Research into different fitness standards for each element

[MARS]

Did not see this anywhere else.  Pls feel free to merge/move or delete as appropriate.

http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/National/2008/08/15/6458891-sun.html

Fri, August 15, 2008

New standards fit to be tried
UPDATED: 2008-08-15 03:01:04 MST


Canadian military to come up with different fitness guidelines for army, navy and air force

By CHRIS LAMBIE, THE CANADIAN PRESS

HALIFAX -- Does a sailor who spends hours hunched over a console listening to sonar signals need to be as fit as a soldier who humps his gear through the mountains of Afghanistan?

Is there any point in making sure helicopter mechanics can do as many pushups as members of a naval boarding party who might need to scramble aboard a ship full of unfriendly folks in the middle of the night?

"Do I know whether my pilots need to be more fit than my cooks?" said Mike Spivock, who conducts fitness research for the military.

"Well, you would imagine that maybe, yes. But, then again, lifting 80-pound bags of potatoes might be very physically demanding. So, to a certain extent, we're just going into this completely blind."

Researchers are assessing thousands of troops across the country to come up with different fitness standards for the army, navy and air force.




They've already tested some sailors on the West Coast and plan to do the same in Halifax-based warships this fall.

"We're going around to all the bases and to all the wings and I'm even going to Camp Mirage in the Persian Gulf next week to sort of measure what do people push, pull, lift, carry and all that stuff, to get a better idea of what they do," Spivock said.

"We're not going to really know for about a year which tasks are more demanding or which jobs are more demanding."

Historically, most people in the Canadian military have all had to pass the same fitness test, said Spivock, who holds a doctoral degree in health promotion.

"What we've decided was that it might make more sense to break this up by the three environments," he said.

"Our current fitness standard is 20 years old, and with changes in technology, changes in the nature of warfare, changes in operations, there's probably a need to give (it) a facelift."

He's planning to develop different fitness standards for the army, navy and air force by 2010.

"The aim of this is to make sure that we are putting the healthiest, fittest, most capable people in operational theatre."

Civilian investigators have been assigned to study each branch of the military, as well as the elite JTF2 commandos.

"We've just launched these . . . large-scale projects to kind of get a better idea of what these people do in their jobs to then be able to prepare them better," Spivock said.

Researchers "have absolutely no idea" who has to be the most fit in the military, he said.

If it turns out that people aren't fit enough for their occupation, "then, I'm sorry, but we're going to have remedial fitness; we're not just going to just kick you out of the Forces if you can't do it," he said.

 

[gwp]

