Sergeant Major Marching Up & Down the Parade Square - Return to Spit & Polish

[Fishbone Jones]

I'm a military pilot.  Not an Airline Pilot.  Slight difference.  I don't want to join Air Canada.

Say I'm in the QRA 2 times a week on average, I fly 1 Red Air mission, during which I emulate enemy aircraft and armament and perhaps I fly 1 "blue air" mission (if we don't do Force Employment ie: CAS for the army, TASMO for the Navy), meaning on average, if I am lucky, I will fly 1 training mission a week.  Considering we have about 6 disciplines we need to be proficient at (BFM, ACM, AWI, DCA, CAS and AI) and they all are very perishable skills.  That means in month I never train in all 6 disciplines. We keep proficient using spare time flying the simulator or hitting the books, when you can spare time away from your secondary duties.  I work on average 10-12 hours a day (not including the 24hrs everytime you are in the QRA) and we can barely maintain a good tactical standard.  And you want us to sacrifice some of this time to do drill and shine shoes? 

Again, I can do my job fine and I expect the same from other.  Dress is definately not of any importance, given the nature of our operations.  Attitude is 1000 times more important.

Thankfully, my boss thinks the same....

What? You think you're the only one in the military that has to pull shifts, stay current, do extra studies, duties, courses, etc, etc, etc. Cry me a river. Welcome to the club bub. Don't try make yourself sound so hard done by. You're not talking to a bunch of kids on Career Day at public school.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The result of insufficient practice, perhaps?

Gee, imagine that.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Meh...HRH won't mind, he is in the Air Element too.!   

Which is probably why someone in the Air Staff likely made sure it was a light blue guard.

Those who support efficient drill understand that few units will ever have the time to achieve a level that could compete with the Buckingham Palace Guard, but is "don't be an embarrassment in the public eye" too much to ask for?  It's not like they were expected to perform a form on the march in slow time.

 

[Neill McKay]

Surely, there are better ways of doing that than by prancing around like ponies.

There are several ways, of course -- having a Public Affairs Branch is among them.  But it's hard to deny the appeal of a parade for the general public.  To someone who has done it before it may be little more than a long walk and a lot of standing around, but it can attract interested spectators in numbers that might make a concert promoter jealous.

I did not learn to obey commands from learning drill.

"he's the boss, do what he says" was more than enough.

And, for some people, it would be.  But drill, especially early in a CF member's training, is part of the process of acculturation to the CF and its requirement for rapid obedience to orders.

I suspect that the most loyal employees in a civilian workplace will not, for the best boss in the world, react without hesitation to an order that seems patently incorrect to them -- even if they know that the boss has a much better understanding of the situation than they do.  At some point you have to get past the point where "starboard fifteen" could be met with "but, Sir, wouldn't it be safer to go to port?".  Drill is part of the process that builds that culture.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Ref Picture:  And nobody will remember any of this tomorrow (if they even noticed).  No big deal. 

recceguy: I am not whining. In fact, I love my job the way it is. I don't mind being the first one at work at 0600 and the last one out at 2100. When it's for reasons that make sense (making the unit better or becoming a better fighter pilot).  Looking good on the parade square is not going to help either situation.

I am telling you what we do on a daily basis.  And trying to point out that adding hours of drill practice in an already full week and crazy op tempo is not feasible in our environment.  I worked for 23 straight days without a day off and went off on a course in the field for 5 days.  I'm back home for 5 days and off for 2 months.  It's been the case for pretty much everybody in the squadron... 

But I guess we have to agree to disagree.  I probably don't understand your universe and from what I gather, you definitely don't understand mine.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Ref Picture:  And nobody will remember any of this tomorrow (if they even noticed).  No big deal. 

recceguy: I am not whining. In fact, I love my job the way it is. I don't mind being the first one at work at 0600 and the last one out at 2100. When it's for reasons that make sense (making the unit better or becoming a better fighter pilot).  Looking good on the parade square is not going to help either situation.

