Polish Civilian and Military Leadership Killed in Crash
- Thread starter tomahawk6
- Start date
- Reaction score
- 4,172
- Points
- 1,260
Yikes! Condolences - we mourn with you.
I'm guessing this is going to be postponed - just released yesterday:
I'm guessing this is going to be postponed - just released yesterday:
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Given the high ranking nature of the passengers and the flight itself, I have to consider the possibility of a deliberate act.
I find it curious why you would ever have so many key government and military personnel traveling together?
"A scan of a list of 88 passengers aboard the plane published on a Polish government website showed the names of Poland's chief of staff, General Franciszek Gagor, and Major General Bronislaw, head of operational forces.
General Tadeusz Buk, head of land forces, air force commander Andrzej Blasik and special forces chief Wojciech Potasinki, as well as navy vice-admiral Andrzej Karweta, were also on the list."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...?section=world
I find it curious why you would ever have so many key government and military personnel traveling together?
"A scan of a list of 88 passengers aboard the plane published on a Polish government website showed the names of Poland's chief of staff, General Franciszek Gagor, and Major General Bronislaw, head of operational forces.
General Tadeusz Buk, head of land forces, air force commander Andrzej Blasik and special forces chief Wojciech Potasinki, as well as navy vice-admiral Andrzej Karweta, were also on the list."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...?section=world
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
- 127
- Points
- 710
This really is a tragedy. Such a large number of a nation's political, military and social leaders, all killed in one aircrash will take quite a toll on the nation.
Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.
Polish president among 96 killed in Russian plane crash
10/04/2010 8:13:50 AM
Article Link
CTV.ca News Staff
Polish President Lech Kaczynski and dozens of Polish dignitaries and politicians were among 96 people killed when the presidential plane crashed in western Russia on Saturday.
Russian and Polish officials said there were no survivors on the Tupolev, a Soviet-era plane. The president, his wife, Maria, and a delegation of Polish officials were on the plane for a one-and-a-half hour flight from Warsaw to attend ceremonies marking the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre, when thousands of Polish officers were killed by Soviet secret police.
The President was joined on board by the army chief of staff, the national bank president, the deputy foreign minister, an army chaplain, head of the National Security Office, the deputy parliamentary speaker, a civil rights commissioner and at least two presidential aides and three lawmakers, according to the Polish foreign ministry.
Russia's Emergency Ministry said 96 people died in the crash, 88 of whom were from the Polish delegation. Piotr Paszkowski, Poland's foreign ministry spokesperson, said there were 89 people listed on the passenger list but one person had not shown up for the flight.
"We still cannot fully understand the scope of this tragedy and what it means for us in the future. Nothing like this has ever happened in Poland," Paszkowski said. "We can assume with great certainty that all persons on board have been killed."
Poland's parliamentary speaker, the interim president, declared a national week of mourning.
The crash occurred at about 11 a.m. local time in Russia's Smolensk region. The governor of the region also said there were no survivors.
Anna Ardayeva, a reporter with Feature News Story in Moscow, said there will be an investigation into what caused the crash.
"The Russians have set up an investigative committee and investigators are trying to find out why the pilot decided to land in what looks like were unfavourable weather conditions," Ardayeva told CTV News Channel in a telephone interview Saturday morning. "It was very foggy, and according to some reports, the plane touched treetops upon landing, and then the crew lost control of it."
Footage of the crash from Russian news stations showed pieces of the plane scattered among trees, with small fires burning in the foggy woods.
The Tupolev Tu-154 was at least 20 years old. There have been 66 crashes involving Tu-154s, including six in the last five years, according to the Aviation Safety Network. Officials in Poland have discussed replacing the planes that carry Polish leaders, but said they have yet to due to lack of funds.
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev promised to work closely with Poland on the crash investigation and sent his condolences to the Polish people.
"Russia shares the grief and mourning of Poland," Medvedev said in a statement posted on the Kremlin Web site. "Please accept the most sincere condolences to the Polish people, words of compassion and support to relatives and friends of those who perished."
