Question about pay level, my offer, and my finacial rights.

[old man neri]

So I searched but I had trouble knowing what to search for.

Here is my story.

I have been the the reserves(aka the SAS - Saturdays And Sundays) for 5 years, with a combined total of one year of ED&T. I am going regs and got my DEO offer (yay me!). They offered me 'PI FOUR IC' in accordance with 'CBI 204.211 Table B Level C'. Now a quick google search turned up the referenced CBI and subsequent table (scroll down a bit). It's a lot of money. I asked the recruiter about this, even she was surprised by what they offered me, she is currently looking into whether or not there was an error. Now DND being sometimes a little slow at verifying things (especially as it is getting close to the holidays) I am worried that I will be over paid but then they will ask for the money back. My question is if DND can ask for the money back? If so if there a maximum period they can do this in? Does it have to be in the fiscal year? Also, if I sign my offer that has that stated pay level can DND still lower it later and ask for the money back?

I can PM anyone with complete offer if they want. I just don't want to broadcast the specifics to everyone.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated in case DND doesn't get back to my recruiter in time.
-Thanks!

 

[Pte_Martin]

It all depends on you time, i can't remember how it works out for class A but the more class b or c you have  the better. That way it equals more time for reg force. When i transferred i had about three and a half years, and PLQ 1-5, they sent me in as a PTE 2 and i went and did battle school. I've been told that i should have gotten more, and I've also been told i should have gotten less, so I'm pretty sure it's up to the recruiter they are you best bet to bug and see what they say

 

[navymich]

It all depends on you time, i can't remember how it works out for class A but the more class b or c you have  the better.

Class B and C are one for one.  For Class A, 4 days equal 1 day.

 

[George Wallace]

I have been the the reserves(aka the SAS - Saturdays And Sundays) for 5 years, with a combined total of one year of ED&T. I am going regs and got my DEO offer (yay me!). They offered me 'PI FOUR IC' in accordance with 'CBI 204.211 Table B Level C'. Now a quick google search turned up the referenced CBI and subsequent table (scroll down a bit). It's a lot of money. I asked the recruiter about this, even she was surprised by what they offered me, she is currently looking into whether or not there was an error. Now DND being sometimes a little slow at verifying things (especially as it is getting close to the holidays) I am worried that I will be over paid but then they will ask for the money back.

Perhaps they did make a mistake, if all you have done is Class A Service for five years (which would give you 1.25 years).

My question is if DND can ask for the money back?

Yes they can.

If so if there a maximum period they can do this in?

No.  They can begin immediate recovery of the funds.  They should do it over equal payments over a three month pay period, but sometimes insensitive Pay Officers will take it all back as one lumpsum payment.

Does it have to be in the fiscal year?

No.

Also, if I sign my offer that has that stated pay level can DND still lower it later and ask for the money back?

Yes they can.

 

[Trinity]

My understanding.. from my pay clerk

if you report the error.. you have the amount of time it
took for the error to be caught to pay back the amount.

I.e. it took 5 months to catch (and You reported it)
you have up to 5 months to repay.

I had a similar problem over 2000 and they wanted it back
right away.. and I laughed cause it was all in tuition at that
point... however, I caught the mistake. 

I need a FIN clerk to support me on this one.. but I'm pretty sure
I'm in the right lane.

 

[Haggis]

They can begin immediate recovery of the funds.  They should do it over equal payments over a three month pay period, but sometimes insensitive Pay Officers will take it all back as one lumpsum payment.

If you think you're being overpaid and you're pretty sure you're gonna have to pay it back, take the "extra" money and put it into a high interest savings account.  Then, once the bean counters admit their error, and demand repayment, you have the cash available without putting yourself through any financial hardship and you've earned some interest from it in the meantime.

If it turns out that you're not being overpaid, you've already established the discipline to live without $xx every month and have in place a savings plan.

It's win-win for you.

 

[Long in the tooth]

Big caveat - class B is not 1 for 1, only if each contract is over 90 days.  89 days counts as class A.  Your time will be counted 4 different ways - for rank, IPC, CD and pensionable time.  Rank and IPC are the perview of the career manager.  Supply and demand.  Good luck.