I am telling you what we do on a daily basis.  And trying to point out that adding hours of drill practice in an already full week and crazy op tempo is not feasible in our environment.  I worked for 23 straight days without a day off and went off on a course in the field for 5 days.  I'm back home for 5 days and off for 2 months.  It's been the case for pretty much everybody in the squadron... 

But I guess we have to agree to disagree.  I probably don't understand your universe and from what I gather, you definitely don't understand mine.

Like I said, you are far from alone in those work habits and certainly no where near unique in the whole of the CF. I also spent time as Safety Systems in 409 Sqn and BAMEO in Trenton. Your world is far from foreign to me.

 

[Occam]

Which is probably why someone in the Air Staff likely made sure it was a light blue guard.

It was actually a tri-service parade at Rideau Hall.  Army and Air Force guard, and Navy Colour party. 

Those who support efficient drill understand that few units will ever have the time to achieve a level that could compete with the Buckingham Palace Guard, but is "don't be an embarrassment in the public eye" too much to ask for?  It's not like they were expected to perform a form on the march in slow time.

If it's that important, bring back a Standing Guard that you can attach people to for six months to a year, so that they get good at it and use it repetitively.  Oh yeah, and it lets the rest of us get some work done.

And whose bright idea was it to mix English and French while doing rifle drill?  It's hard enough as it is trying to understand a parade commander who sounds like he has marbles in his mouth because it's been 20 years since he barked a drill command, without making us Anglophones try to decipher the mumbles in French.

 

[Steve1987]

I am indeed separating the two. I separate them because i view parades as archaic and unnecessary. I do them and do them well because that is what is expected and, as long as it is so, i will continue to do them to the highest standard. I am all for traditions but i can think of many more important ones.

Parades remain a waste of mine and my soldier's time. We are not show horses.

CDN Aviator,

I'm not on here too often but dropped by this thread and after reading it a couple times you summed up how I feel on this topic.  I understand why drill exists, and have respect for tradition, but I am absolutely opposed to excessive drill and being paraded around like a show horse as well.  I think doing this if anything distances us from the public.  I think excessive drill in the eyes of the public would make soldiers look less human and more like robots.  I also find most parades, with the obvious exceptions, to be very pompous and their is nothing lamer than a speech nobody cares about or that stupid sheepdog story we have all heard 100 times *barf*.  If there is a reasonable standard, once that standard is met, I don't see the point in wasting valuable time past that point on the drill floor?  Do we actually have nothing better to do?

[QOUTE]But it's hard to deny the appeal of a parade for the general public.  To someone who has done it before itMab may be little more than a long walk and a lot of standing around, but it can attract interested spectators in numbers that might make a concert promoter jealous.[/QUOTE]

Hi McKay, I guess I just don't see it. I'm not from a military family, most of my friends are civilians, and I still can't really imagine why your average civilian would want to watch more than one or two parades in their lifetime. I also don't know how it connects us to them.  Maybe you can explain to me what exactly what about an average parade appeals to the public?  Even the changing of the guard seems like one of those things you only watch once or twice before it becomes boring.  And how can you connect with the average private or corporal standing in the ranks, who won't say a sentence the entire time, how does that connect the public with them at all?  Also, who would want to join the military if they thought they would be doing drill all the time?

-Steve

 

[Michael OLeary]

I don't think anyone here is arguing for "excessive drill and being paraded around like a show horse" or "drill all the time". The question becomes how much is just enough so that when a Guard of Honour or  funeral party or even a change of command parade is to be conducted, officers and soldiers/sailors/airmen on parade look like they know what they are doing and not like they haven't formed up since graduating from trades training?

 

[Steve1987]

I don't think anyone here is arguing for "excessive drill and being paraded around like a show horse" or "drill all the time". The question becomes how much is just enough so that when a Guard of Honour or  funeral party or even a change of command parade is to be conducted, officers and soldiers/sailors/airmen on parade look like they know what they are doing and not like they haven't formed up since graduating from trades training?