The Kremlin said Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin will head a commission that will investigate the crash.
Leaders from around the world joined Medvedev in issuing statements of condolence to the Polish people.
In Poland, citizens and politicians reacted to news of the crash with shock and tears. Mourners lit candles and lay flowers on the ground outside the presidential palace in Warsaw, where the flag was lowered to half mast. President Donald Tusk called an emergency meeting of cabinet.
In the Polish government, the president is commander in chief of the country's armed forces but the domestic duties of the role are mainly symbolic. Kaczynski, 60, had been president since December 2005, when he defeated Tusk in the presidential vote.
with files from The Associated Press
Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.
Polish president among 96 killed in Russian plane crash
10/04/2010 8:13:50 AM
Article Link
CTV.ca News Staff
Polish President Lech Kaczynski and dozens of Polish dignitaries and politicians were among 96 people killed when the presidential plane crashed in western Russia on Saturday.
Russian and Polish officials said there were no survivors on the Tupolev, a Soviet-era plane. The president, his wife, Maria, and a delegation of Polish officials were on the plane for a one-and-a-half hour flight from Warsaw to attend ceremonies marking the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre, when thousands of Polish officers were killed by Soviet secret police.
The President was joined on board by the army chief of staff, the national bank president, the deputy foreign minister, an army chaplain, head of the National Security Office, the deputy parliamentary speaker, a civil rights commissioner and at least two presidential aides and three lawmakers, according to the Polish foreign ministry.
Russia's Emergency Ministry said 96 people died in the crash, 88 of whom were from the Polish delegation. Piotr Paszkowski, Poland's foreign ministry spokesperson, said there were 89 people listed on the passenger list but one person had not shown up for the flight.
"We still cannot fully understand the scope of this tragedy and what it means for us in the future. Nothing like this has ever happened in Poland," Paszkowski said. "We can assume with great certainty that all persons on board have been killed."
Poland's parliamentary speaker, the interim president, declared a national week of mourning.
The crash occurred at about 11 a.m. local time in Russia's Smolensk region. The governor of the region also said there were no survivors.
Anna Ardayeva, a reporter with Feature News Story in Moscow, said there will be an investigation into what caused the crash.
"The Russians have set up an investigative committee and investigators are trying to find out why the pilot decided to land in what looks like were unfavourable weather conditions," Ardayeva told CTV News Channel in a telephone interview Saturday morning. "It was very foggy, and according to some reports, the plane touched treetops upon landing, and then the crew lost control of it."
Footage of the crash from Russian news stations showed pieces of the plane scattered among trees, with small fires burning in the foggy woods.
The Tupolev Tu-154 was at least 20 years old. There have been 66 crashes involving Tu-154s, including six in the last five years, according to the Aviation Safety Network. Officials in Poland have discussed replacing the planes that carry Polish leaders, but said they have yet to due to lack of funds.
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev promised to work closely with Poland on the crash investigation and sent his condolences to the Polish people.
"Russia shares the grief and mourning of Poland," Medvedev said in a statement posted on the Kremlin Web site. "Please accept the most sincere condolences to the Polish people, words of compassion and support to relatives and friends of those who perished."
The Kremlin said Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin will head a commission that will investigate the crash.
Leaders from around the world joined Medvedev in issuing statements of condolence to the Polish people.
In Poland, citizens and politicians reacted to news of the crash with shock and tears. Mourners lit candles and lay flowers on the ground outside the presidential palace in Warsaw, where the flag was lowered to half mast. President Donald Tusk called an emergency meeting of cabinet.
In the Polish government, the president is commander in chief of the country's armed forces but the domestic duties of the role are mainly symbolic. Kaczynski, 60, had been president since December 2005, when he defeated Tusk in the presidential vote.
with files from The Associated Press
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
This is sad. I had the honour to briefly meet the CLS of the Polish Army in Warsaw in 2008: he had a genuine professional interest in building ties between our two armies(the reason we were there). I hope this idea survives him. A terrible reminder of why it's probably better not to fly around in old Soviet-pattern aircraft.
