The Evacuation of Canadians from Lebanon Thread

[twistidnick]

I just don't understand, according to CTV News Net and Global National, over 1% of the Canada's Pop. is in need of evacuations from Lebanon. Can someone please explane to me why so many of our countrymen are their?

Also, I don't know how it is in other cities, but, I was downtown (Windsor, On)Tuesday night and their were people driving around with Lebanese Flags, hanging out of cars, screaming death to Israel, Random Lebanese Sayings and also Victory to Hezbollah. I personally find this very disturbing that this conflict is coming so close to my home and I am powerless to do anything about it.

Nick

 

[George Wallace]

There are four or five times as many in Hong Kong.  If we go around the world and start counting, you may find that no one lives in Canada according to the statistics that you look at.  Where do you live?  ;D

 

[vonGarvin]

I personally find this very disturbing that this conflict is coming so close to my home and I am powerless to do anything about it.

You are NOT powerless.  Get an Isreali and Lebonese flag, make a sign, and say "Save the innocents.  Death to Hezbollah".  Organise an information picket.  Write a letter to the editor.  Talk to those who seem to be supporting the death of a nation.  Talk to those who support a terrorist organisation.  Report them to the police.  That or invest in paint ball guns and vent your rage playing paint ball somewhere. 

 

[twistidnick]

Windsor, On Born and Raised.

 

[twistidnick]

i like the paintball gun idea.  but your right those are all feasible options.

 

[Remius]

I just don't understand, according to CTV News Net and Global National, over 1% of the Canada's Pop. is in need of evacuations from Lebanon. Can someone please explane to me why so many of our countrymen are their?

Also, I don't know how it is in other cities, but, I was downtown (Windsor, On)Tuesday night and their were people driving around with Lebanese Flags, hanging out of cars, screaming death to Israel, Random Lebanese Sayings and also Victory to Hezbollah. I personally find this very disturbing that this conflict is coming so close to my home and I am powerless to do anything about it.

Nick

Hmn, I didn't see the report in question but I'm guessing they have their numbers wrong.  Let's be generous and say we have 40 000 000 people in Canada.  Lebanese Canadians and others account for 40 000 in Lebanon (again being very very generous).  That's 0.1%.  I highly doubt that we have 400 000 (1%) Canadians in Lebanon.

Chalk it up to innacurate reporting.

 

[chanman]

Did someone move a decimal?  Our population should be somewhere above 31 million, maybe closer to 32 (guess we'll find out when the Census 2006 data is finally compiled) so I doubt we have over 300,000 people living in Lebanon.  In fact, if that were true, Canadians would make up nearly 10% of Lebenon's population (using wikipedia's population number for Lebenon.)

OTOH, if you take the estimate of how many Canadians are there (21,000 contacted by Foreign Affairs, with possibly up to 50,000 living in country, right?), then depending on how big your number is, Canadians could conceivably make up around 1% of Lebanon's pop.

 

[aluc]

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1153260642188&call_pageid=968332189003&col=968350116895

Now, I read this in yesterday's paper and found it quite interesting. I am in no way advocating what this gentleman wrote in his letter to the editor of the Star, and I realise it is just a  letter to the editor and may not be based on any facts or statistics. But it may raise an excellent question as to why there are so  many Canadian citizens presently in Lebanon. Does this man's letter hold any water, or is he just blowing hot air?  Without turning this into a witch hunt, it would be interesting to see what the reasons are. Is this man correct , or is everyone just there on summer vacation?

"There are a substantial number of immigrants from Lebanon (1) currently living in Canada. At the time of the 1991 Census, there were 54,605 people born in Lebanon living in Canada, representing 1% of all immigrants. Immigrants born in Lebanon made up 0.2% of the total Canadian population that year."
(http://www.rootsweb.com/~lbnwgw/whoiswho/references/canadaimmigration.htm) - copyright  Citizenship and Immigration Canada   

This is the most recent account of census numbers I could find in my limited time this morning.


Are these people really Canadians?
Jul. 19, 2006. 01:00 AM

Canadians flee war

July 18.

Over the last 40 years we have had thousands of refugees from Lebanon. We offered them Canadian status and passports. With fighting flaring up again in Lebanon we are expected to come to the rescue of 40,000 alleged Canadians.

In my mind, a Canadian is a person who lives, works and pays taxes here, not a person who comes for a short time in order to get a passport that makes international travel easier and then heads elsewhere.

I would be curious to see the tax records for some of those who expect Canada to come to their aid to see if they have been living and working in Canada or if they obtained Canadian passports as flags of convenience.

 

[twistidnick]

In my mind, a Canadian is a person who lives, works and pays taxes here, not a person who comes for a short time in order to get a passport that makes international travel easier and then heads elsewhere.

I would be curious to see the tax records for some of those who expect Canada to come to their aid to see if they have been living and working in Canada or if they obtained Canadian passports as flags of convenience.

I wanted to touch on this but i didn't want to be deemed a racist.

 

[aluc]

I wanted to touch on this but i didn't want to be deemed a racist.