PUBLICATION: The Chronicle-Herald
DATE:        2008.08.15
SECTION:    NovaScotia
PAGE:        B2
BYLINE:      Chris Lambie Staff Reporter
WORD COUNT:    741
________________________________________
Forces: How fit is our fitness test?
________________________________________
Does a sailor who spends hours hunched over a console listening to sonar signals need to be as fit as a soldier who humps his gear through the mountains of Afghanistan?
Is there any point in making sure helicopter mechanics can do as many pushups as members of a naval boarding party who might need to scramble aboard a dhow full of unfriendly folks in the middle of the night?
"Do I know whether my pilots need to be more fit than my cooks?" said Mike Spivock, who conducts fitness research for the military.
"Well, you would imagine that maybe, yes. But, then again, lifting 80-pound bags of potatoes might be very physically demanding. So, to a certain extent, we're just going into this completely blind."
Researchers are assessing thousands of troops across the country to come up with different fitness standards for the army, navy and air force. They've already tested some sailors on the West Coast and plan to do the same in Halifax-based warships this fall.
"We're going around to all the bases and to all the wings and I'm even going to Camp Mirage in the Persian Gulf next week to sort of measure what do people push, pull, lift, carry and all that stuff, to get a better idea of what they do," Mr. Spivock said Thursday.
"We're not going to really know for about a year which tasks are more demanding or which jobs are more demanding."
Historically, most people in the Canadian military have all had to pass the same fitness test, said Mr. Spivock, who holds a doctoral degree in health promotion.
"What we've decided was that it might make more sense to break this up by the three environments," he said.
"Our current fitness standard is 20 years old, and with changes in technology, changes in the nature of warfare, changes in operations, there's probably a need to give (it) a facelift."
He's planning to develop different fitness standards for the army, navy and air force by 2010.
"The aim of this is to make sure that we are putting the healthiest, fittest, most capable people in operational theatre."
Civilian investigators have been assigned to study each branch of the military, as well as the elite JTF2 commandos.
"We've just launched these . . . large-scale projects to kind of get a better idea of what these people do in their jobs to then be able to prepare them better," Mr. Spivock said.
Researchers "have absolutely no idea" who has to be the most fit in the military, he said.
"Basically what it comes down to is whether you're tall or short, obese or thin, male of female, whether you're 18 or 58, there's a job to do and you need to be able to do that job," Mr. Spivock said. If it turns out that people aren't fit enough for their occupation, "then, I'm sorry, but we're going to have remedial fitness; we're not just going to just kick you out of the Forces if you can't do it," he said. "We're going to help people and give them every chance we can."
The army has developed its own battlefield fitness test that's "a little bit more rigorous" than the standard fitness test that requires, among other things, men under 35 be able to do 19 pushups, 19 sit-ups and a short timed run.
The study will involve physiological testing among all military occupations.
"We'll actually strap a heart rate monitor onto somebody and say, 'Go do your job for eight hours.' And then we'll come back and we'll follow the trace of their heart rate and we can say, 'You know what, this job requires exactly this level of fitness and this job requires exactly this oxygen consumption to be able to do it.' But we know how to prepare them for it and how to measure that they're actually there."
The military is hoping to use the information to develop exercise regimes that cut down on injuries, Mr. Spivock said.
Whatever happens, he doubts fitness standards will be lowered for anyone in uniform.
"Even the guys who do have sort of sedentary, day-to-day jobs, we don't evaluate only what they do in their daily job, but what they could be called to do in (an) emergency," Mr. Spivock said. "Even your sailor who is sitting looking at a periscope all day or doing something like that, if there's a fire on the ship, he's a firefighter; if there's a man overboard, he has to rescue him as well."
As the military fights to stave off attrition, he is aware of the need not to make new standards so onerous that people leave the Forces in droves.
"If this is not handled properly, of course there could be an issue around retention," Mr. Spivock said. "And that's why our goal is to develop this culture in which it just makes sense for people to want to stay, to want to be fit and to want to improve themselves."
( 'Our current fitness standard is 20 years old . . . there's probably a need to give (it)
a facelift.'

 

[George Wallace]

I would think that this is a silly/dumb move.  The CF as a whole, no matter what Trade, no matter what Environment, has to have high standards of physical fitness.  This article is an oversimplification of someone's argument.  When I read it, I suddenly saw Naval Sensor Operators falling out of their oversized chairs due to having strokes at the early age of 25.  This is ridiculous. 

Who gets selected for a Boarding Party?  Who gets chosen to repel an attack?  These are jobs that can fall on ANY member of the CF.  Just because you may be a driver, doesn't mean you can  let your physical fitness drop.  What would you do in the middle of nowhere Afghanistan if your vehicle broke down? 

We train for the worse case scenarios.  Physical Fitness is part of that training.  In the end, one's physical fitness may be the one and only thing that will save their life.


Obesity kills.

 

[2 Cdo]

I would think that this is a silly/dumb move.  The CF as a whole, no matter what Trade, no matter what Environment, has to have high standards of physical fitness.  This article is an oversimplification of someone's argument.  When I read it, I suddenly saw Naval Sensor Operators falling out of their oversized chairs due to having strokes at the early age of 25.  This is ridiculous. 

Who gets selected for a Boarding Party?  Who gets chosen to repel an attack?  These are jobs that can fall on ANY member of the CF.  Just because you may be a driver, doesn't mean you can  let your physical fitness drop.  What would you do in the middle of nowhere Afghanistan if your vehicle broke down? 

We train for the worse case scenarios.  Physical Fitness is part of that training.  In the end, one's physical fitness may be the one and only thing that will save their life.


Obesity kills.

Well said George! As an aside, our PT standard is already pathetically low and any justification for lowering it further will hurt the CF in the long run. At my age I can still keep up with most of the 20-somethings, it really only comes down to personal drive. (Not counting people injured or on a medical category, before anyone calls me heartless)

 

[blacktriangle]

Fitness is a big part of why I CT'd to the Infantry...I couldn't respect myself if I wasn't fit. How could anyone else?

 

[2 Cdo]

Fitness is a big part of why I CT'd to the Infantry...I couldn't respect myself if I wasn't fit. How could anyone else?

