RCAF pilots promotion and rank upgrade!

[Dionysus055]

Hi everyone!
I have a question about how pilots get promotion and rank upgrades (when you get in via ROTP or DEO). I’ve heard you’re OCdt until you finish BMOQ and University, then you’re promoted 2LT. You’ll stay 2LT until you get your wings then become LT. From there, once you complete the OTU, you become Captain. Is that accurate? Is that still the case with the long wait time between training phases? If it takes you 4-5 years to get your wings, will you stay 2LT that whole time?
Thanks

 

[dimsum]

Hi everyone!
I have a question about how pilots get promotion and rank upgrades (when you get in via ROTP or DEO). I’ve heard you’re OCdt until you finish BMOQ and University, then you’re promoted 2LT. You’ll stay 2LT until you get your wings then become LT. From there, once you complete the OTU, you become Captain. Is that accurate? Is that still the case with the long wait time between training phases? If it takes you 4-5 years to get your wings, will you stay 2LT that whole time?
Thanks

Not exactly.

My info may be a bit dated but you're correct until the wings part. Once you get wings, depending on how long you were a 2Lt you may be "double-promoted" to Capt.

So yes, you are likely to stay as a 2Lt until wings, however long that takes.

 

[OldSolduer]

So yes, you are likely to stay as a 2Lt until wings, however long that takes.

And 2Lts are not to be trusted with a map and compass.

 

[Good2Golf]

Like @dimsum, my info is dated, but I do think it is current with the extant policy (@dapaterson may have the pulse on the precise policy). There was a chained length of service clause that as a 2Lt under training, once you were awarded your wings, if your cumulative commissioned time in training was greater than 3 years, you would be eligible for immediate promotion to Captain. I believe the basis was commissioning seniority, and that pre-wings training was historically of short enough duration that it occurred primarily within the first year of commissioned service as a 2Lt, and thereafter there was a clause that after two years as an Lt (aligned with the commissioning date), one was essentially promoted to Capt. Prior to, let’s say the mid/late-90s, when the training system was churning out 125-130+ pilots a year (it wasn’t unusual to walk out onto the line at Moose Jaw and see 100+ Tutors spread out in two rows as far as the eye could see), that meant that many winged pilots served between one and two years as an Lt, before being promoted to Capt. As training time to wings extended to years vice months, the ‘2 years as an Lt’ became overtaken by a direct promotion to Capt since wings often/usually were awarded after the ‘1-yr as 2Lt, 2-yr as Lt’ period.

 

[Good2Golf]

And 2Lts are not to be trusted with a map and compass.

And flying 2Lts can get lost at several hundred kilometers per hour!!!

 

[OldSolduer]

And flying 2Lts can get lost at several hundred kilometers per hour!!!

Not a good thing I would think

 

[Good2Golf]

Not a good thing I would think

If you give them long enough, theoretically they’ll circle the globe and end up back where they first got lost..

 

[Halifax Tar]

Not a good thing I would think

Google maps ?

 

[dimsum]

Google maps ?

How dare you take that away from ACSOs!

(yes, yes...they are more "weapons/tactics" than "navigating" now...)

 

[Dionysus055]

Like @dimsum, my info is dated, but I do think it is current with the extant policy (@dapaterson may have the pulse on the precise policy). There was a chained length of service clause that as a 2Lt under training, once you were awarded your wings, if your cumulative commissioned time in training was greater than 3 years, you would be eligible for immediate promotion to Captain. I believe the basis was commissioning seniority, and that pre-wings training was historically of short enough duration that it occurred primarily within the first year of commissioned service as a 2Lt, and thereafter there was a clause that after two years as an Lt (aligned with the commissioning date), one was essentially promoted to Capt. Prior to, let’s say the mid/late-90s, when the training system was churning out 125-130+ pilots a year (it wasn’t unusual to walk out onto the line at Moose Jaw and see 100+ Tutors spread out in two rows as far as the eye could see), that meant that many winged pilots served between one and two years as an Lt, before being promoted to Capt. As training time to wings extended to years vice months, the ‘2 years as an Lt’ became overtaken by a direct promotion to Capt since wings often/usually were awarded after the ‘1-yr as 2Lt, 2-yr as Lt’ period.

Oh alright. I understand now. Thank you for the explanation.

While I'm at it, I've heard about Gates in Captain PI, do you have an idea of what it is?
Thanks

 

[dapaterson]

For Pilots Capt / Maj / LCol, there are qualifications you much reach to have higher incentive pay categories available.

 

[Zoomie]

there are four ”gates” spread out over the 20 incentive pay levels for Captain (pilot). Each mbr only needs to pass through each gate once in their career - usually each gate involves progressing significantly through milestones associated with being a Pilot. There are no “gates” for Major or LCol Pilots.

 

[BrianWL]

And 2Lts are not to be trusted with a map and compass.

Good point, never truly understood why a commission is an absolute requirement to be a pilot

 

[SupersonicMax]

there are four ”gates” spread out over the 20 incentive pay levels for Captain (pilot). Each mbr only needs to pass through each gate once in their career - usually each gate involves progressing significantly through milestones associated with being a Pilot. There are no “gates” for Major or LCol Pilots.

It’s important to note that the gating system hasn’t been implemented yet and is still very much being defined.

 

[dimsum]

Good point, never truly understood why a commission is an absolute requirement to be a pilot

Because currently, pilots are officers and from policy set in the 1990s, officers require degrees. Whether pilots need to be officers is a topic debated in many threads here.

 

[Good2Golf]

Because currently, pilots are officers and from policy set in the 1990s, officers require degrees. Whether pilots need to be officers is a topic debated in many threads here.

Rescinding the mandatory degreeing of the Officer Corps per the Withers Report would be a start….hence why it will never happen.

 

[dapaterson]

Not the Withers report, the report to the MND on leadership and management of the CAF

Of course, we could always revisit the "all pilots are officers" question...

 

[Navy_Pete]

Because currently, pilots are officers and from policy set in the 1990s, officers require degrees. Whether pilots need to be officers is a topic debated in many threads here.

I'm not really sure if pilots being NCOs instead would be better, can you see a pilot going to CWO with a separate pay scale?

I think it's a bit easier to have specialst officers (like medical, lawyers etc) and just waive the undergrad degree requirement of pilots. Still will get a lot join with some kind of degree that try to go pilot, but should still be able to get teh tick in the box with staff college.

 

[dapaterson]

Treat Pilots like most Army branches: lots of folks not streamed for command who will only ever fly (NCMs) and a smaller group who will be trained and educated for institutional command, leadership and management positions.

In other words, most pilots should be flying MSE Ops, with a small number of flying transport officers.

 

[dimsum]

Of course, we could always revisit the "all pilots are officers" question...