- Reaction score
- 12
- Points
- 530
After some pondering I‘ve decided that this is the appropriate Forum to put this in. I‘m on the soapbox though so unless you wish to read a rant, kindly move on to another post.
In the thread entitled "If I need an answer..." in the Infantry forum the statements were made that a person had the "right" to call himself by a nickname of his choosing and he also had the "right" to insult someone. Although I know this not to be true I clicked over to The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms just to check and nowhere, and I must emphasize nowhere does it state in that document that someone has the "right" to call themselves by whatever they wish (in fact, some provinces, such as Quebec, have laws restricting what you can name your child or legally change your name to), nor do they have the "right" to insult someone. Perhaps the closest you can get is the "freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression" which is not a "right" but a fundamental freedom but I will note that in the case of a pseudonym it is a stretch by any means and in the case of insulting someone...well...perhaps you should review Part VIII of the Criminal Code, Offences Against the Person and Reputation. This covers the extreme end of the spectrum but I can assure you that many a person being charged for inciting hatred has tried to use the defence of "...it was only an insult directed at him/her/them...". Although calling someone an idiot, baby killer etc definately doesn‘t qualify for prosecution under the Criminal Code it certainly isn‘t enshrined in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms as a "right" let alone a fundamental freedom.
Now, one other thing you need to read regarding the Charter of Rights and Freedoms is Section 32, Application of Charter. This is a partial quote:
"32. (1)This Charter applies
a) to the Parliament and government of Canada in respect of all matters within the authority of Parliament including all matters relating to the Yukon Territory and Northwest Territories; and
b) to the legislature and government of each province in respect of all matters within the authority of the legislature of each province."
It does not apply to individuals except in areas where laws regarding their interaction are defined by national or provincial law. This is a discussion board hosted on a private server by an individual on his private time and funds and, as the first page states, it has no connection at all with any governmental agency. Nor, thankfully although there is starting to be pressure exerted to change, is it in a medium that is governed by government regulations, such as TV or radio. The use of pseudonyms on this board is soley at the discretion of the owner of this board. If he decides tomorrow that everyone on this board must use their first and last name and have a non-hotmail/yahoo/msn/privacyx...whichever free email service you want to bring up, he can and there is absolutely no recourse available to you. You either comply or are banned.
Now that I‘ve been rambling on forever I‘m going to cut to the meat (editorial note: it‘s actually more along the lines of a side of beef) of the matter for those who are still here.
The invocation of "rights" has become epidemic not only in the CF but in our society as a whole. It is no longer a privilege but a "right", and once it is a "right" it no longer gives the person wielding that "right" any sense of obligation in return, they only go looking for more "rights" to invoke. "Rights" have also been used by special interest groups, lawyers and judges to change the social, moral and legal fabric of our country since the invocation of the Charter. We have steadily been moving away from the British system of unwritten Common Law, where the collective good is emphasized over the rights of individuals towards the system modeled after the US which is based on Napolionic Law, where the individual is greater than the group. If you rent a house or apartment, it‘s your "right" to stay there even if you don‘t bother to pay any rent and the owner is forced to go to court to obtain an injunction to evict you. It‘s your "right" to smoke where ever you want. It‘s your "right" to posses child porn as long as it‘s for your own use and you don‘t pass it around. It‘s your "right" to have a drivers licence, even if you have been convicted three times of impaired driving. It‘s your "right" to be a parent even if you barely have the capacity to take care of yourself, let alone a baby. If you work a weekend, it is your "right" to have days off CTO in return, never mind the fact that those in the Reg Force are paid 24/7/365. If you happen to be out of the geographical area over a meal hour then it is your "right" to be paid the monies for a meal claim even if you didn‘t bother to stop and eat. If a unit has the informal policy that Fridays are usually a stand down at about 1400 hrs if nothing is going on, if something does come up, people are quick to forget that being stood down at 1400 hrs on Friday is a privilege and not a "right". It‘s your "right" to take leave anytime you want, no matter what the op tempo is and it‘s also your "right" not to go on a tour just because it happens to be a bad time for you...even if you‘ve been having the bad time for the last two years, never mind, it‘s still your "right" to be assessed with the same standards as someone who has been on two tours in that time frame, and let‘s not forget that it‘s your "right" to be given extra points on that merit board because you have been able to take courses which make you more valuable to your trade, compared to the poor soul who has been away more than he has been home. It‘s your "right" to phone in sick for two days a month with no questions asked, your "right" to be placed on stress leave because you are unable to take the pressure of your job and it‘s also your "right" to be promoted immediately after you come back to work after said sick leave because, well, you placed high enough up the merit list and nobody is going to rock the boat by not signing off on the promotion lest you invoke your "right" to redress (OK...this one is a right, but it‘s not via the Charter!) and your "right" to complain of harassment. Incentive pay is now also a "right". Think back to the last person who actually was denied the next incentive, even when their performance has obviously been below standard or even when they have been charged. And, thanks to a certain review panel, it is now your "right" to be given your rank back after you have done a stint in the digger, unless you are specifically sentanced otherwise. Some groups have even gone to court trying to assert the "rights" of animals. I can go on but I‘m sure I‘m beating the proverbial dead horse here...
To sum up, we have to stop invoking "rights" that don‘t exist and stop elevating privlages, rewards and discretionary acts to that mythical level. When we see people doing this, we have to start reaching out and giving them a shake to bring them back to reality.
Lastly, if you are going to quote something, at least go out and do a bit of research to see if it actually says what you are claiming it does! I don‘t expect people to be lawyers or Rhodes scholars on here but the least you can do is take a moment to do a bit of rudimentary research to substantiate your claim, especially when it‘s a document that is written in easy to understand terms.
