PRes - Promotion to Maj without AOC qual

[Jjc]

Senior PRes Captain here (13 years in rank). I am at the point in my civilian career/business where I am unable to take 3 consecutive weeks to complete the final residency portion of PRes AOC in Kingston. I own and operate a business that simply makes it impossible to be away for 3 weeks as I have no backfill able to legally fulfill my duties. I do have ATOC, AJOSQ, CAFJOD, etc.

My CO is keen on trying to accomodate me somehow to get promoted without the final mod of AOC under my belt. Can that happen? I know it happens in the RegF but I have not seen any first hand cases of it in the PRes. It would be doable to get tutorials 1-2 done, but tutorial 3 in Kingston is the challenge.

My CO is also talking about potentially trying to write it off somehow, although I'm not sure how difficult that would be. He thinks in this climate of recruiting/retention, it may be easier to get some of it PLAR'd, etc. I think that is a long shot personally but figured I'd ask to get other opinions.

 

[MJP]

Senior PRes Captain here (13 years in rank). I am at the point in my civilian career/business where I am unable to take 3 consecutive weeks to complete the final residency portion of PRes AOC in Kingston. I own and operate a business that simply makes it impossible to be away for 3 weeks as I have no backfill able to legally fulfill my duties. I do have ATOC, AJOSQ, CAFJOD, etc.

My CO is keen on trying to accomodate me somehow to get promoted without the final mod of AOC under my belt. Can that happen? I know it happens in the RegF but I have not seen any first hand cases of it in the PRes. It would be doable to get tutorials 1-2 done, but tutorial 3 in Kingston is the challenge.

My CO is also talking about potentially trying to write it off somehow, although I'm not sure how difficult that would be. He thinks in this climate of recruiting/retention, it may be easier to get some of it PLAR'd, etc. I think that is a long shot personally but figured I'd ask to get other opinions.

I am making the assumption you are a Log O based on logistics badge in in profile so if not the below might be moot

Don't have a suggestion for the PLAR aspect but did want to mention that there a handful of CA LOG Os promoted to Major as it is just 1-2 points on the script.


Some go after being promoted but lots don't. It might be one of the better angles to work through the issue.

 

[Jjc]

Yes, indeed. LOG-LAND employed by an Cbt Arms unit in an ANY TRADE position on the establishment. There is an ANY TRADE Maj position waiting for me.

I'm not sure what you mean by 1-2 points on the script - could you elaborate on that?

Thanks!

 

[dapaterson]

Yes, indeed. LOG-LAND employed by an Cbt Arms unit in an ANY TRADE position on the establishment. There is an ANY TRADE Maj position waiting for me.

I'm not sure what you mean by 1-2 points on the script - could you elaborate on that?

Thanks!

MJP is referring to Reg F promotion processes.

 

[MJP]

Yes, indeed. LOG-LAND employed by an Cbt Arms unit in an ANY TRADE position on the establishment. There is an ANY TRADE Maj position waiting for me.

I'm not sure what you mean by 1-2 points on the script - could you elaborate on that?

Thanks!

SCRIT stands for scoring criteria, my bad I usually spell out abbreviations.

As @dapaterson mentions it is used for RegF promotion boards. I didn't get into it because I don't think that's how the reserve promotions work. My larger point was that RegF Logistics officers do not need to go get AOC to get promoted

 

[daftandbarmy]

Senior PRes Captain here (13 years in rank). I am at the point in my civilian career/business where I am unable to take 3 consecutive weeks to complete the final residency portion of PRes AOC in Kingston. I own and operate a business that simply makes it impossible to be away for 3 weeks as I have no backfill able to legally fulfill my duties. I do have ATOC, AJOSQ, CAFJOD, etc.

My CO is keen on trying to accomodate me somehow to get promoted without the final mod of AOC under my belt. Can that happen? I know it happens in the RegF but I have not seen any first hand cases of it in the PRes. It would be doable to get tutorials 1-2 done, but tutorial 3 in Kingston is the challenge.

My CO is also talking about potentially trying to write it off somehow, although I'm not sure how difficult that would be. He thinks in this climate of recruiting/retention, it may be easier to get some of it PLAR'd, etc. I think that is a long shot personally but figured I'd ask to get other opinions.

Dude, if you can't use the Army as a reason to get away from work and the family for a couple of weeks you need a different kind of training

 

[Jjc]

Hah - agreed. Unfortunately (fortunately?) I own the business - the financial risk is huge and there is regulation in place that makes it critical for my clients to be able to reach me to process transactions, etc. in a timely manner. 3 weeks is simply too much cost/risk for my livelihood.