RIP
RIP
Yrys
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 11
- Points
- 430
Queen offers sympathy to Poland after president's death
The Queen has expressed her "deepest sympathy" to the Polish government
and people after the death of President Lech Kaczynski in a plane crash.
Gordon Brown said the whole world would be "saddened" and Tory leader
David Cameron called it a "black day".
Rev Canon Bronislaw Gostomski, a priest at a Polish church in West London,
was among more than 80 passengers who died. Members of the community
in London have been gathering at a Polish cultural centre in Hammersmith
to lay flowers.
The aircraft was carrying some of the country's top military and civilian leaders,
as well as the president's wife, when it came down in thick fog as it approached
Smolensk airport, in western Russia.
The Queen has expressed her "deepest sympathy" to the Polish government
and people after the death of President Lech Kaczynski in a plane crash.
Gordon Brown said the whole world would be "saddened" and Tory leader
David Cameron called it a "black day".
Rev Canon Bronislaw Gostomski, a priest at a Polish church in West London,
was among more than 80 passengers who died. Members of the community
in London have been gathering at a Polish cultural centre in Hammersmith
to lay flowers.
The aircraft was carrying some of the country's top military and civilian leaders,
as well as the president's wife, when it came down in thick fog as it approached
Smolensk airport, in western Russia.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Technoviking said:
Still.
Imagine if you put the commanding Generals of the US Army, US Marine Corps, US Air Force, US Navy and US Special Operations Command on one plane.
Then added the President and other members of his senior cabinet.
Then it crashed.
This should NEVER have been allowed and I fail to understand why it was done in this case.
Unfortunately a lot of key decisions around the world are being made these days solely based on financial limitations.
That being said, people can be sent up a day or two earlier or by various other forms of transport without significant expense.
I am first-generation Canadian born in Montreal, but my parents were Polish (from Nowy Targ and Rymanow) and still have more family there than here.
This whole thing strikes a little too close to home for me and it pisses me F-n off.
Retired AF Guy
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 914
- Points
- 1,160
Retired AF Guy
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 914
- Points
- 1,160
Here is a link to a diagram showing the flight path and crash site:
http://visualrian.com/images/large/623102
Here is a link to a info sheet on the TU-154:
http://visualrian.com/images/large/550547
http://visualrian.com/images/large/623102
Here is a link to a info sheet on the TU-154:
http://visualrian.com/images/large/550547
Yrys
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 11
- Points
- 430
Crash focusses attention on Tupolev-154
The death of Polish President Lech Kaczynski in a plane crash is likely
to raise questions about the 20-year-old Tupolev-154 he was travelling
in. The BBC's Adam Easton reports from Warsaw that there had been
calls for Polish leaders to upgrade their planes. And in late 2008 Mr
Kaczynski had suffered a couple of scares. Problems with the aircraft's
steering mechanism delayed his departure from Mongolia, forcing him
to take a charter flight to Tokyo, and a week later the plane was caught
up in turbulence flying to Seoul.
However, the aircraft had recently undergone a major overhaul and
Aleksey Gusev, the head of the maintenance plant that carried out
the work, told Polish TV that it should not have had technical problems.
"From the moment it entered service, the plane had had 5,004 flight
hours and 1,823 landings, which for aircraft of this class is not a lot,"
he said. "The plane was flying quite well and there were no complaints."
The overhaul was completed in December and included repairing the
plane's three engines. The next major service was due in six years.
'Modernised'
The Tupolev-154 was for more than a quarter of a century the backbone
of Russia's and the Soviet Union's air transport system. It carried about
half the number of all passengers flown by Russia's national carrier
Aeroflot and its successors in that time, with that number peaking at
137 million per year in 1990. About 1,000 were built, and some remain
in service in Russia and countries that were once part of the Soviet bloc.
The aircraft entered service in 1972 and was "modernised" in 1986, with
new engines and equipment to improve its fuel consumption and flight
operations.