 

[The_Falcon]

Until your pay issue is 100% resolved, DO NOT go spending the money.  Stick the extra cash in an ing or presidents choice account, that way you won't be as tempted to spend it, and as a bonus, if you get to keep it, you will have already started earning interest on it .

edit haggis beat me by like a minute.

Big caveat - class B is not 1 for 1, only if each contract is over 90 days.  89 days counts as class A.  Your time will be counted 4 different ways - for rank, IPC, CD and pensionable time.  Rank and IPC are the perview of the career manager.  Supply and demand.  Good luck.

Since when is Class B only 1 for if the contrat is over 90 days?

 

[old man neri]

Thank you all for your replies. I guess the short version is 'DND can do whatever it wants'

I don't start getting paid till I am in St. Jean in January, hopefully it will be resolved by then. I won't spend the money, I mean it's not like I can spend a lot of money while at IAP/BOTC in St.Jean anyways. I probably will just dump it into my ING account and just let it sit there. No mutual funds or RRSPs for me I guess....lol

Cheers and thank you all!

 

[Long in the tooth]

The pension act... it's not driven by the military.  It clearly states a 90 day 1 for 1 requirement.  I just had my pension recalculated as I'll have 30 years Res and Reg in Mar 07.  Believe me, I have a vested interest in this one.

 

[PoPo]

Hi Old Man Neri - In regards to recoveries and overpayments check out CFAO 203-3 -- PREVENTION AND DETECTION OF OVERPAYMENTS AND RECOVERIES FROM PAY it talks about members responsibility etc.

http://www.smafinsm.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/203-03_e.asp

As everyone else has stated, you may wish to "hold out" on spending all monies paid to you until a complete verification has been completed and you have been assured that the rate/table quoted is correct.  You can have your clerk "withhold" $$$ each DFT (direct funds transfer)awaiting clarification.

Hope this helps

PoPo

 

[The_Falcon]

The pension act... it's not driven by the military.  It clearly states a 90 day 1 for 1 requirement.  I just had my pension recalculated as I'll have 30 years Res and Reg in Mar 07.  Believe me, I have a vested interest in this one.

Pension and what your pay will be when you CT are two different things.  When you CT class B is still counted as 1 for 1 in determining your IPC (CBI 204.015), there is no stipulation on contract length.

 

[beach_bum]

That is correct.  Class B or C service regardless of length of contract is counted as 1 for 1.  Class A time is counted as quarter time.  This does not mean how many days you parade by the way.  One year of Class A time counts for 3 months, regardless if you paraded 300 days in that year or 20.  NES and ED & T time is deducted of course.

 

[Long in the tooth]

Yes, there is, read the pension act.  Done and done.

 

[beach_bum]

Yes, there is, read the pension act.  Done and done.

I think we are talking about two different things here.  One being pension, the other being pay.  I do know how pay and IPC is figured out, and that's what I was explaining.  As for pension....I haven't read into it.

 

[Zoomie]

My pension buy back was calculated when I transferred and every day of Class B/C was counted 1 for 1 - none of this over 90 days business.  If there was a mistake, they will catch it in about 15 years...

 

[The_Falcon]

I think this is what warn out grunt is referring to

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-17/226563.html#rid-226564

Canadian Forces Superannuation Act (Btw the Worn Out Grunt the Pension Act is something else entirely, having do with disability benefits payed out by DVA)

Section 6 para (b)(ii)(G)

any continuous period of full-time service of three months or more in the Canadian Forces or in the naval, army or air forces of Her Majesty raised by Canada, other than the regular force, if he elects, within one year of becoming a contributor under this Act, to pay for that service,

In any case, this is NOT what we were discussing worn out grunt.  We were discussing how a person's rank/ipc level is determined when they COMPONENT TRANSFER from the PRes to the Regs, which is all covered under the CBIs, specifically for the second time CBI 402.015.  Perhaps you should take a look at them before you post again, and confuse CTing with pensions, as they are SEPERATE things.

 

[old man neri]

UPDATE:

Good thing they looked into it, I dropped from level 4 to level 2. I am sure they would have ended up finding out about it later on anyways. Now I have no worries and can feel free to invest my money as I see fit.

Thanks and Cheers!

 

[armyvern]

Glad you got that sorted out Old Man,

So, with that, I'll lock this up.

Anybody feels the need for it to be re-opened for future input, feel free to PM a mod.

Vern