Significance of red/white pennant stencil on c1966 Centurion

[GINge!]

Fellas, my google has failed. I'm looking for the significance of this pennant stenciled on a the turret bin of a Canadian Centurion tank. Timeframe c1966 may put it as a LdSH(RC) tank supporting 2 Div (UK), BAOR, although it may be a 4 CMBG tank if the NDIL info inaccurate.

Considering WW2 pennants, the single one indicates a Troop Leader, the red indicates A Sqn, and the white indicates 5th troop. I don't think this can be applied since the tank name starting with a B typically denotes B Sqn, and I believe that WW2 practice was applied to actual flying pennants from aerials.

Moreover, there is a blue bar under the pennant.

I know the LdSH(RC) mounted troop fly this exact pennant from the lance tip, so that may be a clue?

 

[GINge!]

Additional info on the tank:

The CFR 51 81358, tank name on the sideskirt is BALTIC II, which is c/s 23B in the LdSH(RC) (B Sqn 3 Tp) , so this would jive with 1966-68 timeframe.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Additional info on the tank:

The CFR 51 81358, tank name on the sideskirt is BALTIC II, which is c/s 23B in the LdSH(RC) (B Sqn 3 Tp) , so this would jive with 1966-68 timeframe.

My Centurian number was 51-81355. Last on charge with The RCD in Lahr. Any idea what happened to it?

 

[exspy]

Fellas, my google has failed. I'm looking for the significance of this pennant stenciled on a the turret bin of a Canadian Centurion tank. Timeframe c1966 may put it as a LdSH(RC) tank supporting 2 Div (UK), BAOR, although it may be a 4 CMBG tank if the NDIL info inaccurate.

Considering WW2 pennants, the single one indicates a Troop Leader, the red indicates A Sqn, and the white indicates 5th troop. I don't think this can be applied since the tank name starting with a B typically denotes B Sqn, and I believe that WW2 practice was applied to actual flying pennants from aerials.

Moreover, there is a blue bar under the pennant.

I know the LdSH(RC) mounted troop fly this exact pennant from the lance tip, so that may be a clue?

Welcome GINgel,

During 1966, the LdSH(RC) was the armoured regiment assigned to 4 CIBG having arrived at the beginning of the year relieving the Fort Garry Horse. The brigade was located in the British Zone of Germany and was scheduled to be under the operational control of the British 2nd Infantry Division in times of hostility. It would be attached to them during BAOR exercises.

I don't believe the stenciled pennant has any of the connotations you have ascribed to it, and may just be a regimental affectation as it seems to be a depiction of the pennant carried on the lance of all cavalry regiments (and the RCMP).

The blue bar below the pennant has me stumped. The photo looks like it has been cropped from a larger shot. Can you provide a copy of the original photo? It might have more clues.

Dan.

 

[exspy]

The CFR 51 81358, tank name on the sideskirt is BALTIC II, which is c/s 23B in the LdSH(RC) (B Sqn 3 Tp) , so this would jive with 1966-68 timeframe.

My Centurian number was 51-81355. Last on charge with The RCD in Lahr. Any idea what happened to it?

51-81355 and 51-81358 were two of the first 26 Centurion tanks acquired by Canada from the British Army. All 26 were used in Germany.

A good online database on the Canadian Centurions, created by the late Clive Law, can be found here. Unfortunately, I cannot readily recall what happened to the Centurions in Germany.

You are correct about the significance of the c/s and its use during 1966.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

51-81355 and 51-81358 were two of the first 26 Centurion tanks acquired by Canada from the British Army. All 26 were used in Germany.

A good online database on the Canadian Centurions, created by the late Clive Law, can be found here. Unfortunately, I cannot readily recall what happened to the Centurions in Germany.

You are correct about the significance of the c/s and its use during 1966.

Cheers

 

[GINge!]

It is a crop - from one of these photos (which may be the same tank in both). There are other photos from what appears to be the same set of Centurions without the pennant. If it was C/S 2 or 21, 22 etc, then I'd be inclined to guess some kind of commander / leader identifier. But C/S 23B is pretty much just another tank. Maybe a CO's award for top crew?

Does the white "2"over the Armoured arm of service flash indicate LdSH(RC) or 2 (UK) Inf Div?

I note this tank does not have the IR driving lights, instead using 4x white light. The camouflage colours seem to be unique to the tanks and not applied to A & B ech vehs. Also fitted with UK fire extinguishers.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Looks like they were recently upgunned.

 

[Blackadder1916]

. . .
Does the white "2"over the Armoured arm of service flash indicate LdSH(RC) or 2 (UK) Inf Div?

In another "Centurion" thread from a member whose experience and memories will be missed.

The armoured regiment in 4 CIBG at the start of 1965 was the Fort Garry Horse. I am pretty sure it was replaced as a normal rotation by Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians.) In 1965 the Centurions were being upgraded with a suite that included IR searchlight, ranging machine gun and extra armour. I think they already had the extra fuel bustle at the rear of the hull. (One of the projects I had at 4 CIBG HQ was the upgrade of the 75 or so Centurions to about Mk 15 status. As I had trouble spelling tank, I did a lot of study, which is why I can recall a bit of it.)
The tanks were painted in a dark camo pattern with, oddly, the radio antennas painted in a black and white barber pole design. They did not use the Canadian flag as an identifier, but instead used a red square with a gold maple leaf in it. The other identifier was a square with a top right - bottom left divider with yellow and red (I think. Give me a break as it was 45 years ago) as the two colours with a 2 superimposed on it. This identified it as the brigade armoured regiment. I can't recall details of the CFR number and the bridge classification, other than that the latter was a circle with the classification in it.

 

[FJAG]

The red over yellow square was very common to armoured corps vehicles in the 1960s. They disappeared around 1970 or 1971 when we went to the black NATO tactical signs, I can't recall ever seeing that red over white pennant on any Centurion in Canada during those days as my experience at the time was limited to those in Borden, Gagetown and Petawawa.

 

[Blackadder1916]

And something from the wayback machine

Wayback Machine

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The red over yellow is the standard marker for the armoured Corps. The Corps colours.