But as an indication of its ageing design, the Chinese government decided
in 2001 to withdraw the Tu-154 from its airlines. Aeroflot took the decision
to phase them out more recently, saying their high fuel consumption made
them uneconomic.
An expert on Russian aviation, Paul Duffy, assessed the safety record of the
Tu-154 in 2004, for the BBC News website. Of 28 lost in accidents up to that
date - a figure about normal for the quantity, years of service and technology
of the type, in his view - few had crashed because of technical failure, he said.
Unrelated problems
"The Tu-154 operates in regions with not very good air traffic control and
navigation equipment, and in very difficult weather conditions," he said at
the time. Some of the accidents had little relation to the aircraft itself, he
added.
For example, in 1982, an aircraft landing at Omsk in Russia in a heavy
snowstorm hit six snowploughs that had not been told to leave the runway
as the aircraft landed. About five had been shot down by enemy or terrorist
attacks in Lebanon, Georgia and Afghanistan during the civil wars in those
countries.
In 2001, a Tu-154 crashed into the Black Sea after being hit by a Ukrainian
missile fired during exercises. One landed safely in a field after its cargo of
cigarettes caught fire but was completely burnt. Another ran out of fuel five
miles short of the runway when the state airline of an almost bankrupt country
decided to carry less fuel from its base, where the price was high. And Swiss air
controllers accepted full responsibility for a mid-air collision between a Tu-154
and a cargo plane in July 2002.
The Tu-154 is now no longer in production.
BBC Moscow correspondent Richard Galpin says Russian airlines are not
interested in newer Tupolevs because they are not comparable with Western
planes.
Aeroflot is now buying the vast majority of its aircraft from Boeing and Airbus.
Obituary: Lech Kaczynski
Tu-154 likely not to blame for crash: expert
The death of Polish President Lech Kaczynski in a plane crash is likely
to raise questions about the 20-year-old Tupolev-154 he was travelling
in. The BBC's Adam Easton reports from Warsaw that there had been
calls for Polish leaders to upgrade their planes. And in late 2008 Mr
Kaczynski had suffered a couple of scares. Problems with the aircraft's
steering mechanism delayed his departure from Mongolia, forcing him
to take a charter flight to Tokyo, and a week later the plane was caught
up in turbulence flying to Seoul.
However, the aircraft had recently undergone a major overhaul and
Aleksey Gusev, the head of the maintenance plant that carried out
the work, told Polish TV that it should not have had technical problems.
"From the moment it entered service, the plane had had 5,004 flight
hours and 1,823 landings, which for aircraft of this class is not a lot,"
he said. "The plane was flying quite well and there were no complaints."
The overhaul was completed in December and included repairing the
plane's three engines. The next major service was due in six years.
'Modernised'
The Tupolev-154 was for more than a quarter of a century the backbone
of Russia's and the Soviet Union's air transport system. It carried about
half the number of all passengers flown by Russia's national carrier
Aeroflot and its successors in that time, with that number peaking at
137 million per year in 1990. About 1,000 were built, and some remain
in service in Russia and countries that were once part of the Soviet bloc.
The aircraft entered service in 1972 and was "modernised" in 1986, with
new engines and equipment to improve its fuel consumption and flight
operations.
But as an indication of its ageing design, the Chinese government decided
in 2001 to withdraw the Tu-154 from its airlines. Aeroflot took the decision
to phase them out more recently, saying their high fuel consumption made
them uneconomic.
An expert on Russian aviation, Paul Duffy, assessed the safety record of the
Tu-154 in 2004, for the BBC News website. Of 28 lost in accidents up to that
date - a figure about normal for the quantity, years of service and technology
of the type, in his view - few had crashed because of technical failure, he said.
Unrelated problems
"The Tu-154 operates in regions with not very good air traffic control and
navigation equipment, and in very difficult weather conditions," he said at
the time. Some of the accidents had little relation to the aircraft itself, he
added.