 

[Zoomie]

Is AOC a PD requirement for CA Majors?

JCSP isn’t even needed until Colonel - I didn’t think there were PD requirements for promotion to Major.

 

[Ostrozac]

Is AOC a PD requirement for CA Majors?

JCSP isn’t even needed until Colonel - I didn’t think there were PD requirements for promotion to Major.

Oddly enough, even though the Regular Force will happily promote Army officers to Majors without AOC, the Army Reserve currently seems to be enforcing a mandatory AOC requirement for promotion to Major. Not sure where the reference for that is, nor what was the root of the idea that reservists are more available for such a long course than their regular counterparts.

 

[Weinie]

Is AOC a PD requirement for CA Majors?

JCSP isn’t even needed until Colonel - I didn’t think there were PD requirements for promotion to Major.

It depends how much your Branch values PD IRT SCRITS. I sat many promotion boards, PD was a major part of the SCRITS for my branch.

 

[Staff Weenie]

If AOC is the only thing missing for substantive promotion, would an Acting While So Employed, or Acting/Lacking work to put you into the vacant Maj position? I believe AWSE can carry on indefinitely as long as you're in the Maj position, but A/L buys you two years to get the course done or revert in rank. The downfall to both, is you would be stuck in that position and rank, and ultimately hold up anyone below you. This may not be that much of an issue in your unit, but I've seen it hold promising careers up in other places.

 

[dapaterson]

CAO 29-12 is the Army Reserve Career progression policy; only PAO, PSel, Chap and Music do not require AOC for substantive promotion.

 

[Staff Weenie]

CAO 29-12 is the Army Reserve Career progression policy; only PAO, PSel, Chap and Music do not require AOC for substantive promotion.

Are enough course serials offered each year to ensure this is a viable COA? For example, we don't use JCSP for HS Res, as there are only about two positions a year allocated to us. If it were a hard requirement, succession would grind to a halt.

 

[dapaterson]

Army doctrine / policy are rarely constrained by reality (cough Corps 86).

 

[daftandbarmy]

Oddly enough, even though the Regular Force will happily promote Army officers to Majors without AOC, the Army Reserve currently seems to be enforcing a mandatory AOC requirement for promotion to Major. Not sure where the reference for that is, nor what was the root of the idea that reservists are more available for such a long course than their regular counterparts.

Oh, oh, I'll go!

Because it unfairly favours Class B and C Reservists, who only have one job and an employer (the CAF) who will give them time off to study, thus ensuring that the top billets have less competition and thus ensure higher rates of bad senior Reservist leadership due to a lack of competition?

 

[Navy_Pete]

I like how the Army has Capt and Major staff officer courses; in the Navy we get a posting message. In joint ops I haven't noticed that the army folks are any better at briefings, planning development or staff work (once you figure out the specific formatting to use for army, and secure some red crayons).

 

[Brad Sallows]

Oh, oh, I'll go!

Because it unfairly favours Class B and C Reservists, who only have one job and an employer (the CAF) who will give them time off to study, thus ensuring that the top billets have less competition and thus ensure higher rates of bad senior Reservist leadership due to a lack of competition?

Ironically, a DS at the time I took the old MCSC claimed that Cl B were more likely to drop out due to work pressure...

 

[Brad Sallows]

I like how the Army has Capt and Major staff officer courses; in the Navy we get a posting message. In joint ops I haven't noticed that the army folks are any better at briefings, planning development or staff work (once you figure out the specific formatting to use for army, and secure some red crayons).

Most Res F officers probably do not learn (during their classification training) very much about how other arms and services are structured and function. They need to get that somewhere. Relatively speaking, there is only "one" kind of navy to learn about.

 

[OldSolduer]

I like how the Army has Capt and Major staff officer courses; in the Navy we get a posting message. In joint ops I haven't noticed that the army folks are any better at briefings, planning development or staff work (once you figure out the specific formatting to use for army, and secure some red crayons).

Red crayon taste goooooodddd

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I like how the Army has Capt and Major staff officer courses; in the Navy we get a posting message. In joint ops I haven't noticed that the army folks are any better at briefings, planning development or staff work (once you figure out the specific formatting to use for army, and secure some red crayons).

You obviously don't understand the point of AOC with a comment like this.

The Navy doesn't need a Command and Staff College because it has so little combat capability, it doesn't deploy anything more than single ships anyways.

The focus of AOC is on training Army Officers to operate as Brigade Staff as part of a Division. We are talking about coordination involving thousands of soldiers with hundreds of vehicles and equipment.

The Canadian Navy isn't even playing in the same league when it comes to size and scope of the exercises and operations it is required to run.