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RAF to shrink to World War One levels

PegcityNavy

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From the Daily Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/defence/7931465/RAF-to-shrink-to-World-War-One-levels.html

In the most significant changes to Britain’s defences since the post-Suez review of 1957, ministers and officials plan to scrap large parts of the Armed Forces.

The Services will lose up to 16,000 personnel, hundreds of tanks, scores of fighter jets and half a dozen ships, under detailed proposals passed to The Daily Telegraph.


But the RAF will bear the brunt of the planned cuts. The Air Force will lose 7,000 airmen – almost one sixth of its total staff – and 295 aircraft. The cuts will leave the Force with fewer than 200 fighter planes for the first time since 1914. In addition, the Navy will lose two submarines, three amphibious ships and more than 100 senior officers, along with 2,000 sailors and marines.

The Army faces a 40 per cent cut to its fleet of 9,700 armoured vehicles and the loss of a 5,000-strong brigade of troops.

The Telegraph has also learnt that the “black hole” in MoD finances, caused by orders which have been made but cannot be paid for, is approaching £72  billion over the next decade – double the amount previously suggested.

While the Strategic Defence and Security Review is yet to be finalised, officials have drawn up a series of likely options to meet cuts of 10 to 20 per cent demanded by the Treasury.

By the end of this month the Defence Strategy Group, comprising ministers and military chiefs, will be presented with a number of recommendations that they will refine and pass to the National Security Council, chaired by the Prime Minister, in September.

In October, after agreement with the Treasury, an announcement will be made in Parliament on precisely what cuts the Forces face as part of the comprehensive spending review of Whitehall budgets.

If implemented, the cuts will mean that Britain will almost certainly depart the world stage as a major military power and become what military chiefs call a “medium-scale player”.

The proposed cuts – which are certain to face a critical reception from the public – are being considered without resolving the question of who pays for the Trident replacement. The MoD hopes that once voters realise the scale of the cuts to the Armed Forces, George Osborne, the Chancellor, may spare some parts of the military. The plans will lead to the RAF losing its status as the fifth biggest air force in the world.

The entire force of 120 GR4 Tornado fighter-bombers looks destined for the scrap heap to save £7.5 billion over the next five years. The Tornado was supposed to be in service until 2025, but with a major overhaul due in the next five years costing £10 million for each aircraft, it is now under threat.

The cut will mean job losses as RAF Lossiemouth and RAF Marham totalling almost 5,000 personnel.

Under the plans, the number of Eurofighter Typhoons is likely to be reduced further from 160 to 107 planes based at a single RAF airfield to save £1  billion. The entire fleet of 36 Hercules transport aircraft, the workhorse in Iraq and Afghanistan, is to be phased out and replaced by an order of 22 new A400M planes.

The £3.6 billion project for nine Nimrod MR4 reconnaissance aircraft is also vulnerable, along with a number of other surveillance planes.

The proposals include a swathe of cuts to the Army’s armoured regiments with the loss of Challenger 2 tanks, AS90 guns and Warrior armoured vehicles.

While the Army is likely to lose a few thousand soldiers in the coming year, reducing its numbers to about 100,000, it is braced to lose an entire brigade of about 5,000 when combat troops withdraw from Afghanistan in 2015. It is understood that 7 Armoured Brigade or 20 Armoured Brigade, both based in Germany, are the most vulnerable.

Infantry battalions will be increased from about 600 troops to 750 as a lesson from Afghanistan has been the loss of combat effectiveness through leave and casualties, according to the plans.

The Royal Marines also face coming under direct Army control from Navy command and the possibility of being grouped into a “super elite” unit alongside two Parachute Regiment battalions.

A senior Whitehall source said: “These are not Tory cuts, these are Labour cuts as a result of their irresponsible overspending. However, a lot of this comes down to how much political appetite there is to do this.”

An MoD spokesman said: “The Defence Secretary has made clear that tough decisions will need to be made but the complex process of a Strategic Defence and Security Review will be concluded in the autumn and speculation at this stage about its outcome is entirely unfounded.”
 
jollyjacktar said:
Sounds like there might be a nice yard sale coming.

Couple subs at a good price? ::)

I wonder how all the jobs will be cut though? I can't imagine they would simply fire that many people without some serious backlash in some form or another. Would there be that much attrition over the next couple years that they could scale back by simply freezing their recruiting?
 
VIChris said:
I wonder how all the jobs will be cut though?

Offer early retirement incentives along with cutting recruiting.

Worked well for us.
 
CDN Aviator said:
Offer early retirement incentives along with cutting recruiting.

Worked well for us.

I guess that's about the only way to keep the peace. Even still those will be some expensive cuts in the short term depending on the packages offered.
 