Understood. Yet I've been scouring the major papers here in T.O. and have come across a handful of letters to the editor such as the one I previously posted. The Sun/Star have published such letters, and I believe it is a question countless people are asking - why are there so many Canadians there? Some people may consider such questioning racism...but what isn't seen as racism in this day and age. I think people are generally curious, especially when tax money is being used to pay for the evacuation of such a large number of Canadians. Questions aside, the most vital thing here is to ensure that our citzens are removed from harm's way, just as any of us would wish if we were stranded in a similar situation. I am in no way commenting on if these people are Canadian or not, because the bottom line is that they are citizens and must be afforded the same rights that all Canadian citizens are entitled to.

 

[ArmyRick]

Is there people who become Canadians for the sake of convience? I beleive there is. I get a little sick and tired of people abusing their privileges here in Canada.

If I were to drive around in my town waving flags and screaming death to X nation, I would be called a blood thirsty racist...

 

[Good2Golf]

I wanted to touch on this but i didn't want to be deemed a racist.

Nothing at all racist about your (and others') concerns.

What gets me are those with dual citizenship and who leave Canada travelling on a Canadian passport, then when they get into certain regions, continue their travel on the other citizenship, then when things head South, start travelling again on the Canadian passport.

It would be interesting to know how many Canadians being evacuated actually entered Lebanon on a Canadian passport.  Per the Geneva Convention, there are ramifications to travelling on different passports.

Cheers,
Duey

 

[Remius]

The whole citizenship question is valid not racist.

They have citizenship then they are canadian.  Plain and simple in the eyes of the country and the law.  How citizenship is granted is a whole other ball game though.

As far as to why they are all in lebanon?  There are many reasons.  Here are some from my experience with Lebanese-Canadians I grew up with.  

Most lebanese that I know/knew have a strong sense of pride with regards to their country of birth.  Many remember when Lebanon was the "Jewel" of the meditaranean.  Then War hit.  Some fled to safer parts of the world to give their children or themselves a better life.  Most that I have known spent 15 years+ in Canada before deciding to move back.  Most were under the impression that Lebanon would return to its former glory.  Also many were children when they came to Canada.  

Now keep in mind that they were all christian.  I have never realy known a muslim lebanese person.  i know that there are various sects some extreme some not.

I don't doubt or question their citizenship.  i still don't understand why in the world you would leave one of the best countries in the world and put yourself back in to an unstable area.  But i still don't doubt their citizenship because of it though.

Again, this may not be the standard for all cases.  Just personal experience.

As for passports and such.  Well we live in a society that recognises dual citizenship.  If I had two passports and one gave me an advantage over the other in certain circumstances I would use it.  Not sure if that's legal or not though. 

 

[ArmyRick]

When it is convient to be Canadian, be Canadian. Is that how it works?

 

[Remius]

When it is convient to be Canadian, be Canadian. Is that how it works?

No no.  That's not what I mean.  I think though that if they have dual citizenship and both countries recognise that fact then they should have access to whatever their citizenship entitles them to. But they should also accept the pitfalls as well.  Like, if they go back and are told they have to do mandatory military service for example, then guess what?  Your screwed.  I know of one case where a dual citizen went back to Lebanon and was pressed into mandatory military service.  He tried to appeal it through the Canadian Embassy but was told that there wasn't much they could do to help. 

 

[GO!!!]

I find the whole "citizen" fiasco revolting, but with a simple fix.

Simply instate a rule that states that any Canadian citizen born in another state must;

1. Spend one half of their time (183 days a year) on Canadian soil.

2. Carry proof that their taxes are paid and up to date for the fiscal year.

Citizenship which was permitted to lapse would come into effect again when the proper tax return was filed, and appropriate taxes paid.

You are already required to spend six months in Canada per year for your health care coverage to remain valid, why should citizenship be any different?

I agree with Army Rick. Our citizenship and passports are not to be used as flags of convenience when your nation of origin implodes (again).

 

[Remius]

Well, I would go even further.  I think citizenship should be earned, not given as a default based on how much time you spend in country.  You could come here, not do one single thing to benefit the country and claim citizenship after three years.  Meanwhile buddy comes over, struggles to make his place, works for the government or volunteers etc etc and is treated the same way.

Sounds extreme and probably will never happen but it would place some sort of value on citizenship.

 

[vonGarvin]

Wasn't it "Starship Troopers" that differentiated between "Civilians" and "Citizens"?  I can't remember, but what was the difference?  I think that "Civilians" referred to all inhabitants of earth, whereas "Citizens" where those civilians who have earned the title "Citizen", and all of the inherent privelages of being a citizen, through service to the state.

 

[Remius]

I think you are correct.  The Roman Empire also granted citizenship to soldiers serving twenty years. (I'm not saying we should do that though, but the concept is good)

 

[aluc]

Just having to earn your citizenship makes it that much more important and cherished for the beholder. It's like owning your own car or house....pride of ownership ! The fact that one has earned something usually means they have greater respect, and/ or value what they've earned more so than someone who has  not worked for what they have.