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Right on!!
Tactical combat casualty care ( TCCC )
- Thread starter starlight_745
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Highlights of an incident in which several American soldiers won a silver star.
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/31767.new/boardseen.html#new
Quotes,
The squad's medic dismounts from that third vehicle, and joined by the first vehicle's driver (CLS trained [combat lifesaving] who sprinted back to join him, begins combat life-saving techniques to treat the three wounded MPs.
Meanwhile, the two treating the three wounded on the ground at the rear vehicle come under sniper fire from the farmer's house. Each of them, remember one is a medic, pull out AT-4 rocket launchers from the HMMWV and nearly-simultaneously fire the rockets into the house to neutralize the shooter
The medic who fired the AT-4, said he remembered how from the week before when his squad leader forced him to train on it, though he didn't think as a medic he would ever use one. He said he chose to use it in that moment to protect the three wounded on the ground in front of him, once they came under fire from the building
Their only complaints in the AAR were: the lack of stopping power in the 9-mm; the .50 cal incendiary rounds they are issued in lieu of ball ammo (shortage of ball in the inventory) didn't have the penetrating power needed to pierce the walls of the building; and that everyone in the squad was not CLS trained.
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/31767.new/boardseen.html#new
Quotes,
The squad's medic dismounts from that third vehicle, and joined by the first vehicle's driver (CLS trained [combat lifesaving] who sprinted back to join him, begins combat life-saving techniques to treat the three wounded MPs.
Meanwhile, the two treating the three wounded on the ground at the rear vehicle come under sniper fire from the farmer's house. Each of them, remember one is a medic, pull out AT-4 rocket launchers from the HMMWV and nearly-simultaneously fire the rockets into the house to neutralize the shooter
The medic who fired the AT-4, said he remembered how from the week before when his squad leader forced him to train on it, though he didn't think as a medic he would ever use one. He said he chose to use it in that moment to protect the three wounded on the ground in front of him, once they came under fire from the building
Their only complaints in the AAR were: the lack of stopping power in the 9-mm; the .50 cal incendiary rounds they are issued in lieu of ball ammo (shortage of ball in the inventory) didn't have the penetrating power needed to pierce the walls of the building; and that everyone in the squad was not CLS trained.
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It's always good to hear about medics actually" supporting " the troops they are tasked to support. I think this example illustrates the need for combat troops to have some semblance of advanced first aid or TCCC and that medics need to have some practice on combat and weapons skills.
Radop
Full Member
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Bruce,
Strong words and very encouraging. I am currently on tour (although very comfortable one), I wish we would have this training before we go overseas. This tour came up so fast we didn't have time to do any training of any type. I think this is training that should be done annually or at the very least, before deployment if time permits.
Strong words and very encouraging. I am currently on tour (although very comfortable one), I wish we would have this training before we go overseas. This tour came up so fast we didn't have time to do any training of any type. I think this is training that should be done annually or at the very least, before deployment if time permits.
Seems this thread has gone dead,
kinda like the topic in the CF - no implimentation, no standardization, everyone teaching their own version. Brass doesnt know what or how to address it, so they ignore it. Seems like TCCC is a swear word to cbt arms cmdrs. First Aid all the way!!!! DCDS directive!!! No staffing, no money no time, no subject matter experts. To proud to look south for advice? Gonna bite the CF in the bum. Hows that First Aid workin out for ya?
kinda like the topic in the CF - no implimentation, no standardization, everyone teaching their own version. Brass doesnt know what or how to address it, so they ignore it. Seems like TCCC is a swear word to cbt arms cmdrs. First Aid all the way!!!! DCDS directive!!! No staffing, no money no time, no subject matter experts. To proud to look south for advice? Gonna bite the CF in the bum. Hows that First Aid workin out for ya?
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JANES said:
Not quite accurate,
OK not accurate at all. There is progress being made and TCCC is not a "swear word" as a matter of fact several commanders have approached me to get a brief on what it is and how they can implement it.
TCCC is, as I have stated again and again, TCCC is covered in chapter 16 of the PHTLS text book.