Pegcity said:
...In addition, the Navy will lose two submarines, three amphibious ships and more than 100 senior officers, along with 2,000 sailors and marines...

Hey!! The Canadian Navy is recruiting!!

;D
 
Very sad time for Her Majesty's Forces. I hope it does not come back and bite them which sadly it will most likely do.
 
Just don't imagine that something similar won't happen here, whatever party is the government, since it's been going on a long time.  Yet each of our services still insists on having the equipment to perform essentially all the roles the CF had when the Cold War had just ended. 

That is, sadly, nuts.  A real thinkover is needed.  Canadian politicians and most senior bureaucrats are intellectually and by knowledge unable to deal with the questions involved.  The services, if they do not do the thinking and make money-saving and restructuring proposals themelves, will get screwed again--and with some reason.

Mark
Ottawa
 
Ok but lets look at what is on the chopping block.
Some of the equipment is sure to be phased out due to age or redundancy.
How old are their Hercs? Are some as age as ours?
The Nimrods are from the 50's and in May I saw one in York that had recently been donated to a musem with the caveat that if the RAF needed it back they were coming to get it. Along with the two Tornadoes that were on the tarmac.
What ships are going and what are their ages? Are they really going or just into mothballs and stores?
Its going to be interesting to watch thats for sure.
 
MarkOttawa said:
  Yet each of our services still insists on having the equipment to perform essentially all the roles the CF had when the Cold War had just ended. 

And what roles and equipment might that be ?
 
mover1 said:
The Nimrods are from the 50's and in May I saw one in York that had recently been donated to a musem with the caveat that if the RAF needed it back they were coming to get it.
The MR4 is an extensive remanufacture of the MR2 aircraft from the ground up.  The aircraft is stripped, the outer wings cut off, and the centre box, including both inner wings, are removed from the fuselage which is reduced to the bare metal.  The cockpit is rebuilt as an all-glass cockpit (which also eliminated the flight engineer) and the sensors/weapons fit are all new.  In effect it’s a brand new MPA.
 
Lex Parsimoniae said:
  In effect it’s a brand new MPA.

Hardly. Its no more a new aircraft ( in effect or otherwise) that the block 3 Aurora will be. You can upgrade whatever you want on a 1967 Chevelle, it's still a 1967 Chevelle. An upgraded aircraft shows every single year of age it has.

The fact remains that the Nimrod MR2s were retired prematurely and that the MR4 is not ready for release to service.
 
Ex-Dragoon said:
Very sad time for Her Majesty's Forces. I hope it does not come back and bite them which sadly it will most likely do.

They are pissing away their country with multiculturalism and political correctness.  I don't think then need to worry about a military invasion from outside their borders. 
Sad that a most powerful ally could be less capable of stepping up and helping out in the future. 
 
MarkOttawa said:
Just don't imagine that something similar won't happen here, whatever party is the government, since it's been going on a long time.  Yet each of our services still insists on having the equipment to perform essentially all the roles the CF had when the Cold War had just ended. 

That is, sadly, nuts.  A real thinkover is needed.  Canadian politicians and most senior bureaucrats are intellectually and by knowledge unable to deal with the questions involved.  The services, if they do not do the thinking and make money-saving and restructuring proposals themelves, will get screwed again--and with some reason.

Mark
Ottawa
I disagree. 
At the end of the Cold War, Canada had four brigades, lots of tanks, fighters, etc and so forth.  The wall fell, and we cut cut cut.
Do not forget that we had a "plan" (not rooted in reality) at the beginning of the 21st century to make our forces look a "certain way".  Then, when we actually started getting shot at, we re-invested in such "mill stones" as Main Battle Tanks, Medium Lift Helicopters, etc.
Anyway, I absolutely abhor the manner in which the term "Cold War" is bandied about as though it were this great ugly beast, bereft of thought and focussed solely on reducing the Soviet Union of its tank fleet.  The fact of the matter is that our forces were at certain levels in the Cold War due to the threat.  We had certain equipment (weapons, vehicles, etc) because they were (and still are) the exact type of equipment an army (in this case) needs to fight wars, be they cold, hot, or in between.
 
zipperhead_cop said:
They are pissing away their country with multiculturalism and political correctness.  I don't think then need to worry about a military invasion from outside their borders. 
Sad that a most powerful ally could be less capable of stepping up and helping out in the future.

Not only that but previous knobs such as Brown and Blair economically ran the country into the ground.  My wife's family are all still there and what they tell makes one's head spin and shake in wonder and disgust.  It's not wonder they have to reduce what forces they have left from earlier reductions.  They really are flat assed broke.  Just like the Yanks are, although they won't admit it as yet.
 
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