Plourde blames military for his decision to resign
- Thread starter formerarmybrat23
- Start date
2
2VP_Runt
Guest
I am going to be in trouble opening up old threads but this one concerns me personally and there is a lot of spouting off in defense of personal friends without any real knowledge of what happened. I know what happened as I was on that council at that time.
First, yes, Plourde said "as an officer" and he apologized for it. That should have been the end of the problem but the PAffO at the time ordered Plourde to clear everything he was going to say in public as a town counselor thru the PAffO. Interestingly as this situation was escalating, I went to the Mayor and told her that she bore some responsibility and that this was not good for Plourde, Army or town and that if she explained to the base commander that Plourde was acting on her behalf (something she continued to do in chambers during this time) it would propably all die down. She did not, she did use the distraction to political advantage by splitting up a council that opposed many of the things that she and the administration was doing.
Mr Vance (he is retired now) did not represent a ward with run down military properties in it so there was no effect on him and he had nothing to say on the issue. I will say that he is a very good politician (that comment is not intended to be complementary and is solicitor approved). You know what, I can say that and I can say stuff about the mayor and her policies because they are public people, not gods, and their decisions are open to debate and even libel. Why, because no politicain in their right mind sues their critics as that only opens an issue up to more scrutiny.
For those of you who state that the base comdr has authority in the PMQs you are right and wrong, he has turned that authority over to CFHA and I will let their record speak for itself. At CFB Gagetown all PMQs sit outside of the base as defined by law, thus you have a cross ownership situation, the town owns the sidewalks, playgrounds, roadways and underground infrastructure; DND owns the land which the PMQs sit and the yards around the PMQs. The MPs have no rights outside of the main gate in NB and are not considered police under the NB Police Services Act. They can act as civilians if they see a crime but are considered security guards off base and may not use their weapons unless in hot pursuit of a criminal from on base.
To be honest, no one in this situation kept anything professional and all most every military person touched by this case is no longer serving.
The final question should be is why did nothing happened to the civilian councilors who told the base comdr to clean up his act in the PMQs. Their comments were far harsher and they never made the papers and DND never gave them a response? Only Plourde who the mayor designated as the spokesman for the garbage issue was taken to task.
I still maintain that if the mayor had phoned the base comdr (she had a direct link) and stated that she supported Plourde and that she had appointed him the whole issue would have blown over in a few weeks.
Another issue is the military being effective councilors; this incident has embolden some of the local civilian hacks. I made speech about the drug pushers hanging out at the high school and the next day found myself before the COS for embarrassing the Army, I was in civvies and off base as a town councilor but the principal at the high school knew what my job was and tried to use that to shut me up so she sent a letter to the base comdr claiming I was embarrassing the military.
There was much more going on than even those of us close to the fire could feel the heat of....
First, yes, Plourde said "as an officer" and he apologized for it. That should have been the end of the problem but the PAffO at the time ordered Plourde to clear everything he was going to say in public as a town counselor thru the PAffO. Interestingly as this situation was escalating, I went to the Mayor and told her that she bore some responsibility and that this was not good for Plourde, Army or town and that if she explained to the base commander that Plourde was acting on her behalf (something she continued to do in chambers during this time) it would propably all die down. She did not, she did use the distraction to political advantage by splitting up a council that opposed many of the things that she and the administration was doing.
Mr Vance (he is retired now) did not represent a ward with run down military properties in it so there was no effect on him and he had nothing to say on the issue. I will say that he is a very good politician (that comment is not intended to be complementary and is solicitor approved). You know what, I can say that and I can say stuff about the mayor and her policies because they are public people, not gods, and their decisions are open to debate and even libel. Why, because no politicain in their right mind sues their critics as that only opens an issue up to more scrutiny.
For those of you who state that the base comdr has authority in the PMQs you are right and wrong, he has turned that authority over to CFHA and I will let their record speak for itself. At CFB Gagetown all PMQs sit outside of the base as defined by law, thus you have a cross ownership situation, the town owns the sidewalks, playgrounds, roadways and underground infrastructure; DND owns the land which the PMQs sit and the yards around the PMQs. The MPs have no rights outside of the main gate in NB and are not considered police under the NB Police Services Act. They can act as civilians if they see a crime but are considered security guards off base and may not use their weapons unless in hot pursuit of a criminal from on base.
To be honest, no one in this situation kept anything professional and all most every military person touched by this case is no longer serving.
The final question should be is why did nothing happened to the civilian councilors who told the base comdr to clean up his act in the PMQs. Their comments were far harsher and they never made the papers and DND never gave them a response? Only Plourde who the mayor designated as the spokesman for the garbage issue was taken to task.
I still maintain that if the mayor had phoned the base comdr (she had a direct link) and stated that she supported Plourde and that she had appointed him the whole issue would have blown over in a few weeks.
Another issue is the military being effective councilors; this incident has embolden some of the local civilian hacks. I made speech about the drug pushers hanging out at the high school and the next day found myself before the COS for embarrassing the Army, I was in civvies and off base as a town councilor but the principal at the high school knew what my job was and tried to use that to shut me up so she sent a letter to the base comdr claiming I was embarrassing the military.
There was much more going on than even those of us close to the fire could feel the heat of....
- Reaction score
- 114
- Points
- 680
And lets also be clear, that although Mr Vance didn't represent those mil mbrs living in PMQs ... he did (and still does) represent a whole LOT of mil members living in PMQ West (that is the local slang for what used to be a majority-civ occupied Oromocto West; that's not the case anymore).
Also, to be clear,the PMQ patch here is disgusting - obviously most of these residents are well aware of the fact that they don't "own" their properties and so they just don't care.
I don't recall Mayor faye Tidd turning this little tiff into a political advantage for herself to counter "opposition" (That does seem to be your spin on it though ... apparently you were one in "opposition").