For example, in 1982, an aircraft landing at Omsk in Russia in a heavy
snowstorm hit six snowploughs that had not been told to leave the runway
as the aircraft landed. About five had been shot down by enemy or terrorist
attacks in Lebanon, Georgia and Afghanistan during the civil wars in those
countries.
In 2001, a Tu-154 crashed into the Black Sea after being hit by a Ukrainian
missile fired during exercises. One landed safely in a field after its cargo of
cigarettes caught fire but was completely burnt. Another ran out of fuel five
miles short of the runway when the state airline of an almost bankrupt country
decided to carry less fuel from its base, where the price was high. And Swiss air
controllers accepted full responsibility for a mid-air collision between a Tu-154
and a cargo plane in July 2002.
The Tu-154 is now no longer in production.
BBC Moscow correspondent Richard Galpin says Russian airlines are not
interested in newer Tupolevs because they are not comparable with Western
planes.
Aeroflot is now buying the vast majority of its aircraft from Boeing and Airbus.
Obituary: Lech Kaczynski
Tu-154 likely not to blame for crash: expert
- Reaction score
- 4,172
- Points
- 1,260
Message from Her Excellency the Right Honourable Michaëlle Jean, Governor General of Canada, on the death of President Lech Kaczynski
OTTAWA – It was with shock and deep sadness that my husband, Jean-Daniel Lafond, and I learned of the tragic plane crash that claimed the life of President Lech Kaczynski and all passengers and crew in Smolensk, Russia.
A brave champion of freedom and patriotic pride, as well as a pioneer of the Solidarity movement, President Kaczynski had devoted all of his energy to serving his people. His election as president of the Republic of Poland in 2005 had led him, together with his twin brother, former Prime Minister Jaroslav Kaczynski, to embark on comprehensive reforms to improve his country’s institutions.
On behalf of all Canadians, we wish to extend our sincere condolences to the families and friends of the deceased. Our thoughts are with Canada’s Polish community, which is in shock and which we know had great affection and admiration for President Kaczynski.
Michaëlle Jean
-30-
OTTAWA – It was with shock and deep sadness that my husband, Jean-Daniel Lafond, and I learned of the tragic plane crash that claimed the life of President Lech Kaczynski and all passengers and crew in Smolensk, Russia.
A brave champion of freedom and patriotic pride, as well as a pioneer of the Solidarity movement, President Kaczynski had devoted all of his energy to serving his people. His election as president of the Republic of Poland in 2005 had led him, together with his twin brother, former Prime Minister Jaroslav Kaczynski, to embark on comprehensive reforms to improve his country’s institutions.
On behalf of all Canadians, we wish to extend our sincere condolences to the families and friends of the deceased. Our thoughts are with Canada’s Polish community, which is in shock and which we know had great affection and admiration for President Kaczynski.
Michaëlle Jean
-30-
Kaczynski was the guy who wanted to fly over Georgia during the last conflict with Russia. He was crammed in one helo with other top Eastern Europe leaders but the pilot refused stating high risk with all the High Value cargo on board. Once they landed, Kaczynski vowed to press charges against the pilot for refusing to follow his order. Anyone knows what happened to that pilot?
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Kaczynski is being honoured posthumously as a National Hero of Georgia:
Saakashvili: ‘Kaczynski Played Amazing Role in Fight for Georgia’s Freedom’
Saakashvili: ‘Kaczynski Played Amazing Role in Fight for Georgia’s Freedom’
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
First of all, RIP to those lost, and condolences to their loved ones, the Polish nation, and the Polish diaspora.
A few thoughts.
I'm gonna bet that this person, regardless of what happened, is going to have a very loooong week ahead of them with a lot of very 'interested' people.
Also, makes a very compelling case for cross loading and never forgetting line of succession when planning VIP travel.
A few thoughts.
I'm gonna bet that this person, regardless of what happened, is going to have a very loooong week ahead of them with a lot of very 'interested' people.
Also, makes a very compelling case for cross loading and never forgetting line of succession when planning VIP travel.
Similar threads