If that is the case, I would agree finding the right medium would be ideal, just the impression I got from others was that they are interested in more than what is needed for these events.  edit: I suppose also the standard will be very different for everyone.

-Steve

 

[Snaketnk]

One example I'll never forget is just prior to high readiness training... they had us practice for 3 weeks for a winter parade that consisted of marching on, present arms, marching off.

All day, 5 days a week for 3 weeks.


I've spent more days practicing drill in Bn than I have firing my weapon in training. Including High Readiness/Workup training.

 

[Michael OLeary]

One example I'll never forget is just prior to high readiness training... they had us practice for 3 weeks for a winter parade that consisted of marching on, present arms, marching off.

All day, 5 days a week for 3 weeks.

Thankfully, isolated examples of stupid and unnecessary don't support either side of the discussion.

 

[mariomike]

I'm not from a military family, most of my friends are civilians, and I still can't really imagine why your average civilian would want to watch more than one or two parades in their lifetime. I also don't know how it connects us to them.  Maybe you can explain to me what exactly what about an average parade appeals to the public? 

Whether the public wants them or not, and what purpose they serve, there always has been and always will be parades. Military, police and fire parades are examples. But, there are other organizations as well that understand the powerful effect they have on the public.

 

[aesop081]

even a change of command parade is to be conducted,

The question, at least to me, is why have a parade for change of command at all. Are events like this necessary ? Can't a new commander assume his/her duties without having to line everyone up in 3 ranks and a march past ? Does reporting for work really necessitate using up multiple days worth of valuable training time to practice for and execute a parade ?

My last change of command parade consumed 3 days. An entire air wing, that is in the middle of cranking out another OP MOBILE roto, where nothing got done for 3 days. Was this realy worth it ?

 

[Infanteer]

Good point.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Was this realy worth it ?

I my opinion, unit change of command parades are important for the very purpose of all unit personnel being formally aware of the change or appointment and seeing their own superiors responding to it, even if it is an artificial environment. It is one of the few times that many units will have their command structure in one place and visible to members of the unit.

Formation change of command parades; those could be a signing ceremony. If convenient, do it in the presence of a unit that is on parade for its own purposes.

There are other events that do merit formal ceremonies, as mentions there are funerals, Guards of Honour and I would add, for those units that have them, trooping of the Colours on presentation of new Colours (which for most would occur once about every 20 years or maybe once in a career, not exactly a burden).

 

[OldSolduer]

I don't know if it would matter all that much IF the unit isn't on a mission.

The Army tends to perform Change of Commands post  mission so they troops (after leave etc) can spend the time square bashing.
Change of Command parades are important as it lets everyone in the unit know that the new boss is here and visible.

:2c:

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I'm not advocating all drill, all the time. However it should be done at least to stay proficient enough not to be an embarassment in public. And while CoC parades may not be an overwhelming justification, things like funeral parades certainly are. And any we are holding that parade for are entitled to the very best we can give them. Not a bunch of slovenly, out of step, bumbling............well you get the picture. That drill you will not pick up in an afternoon, without a half decent base to work from, and that base requires at least some regular workout. If not, you get the results in the previous picture.

 

[aesop081]

Change of Command parades are important as it lets everyone in the unit know that the new boss is here and visible.

I'm sorry but that is rather weak if you are trying to justifie the time spent. As i said before, i witnessed a USN patrol squadron's change of command only 2 months ago. The did the change in front of everyone. The old CO and new CO were there, the Wing commander was there, the entire squadron was there. Everyone was sitting in chairs and witnessed old and new COs sign documents. Short speaches were made. Everyone went back to work. The whole thing took less than an hour. No practices, no parading and i assure you everyone knew who the boss was going to be well in advance.

This unit is not a bunch of amateurs. They are no less professional in the eyes of anyone because they didnt march around in a square with the CO leading.

 

[Infanteer]

Does parade drill improve the combat effectiveness of soldiers on the ground, sailors on a ship or pilots and their aircrew getting planes in the air?