After 20+ years in the Forces it seems quite a few members don't have any issues with being slovenly, out of shape, obese members.(For those who I've witnessed falling out of the Expres test after the FIRST 20 meters! :rage

 

[Run away gun]

They should start by cutting desserts out of the menu not dropping fitness standards.

 

[blacktriangle]

I did a brief stint teaching elementary school gym class as a coop placement, and I had fat little Grade 4's even make it past the first few levels of the shuttle run.

Pathetic

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

They should start by cutting desserts out of the menu not dropping fitness standards.

What are we 5 years old? As members of CF we are suppose to be adults and can make our own decisions..if we follow the food guide and maintain a decent level of fitness cutting out certain foods is not the answer. Eating them in moderation goes a lot further. If you decide you need to have that 4th slice of apple pie at lunch then you have to wake up.

 

[Run away gun]

Look around the CF, I don't think plan A is working. Time to switch to plan B.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Article on Project SOAR.

So I'll ask this question.  Do the US Army, Marines, Air Force and Navy all have the exact same PT testing standards?  How about the Brits?  Australia?

 

[jacksparrow]

Hmmm....interesting debate

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Look around the CF, I don't think plan A is working. Time to switch to plan B.

So will you be removing coffee and tea as well with cream and sugar? Because that too taken to excess has the same effect. Anything too much is bad...

 

[Snafu-Bar]

Well being a relative noob here and having no experience within the military itself, i will throw myself on the spikes of self opinion.

Fitness is a general health requirement. The CF obviously wishes to have a minimum standard that ALL members must maintain and adhere to. The jobs within the forces are varied and have vastly different requirements pertaining directly to the task being done. Having the CF wide minimum standard(for all members) and then a task specific fitness level would accomplish the differing levels of fitness according to the requirments of the jobs being done.

Just my take on how to deal with it if it's not already being delt with.

Cheers.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

My concern is likely the same as many others...that the currently low standard will be allowed to go lower.

The CF already does have different PT standards for some trades, such as firefighters, SAR Techs, CSOR, JTF 2, etc.  The EXPRES test is the standard for all CF personnel posted to units outside the CLS, exempt trades listed earlier.

Are we not just expanding on a current practice folks?

 

[Run away gun]

So will you be removing coffee and tea as well with cream and sugar? Because that too taken to excess has the same effect. Anything too much is bad...

Coffee itself is not bad for you. Chalked full of creamers and sugar though, yeah it's not great for you. Desserts like twinkies and Joe Louis'  are chalked full of fats, not all that great for you. In moderation I guess anything is acceptable. But it appears that at least a sizable portion of the force cannot decifer what moderation is. Or maybe it comes down to daily PT?

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Daily PT works for me

 

[Blackadder1916]

This could be a positive move.  Nowhere in the article do I see any indication that the principal researcher is beginning this project with the notion that some trades do not have to meet the current minimum standards.  If anything, the perception seems to be that standards (and thus testing to that standard) for some occupations need to be higher.  In some of those occupations (cbt arms for example) there is no occupation specific fitness standard, one that is published and tested to anyway.  However, from experience, there is a different fitness standard in those units that is usually enforced, albeit informally.

The principle of universality of service has already been challenged and successfully defended.  So the expectation should be that common (battlefield) physical tasks will be included in the measurement process, as well as those common physical tasks that one could be required to perform (even occasionally) at sea or in support of air operations.  Thus there is a good possibility that CF fitness standards may rise.

We went through a similar exercise back in the 80s, though the measurement of tasks was probably limited to what was necessary to get through basic training and a study to determine which occupations needed to lift the most weight.  The testing regime that came out of that was the EXPRES test, though it was significantly altered from the original proposal to accommodate the numbers that needed to be tested.  Hopefully what comes from this study translates into easily conducted and cost effective fitness tests.

 

[Nad]

"The CF as a whole, no matter what Trade, no matter what Environment, has to have high standards of physical fitness."{

Then, how can you justify the vast difference in standards between a male under 34 and a female over 34?
Won't they be treated alike in the battlefield by the enemy?
If the CF can justify this difference, then there can be different standards for different trades as well.

 

[Greymatters]

Someone with an HR background trying to force singular occupational standards on the CF - without considering that the occupational title means nothing - since the primary duty of every CF member is to be able to act as an able-bodied member of security enforcement or humanitarian assistance at some time or other...