Lastly, also to be quite clear ... sure, some of those members who served on council at that time are out now, but NOT because of this "tiff". At least 3 were medical releases (including Mels) and 1 pulled pin to double dip. The Comd, of course, has retired as well to go on to much bigger things back in his home area ... which was consistent with his plans well before the Plourde story.
Sure, the PMQs needed (and still do) cleaning up, but even as Mayor Tidd's Rep ... Councillor Plourde utilized the "as an Officer of the CF" line with the media. He did so apologize ... later ... after being told it was not on and after being prompted to do so. As a "serving" member of the CF he was then subjected to the PaffO requirement ... not a big deal considering that he was "first and foremost" a serving member of the CF who was required to (and who did not) comply with public statement policy that he was subject to - ergo further statements were to be reviewed to ensure they were "clean" of "as a member of the CF" spin; really, his own fault - he knew better (or should have) as a serving CF member speaking to the media.
I firmly believe that he would not have had the issues he did if he had said "as a representative of Mayor Tidd and a councillor for the town of Oromocto, the following wards need to better clean up their garbage ..."
Just my (non-member of town council biaised) opinion from the sidelines of course.
Also, to be clear,the PMQ patch here is disgusting - obviously most of these residents are well aware of the fact that they don't "own" their properties and so they just don't care.
I don't recall Mayor faye Tidd turning this little tiff into a political advantage for herself to counter "opposition" (That does seem to be your spin on it though ... apparently you were one in "opposition").
Lastly, also to be quite clear ... sure, some of those members who served on council at that time are out now, but NOT because of this "tiff". At least 3 were medical releases (including Mels) and 1 pulled pin to double dip. The Comd, of course, has retired as well to go on to much bigger things back in his home area ... which was consistent with his plans well before the Plourde story.
Sure, the PMQs needed (and still do) cleaning up, but even as Mayor Tidd's Rep ... Councillor Plourde utilized the "as an Officer of the CF" line with the media. He did so apologize ... later ... after being told it was not on and after being prompted to do so. As a "serving" member of the CF he was then subjected to the PaffO requirement ... not a big deal considering that he was "first and foremost" a serving member of the CF who was required to (and who did not) comply with public statement policy that he was subject to - ergo further statements were to be reviewed to ensure they were "clean" of "as a member of the CF" spin; really, his own fault - he knew better (or should have) as a serving CF member speaking to the media.
I firmly believe that he would not have had the issues he did if he had said "as a representative of Mayor Tidd and a councillor for the town of Oromocto, the following wards need to better clean up their garbage ..."
Just my (non-member of town council biaised) opinion from the sidelines of course.
2
2VP_Runt
Guest
As you said you were not on council.
- Reaction score
- 114
- Points
- 680
You are correct; but, as I said ... you were - and your personal biaisness is obvious in your post statements.2VP_Runt said:
The fact that I was not on council still doesn't change the fact that people involved whom have since released didn't get out of the CF because of this ... which is what you seem to spin ... Mel's not the only 'good politician' eh? You have a mighty fine 'spin' going yourself.
2
2VP_Runt
Guest
Actually this is what I said:
"To be honest, no one in this situation kept anything professional and all most every military person touched by this case is no longer serving."
There is no spin there, just fact, your interpretation added the spin. I also stated that Mr Vance had nothing to do with the incident but I did add criticism because others felt that no one was allowed to criticize these politicians due to PerSec. It is necessary to confront any attempt to limit our charter rights at all times and all places. Canada is a country where expressing disagreement with politicans is part of the our freedoms. I choose to disagree, which is based on fact and experience and which is obvious in my statements as well.
But any case as the lone witness to this event in here, I have said my peace and you are welcome to put any more spin you feel you need to on the subject. Thanks to the folks that told that this thread was in here. Cheers!
"To be honest, no one in this situation kept anything professional and all most every military person touched by this case is no longer serving."
There is no spin there, just fact, your interpretation added the spin. I also stated that Mr Vance had nothing to do with the incident but I did add criticism because others felt that no one was allowed to criticize these politicians due to PerSec. It is necessary to confront any attempt to limit our charter rights at all times and all places. Canada is a country where expressing disagreement with politicans is part of the our freedoms. I choose to disagree, which is based on fact and experience and which is obvious in my statements as well.
But any case as the lone witness to this event in here, I have said my peace and you are welcome to put any more spin you feel you need to on the subject. Thanks to the folks that told that this thread was in here. Cheers!
- Reaction score
- 114
- Points
- 680
If you don't believe that your post had any spin ... well OK then.
(Let's see ... the Mayor & "political gain" comments - the Mel and his "this is not a compliment" comments) --- I consider that spin you see because they are "personal" comments (that were not required to make your point in an unbiaised manner) vice those which are not.
And, the last half of what you pointed out below is true ... most of them touched by this are indeed no longer serving, but you leave it dangling ... almost like you are trying to infer that they got out because of this situation; that's NOT a fact and that statement about their releases is completely IRRELEVANT to this topic or to the situation. The only pers who released as a result of this incident was ... Councillor Plourde - who indeed made a very large media show of it - ergo the thread title.
(Let's see ... the Mayor & "political gain" comments - the Mel and his "this is not a compliment" comments) --- I consider that spin you see because they are "personal" comments (that were not required to make your point in an unbiaised manner) vice those which are not.
And, the last half of what you pointed out below is true ... most of them touched by this are indeed no longer serving, but you leave it dangling ... almost like you are trying to infer that they got out because of this situation; that's NOT a fact and that statement about their releases is completely IRRELEVANT to this topic or to the situation. The only pers who released as a result of this incident was ... Councillor Plourde - who indeed made a very large media show of it - ergo the thread title.
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