The reserve component of H Svc Gp are starting to use PHTLS as the standard for care of casualties. Note that they are not using TCCC as the stadard for obvious reasons.
JANES
1. Get you facts strait;
2. Post when you have something of value to say.
GF
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RN RPN,
Just a quick question. I understand that TCCC is for non-medical pers, and that it is utilized by troops prior to a medic arriving on the scene. So asside from the standard fd dressing who will carry the medical kit needed for TCCC. Will everyone have to carry med supplies during their patrols and attacks?
Thanks.
DT
Just a quick question. I understand that TCCC is for non-medical pers, and that it is utilized by troops prior to a medic arriving on the scene. So asside from the standard fd dressing who will carry the medical kit needed for TCCC. Will everyone have to carry med supplies during their patrols and attacks?
Thanks.
DT
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The American system is that one or two members of a squad "Section" are designated as the Combat First aiders. Each of them caries a small leg or arm pack that contains airway supplies, chest seals, 14g Cathlons, Scalene Locks and a couple of one handed tourniquets to use above and beyond what the individual members have on themselves like field dressings. The point of TCCC is to do the quick life saving procedures until a medic arrives on scene or you can evac the Pt to a medical team.
GF
GF
medicineman
Army.ca Legend
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The kit itself is a mod of the "Battlepacks" carried by USAF PJ's - the kit was designed by them so that they could have immediate access to the "bare bones" essentials for care under fire. The fill is what the LFWA SME's felt was required to cover those bones.
MM
MM
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Those qualified the course do. 14 g, 3 inch, angiocath, I believe.
Restriction from theater is due to the short and simple nature of the course. They are taught NPA in addition to the FA airway techniques beacuse it is a simple and quick technique. It also goes to not having to carry 3 or 4 OPAs and that in reality one airway is not much better then the other (NPA vs OPA) for thier use.
ParaMedTech said:
Restriction from theater is due to the short and simple nature of the course. They are taught NPA in addition to the FA airway techniques beacuse it is a simple and quick technique. It also goes to not having to carry 3 or 4 OPAs and that in reality one airway is not much better then the other (NPA vs OPA) for thier use.
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We have OPA's. The picture was my kit as issued.
FWIW In theory we can also do emergency tracheotomy with Bic pen... (we got about 30min on that)
Realistically the Torniquet's, and pressure dressings is what we where concerned about. Although I spent the entire time hopign for a tension pnuemothoracs (sp) to needle decompress ;D. My GF is a medic, she was horrified to find out what we could do 'underfire'. Heck I had some quik clot I got from US guys in theatre -- worse case scenario and we had no evac ability and one of our guys was still bleeding out - I would have used it.
FWIW In theory we can also do emergency tracheotomy with Bic pen... (we got about 30min on that)
Realistically the Torniquet's, and pressure dressings is what we where concerned about. Although I spent the entire time hopign for a tension pnuemothoracs (sp) to needle decompress ;D. My GF is a medic, she was horrified to find out what we could do 'underfire'. Heck I had some quik clot I got from US guys in theatre -- worse case scenario and we had no evac ability and one of our guys was still bleeding out - I would have used it.
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You did the long course. The kit I speak of was for the people who did the one day course.
Use quickclot only after direct pressure and tourniquets are applied. Lift bandage, pour and recover the wound immediately. This stops the arterial blood for shooting the granules out.
Horrified is the usual response from medical personnel when they find out what is taught. Not to mention the TOTAL reversal of protocol by ignoring airway to immediately treat life threatening bleeds, before securing the A and B.
A nurse asked me if there a difference in civie and military protocols. Well no, but there is a big difference between those and tactical protocols.
KevinB said:
Use quickclot only after direct pressure and tourniquets are applied. Lift bandage, pour and recover the wound immediately. This stops the arterial blood for shooting the granules out.
Horrified is the usual response from medical personnel when they find out what is taught. Not to mention the TOTAL reversal of protocol by ignoring airway to immediately treat life threatening bleeds, before securing the A and B.
A nurse asked me if there a difference in civie and military protocols. Well no, but there is a big difference between those and tactical protocols.