OK, off my high horse, rant mode off.
[ 16-03-2001: Message edited by: garb811 ]
In the thread entitled "If I need an answer..." in the Infantry forum the statements were made that a person had the "right" to call himself by a nickname of his choosing and he also had the "right" to insult someone. Although I know this not to be true I clicked over to The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms just to check and nowhere, and I must emphasize nowhere does it state in that document that someone has the "right" to call themselves by whatever they wish (in fact, some provinces, such as Quebec, have laws restricting what you can name your child or legally change your name to), nor do they have the "right" to insult someone. Perhaps the closest you can get is the "freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression" which is not a "right" but a fundamental freedom but I will note that in the case of a pseudonym it is a stretch by any means and in the case of insulting someone...well...perhaps you should review Part VIII of the Criminal Code, Offences Against the Person and Reputation. This covers the extreme end of the spectrum but I can assure you that many a person being charged for inciting hatred has tried to use the defence of "...it was only an insult directed at him/her/them...". Although calling someone an idiot, baby killer etc definately doesn‘t qualify for prosecution under the Criminal Code it certainly isn‘t enshrined in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms as a "right" let alone a fundamental freedom.
Now, one other thing you need to read regarding the Charter of Rights and Freedoms is Section 32, Application of Charter. This is a partial quote:
"32. (1)This Charter applies
a) to the Parliament and government of Canada in respect of all matters within the authority of Parliament including all matters relating to the Yukon Territory and Northwest Territories; and
b) to the legislature and government of each province in respect of all matters within the authority of the legislature of each province."
It does not apply to individuals except in areas where laws regarding their interaction are defined by national or provincial law. This is a discussion board hosted on a private server by an individual on his private time and funds and, as the first page states, it has no connection at all with any governmental agency. Nor, thankfully although there is starting to be pressure exerted to change, is it in a medium that is governed by government regulations, such as TV or radio. The use of pseudonyms on this board is soley at the discretion of the owner of this board. If he decides tomorrow that everyone on this board must use their first and last name and have a non-hotmail/yahoo/msn/privacyx...whichever free email service you want to bring up, he can and there is absolutely no recourse available to you. You either comply or are banned.
Now that I‘ve been rambling on forever I‘m going to cut to the meat (editorial note: it‘s actually more along the lines of a side of beef) of the matter for those who are still here.
The invocation of "rights" has become epidemic not only in the CF but in our society as a whole. It is no longer a privilege but a "right", and once it is a "right" it no longer gives the person wielding that "right" any sense of obligation in return, they only go looking for more "rights" to invoke. "Rights" have also been used by special interest groups, lawyers and judges to change the social, moral and legal fabric of our country since the invocation of the Charter. We have steadily been moving away from the British system of unwritten Common Law, where the collective good is emphasized over the rights of individuals towards the system modeled after the US which is based on Napolionic Law, where the individual is greater than the group. If you rent a house or apartment, it‘s your "right" to stay there even if you don‘t bother to pay any rent and the owner is forced to go to court to obtain an injunction to evict you. It‘s your "right" to smoke where ever you want. It‘s your "right" to posses child porn as long as it‘s for your own use and you don‘t pass it around. It‘s your "right" to have a drivers licence, even if you have been convicted three times of impaired driving. It‘s your "right" to be a parent even if you barely have the capacity to take care of yourself, let alone a baby. If you work a weekend, it is your "right" to have days off CTO in return, never mind the fact that those in the Reg Force are paid 24/7/365. If you happen to be out of the geographical area over a meal hour then it is your "right" to be paid the monies for a meal claim even if you didn‘t bother to stop and eat. If a unit has the informal policy that Fridays are usually a stand down at about 1400 hrs if nothing is going on, if something does come up, people are quick to forget that being stood down at 1400 hrs on Friday is a privilege and not a "right". It‘s your "right" to take leave anytime you want, no matter what the op tempo is and it‘s also your "right" not to go on a tour just because it happens to be a bad time for you...even if you‘ve been having the bad time for the last two years, never mind, it‘s still your "right" to be assessed with the same standards as someone who has been on two tours in that time frame, and let‘s not forget that it‘s your "right" to be given extra points on that merit board because you have been able to take courses which make you more valuable to your trade, compared to the poor soul who has been away more than he has been home. It‘s your "right" to phone in sick for two days a month with no questions asked, your "right" to be placed on stress leave because you are unable to take the pressure of your job and it‘s also your "right" to be promoted immediately after you come back to work after said sick leave because, well, you placed high enough up the merit list and nobody is going to rock the boat by not signing off on the promotion lest you invoke your "right" to redress (OK...this one is a right, but it‘s not via the Charter!) and your "right" to complain of harassment. Incentive pay is now also a "right". Think back to the last person who actually was denied the next incentive, even when their performance has obviously been below standard or even when they have been charged. And, thanks to a certain review panel, it is now your "right" to be given your rank back after you have done a stint in the digger, unless you are specifically sentanced otherwise. Some groups have even gone to court trying to assert the "rights" of animals. I can go on but I‘m sure I‘m beating the proverbial dead horse here...
To sum up, we have to stop invoking "rights" that don‘t exist and stop elevating privlages, rewards and discretionary acts to that mythical level. When we see people doing this, we have to start reaching out and giving them a shake to bring them back to reality.
Lastly, if you are going to quote something, at least go out and do a bit of research to see if it actually says what you are claiming it does! I don‘t expect people to be lawyers or Rhodes scholars on here but the least you can do is take a moment to do a bit of rudimentary research to substantiate your claim, especially when it‘s a document that is written in easy to understand terms.
OK, off my high horse, rant mode off.
[ 16-03-2001: Message edited by: garb811 ]