper in the CF and make no bones about it.  I suppose I have been hard on a couple of guys who have knocked the CME, but usually I just want them to defend their arguments a little better.  In one case recently, one fella apologized and said he was out of line.  Didn't expect that but kinda made my point.

Bottom line, everyone is entitled to their opinion (good or bad) but just don't be talking out of yer arse!

S6.

 

[Chimo]

I'm with Sapper 6 in this. I make no apologises for being a proud Engineer. I also support soldiers looking for an OT. That is how the system is designed. Really how many of us knew exactly what we were getting into when we joined the glorious Engineers? Very few of us. For gents like Sapper6 and I, it was well to our Liking.

For others, they are loyal Sappers but are looking for other opportunities. Good for them, we as a Branch need to support the ones that deserve to be supported, which are the vast majority. OT keeps soldiers in the CF, regardless of whether or not the stay in the sapper family. I would rather have a happy re-muster soldier in the CF then a disgruntled sapper leaving the Forces because  he feels that it is not to his liking.

I hold the same opinion to those soldiers wishing to go JTF. Go for it and good luck. If they do come back to the Regiments, we are better for their experience. If they stay with JTF, well soldier on and keep your head down, do us proud. 

 

[Mineguy]

"But its your life and your family.

Minute 2--When VOT's come through the chain here, if the person is worthy of it. I fully endorse it. If not, I will pass it up with my recommendations. Unless...see minute 3

Minute 3--We try to never pass our problem children on, unless they want to go INT OP, then its different. We always endorse it. (helmet on-- awaiting incoming)"

Just my 2 cents 8)

I am with sapper6 and Chimo as well on this one. Exactly, it "is" your family and "your life" and if "you" make the requirements set down by the VOT programme there should be absolutely no intereferance as to if the chain of command belives a person should move out or not in their opinion which we all know at times can be questionable. That kind of negates the purpose of the programme if you meet all requirments but you are stopped because somebody believes you are a problem child being passed on. I say problem in whos opinion? Im sure there are cases that hold water with some individuals but Sometimes a VOT is the best solution for an individual but if that person is held down by the chain (or somebody in the chain more often) and what the chain thinks in respect to his current MOC and situation how is that "fair?"....because we all know well the silly and childish games that are played that actually affect a "real" person and have effects on "real" their life and family from these games. The person may be going on to be the best soldier ever serving in his next MOC for all that matters if allowed to move on! This is exactly why people have to wait ridiculous amounts of time waiting for a VOT and end up getting out, thus the CF looses another investment and who wins in the end then?

 

[Sapper6]

Like Chimo I fully support OTs, expecially for soldiers in the Cbt Arms.  It is a hard life in more ways than one and if you can serve the CF in other ways and be happy about it, I'm all for it!

Perhaps a bit off topic, but I will add the following:

I would like to comment on some whispers that some guys get 'screwed out' of their career courses once they submit their OT application.  My experience is that if it comes down to a leadership course like the PLQ the soldier is normally supported to carry-on if he was on the list to go.  However, specialty courses like Jump, Cbt Diver, Pathfinder, Mtn Ops Instr,  Water Supply, etc are normally given a second look and invariably the chain of command doesn't recommend that an OT candidate go on one of these courses (of course, if it is an OT to a trade that could directly benefit from this course then the second look becomes longer).  I agree with this policy on the grounds that there is never enough of these courses to go around and units need personnel to stick around once qualified.  Makes no sense to send a guy on the Diver course if he has an OT in to Image Tech.

Just my 2 cents...

S6.

 

[kj_gully]

I feel well qualified to add to this topic..lol. I agree with much of what has been said. There is definitely, or was definitely, and probably always be a bias within each Regiment to keep its best soldiers within the unit. I have seen first hand "bribes" ,or  at least the perception of bribes, and even coercion to keep sappers sappers. Coincidentally, the things that sappers learn, and the soldiers who are drawn to the trade are exactly the troops that the COTP, VOTP, are looking for. I was fortunate enough to be able to cut my strings relatively easily, having put ( some would say snuck) my application through while I was between units. I remember standing in front of the BPSO's office @ 0 dark30, before PT, to get a quick word in without an appointment. HFX CROWE is WAY off track if he/ she thinks it is c of c's role to select candidates, beyond the  basic, charges pending, C & P imposed unit knowledge that should be considered on CO's recommendation. The PSO and new trade course will sort out if the applicant is suited for the trade desired. Our military is too small to carry dead weight in any trade. A person should not be recommended for retention if they are not recommended for remuster. this is getting too long to read in one sitting, I will post again on this.

gully

 

[NCRCrow]

I do not select them, but I put my recommendations on the memo.

I always use the divisional chain and would not deny due process.

Would you support a bag of sh*t!  I wouldn't. And the CO would not either.

So I am a little confused.

 

[Chimo]

I think that you do not recoginize that most of the Soldiers are good candidates for a remuster. The ones that are not, must be given due process. It is the COs recommendation that counts. The SOldiers file should accurately relect the situation if the Soldier is not suitable because of attitude or motivational reasons.

If the Officers and SNCOs are doing their job on counselling it should be pretty straight forward.   Besides HFX Crow, I'm not sure of how many personnel issues a Naval League Cadet has to deal with...perhaps you could explain.

 

[kj_gully]

I'm saying that if the soldier is effective in the trade they are in, they may be effective in the trade they are selected for. If they are ineffective in the trade they are in, then there should be counselling ongoing, with an intent to rectify or release. Don't ignore a problem , don't think you can fix a problem any better than the next guy, don't judge what attributes you think are necessary to succeed. Ithink the potential remuster better have had some face time with the c of c in a negative way repeatedly before they should be recommended poorly for remuster, and should be skating on thin ice for retention. I know the paperwork is a drag to get dead weight to move along, but if it hasn't started, then who are you to decide what it takes to be a postal clerk?