Need moral support and explanation

[Fracknight]

Hello all, (my first post)

First I am sorry for bad English and spelling as I am French mother tongue. Anyway I will do my best with that summary.

I applied for O RENS and O MAR SS as a second choice and that nearly 3 years ago. Today all is set and I called the RC to have more information about the next step. By the way, in 3 years I never had news from the RC (Montreal). I learned quickly that I'll have to be proactive from my side to get information and correct it as they made a lot of mistakes, but that is another discussion.

The information I had today is that I have to wait until January and I will be put on a merit list. But, they told me that I have like no chance to be taken as an O RENS as there is no job opening and I'll be taken for the O MAR SS.

When I did my interview (a month ago), the officer told me that I'll have to do another selection anyway as the Navy have their own selection process (I wonder then why I had this one?)

My questions are:
1) As I have to do the selection for the Navy, why should I wait another 3 month instead starting immediately?

2) Why they don't pass my file right now instead of waiting January as I have no chance anyway to be on that merit list ?

3) I called the RC this morning and they said they will call me back but I have no news till now. I would like to know who should I contact to clear that matter once for all and try to keep the machine moving?

There is one word I learned from visiting Army web site, books and so about the Forces "LEADERSHIP". But till now, I sow none at this RC. I'm sure you all know that waiting so much put you in a difficult position about planning the professional matter. I'm close to say "enough".

Best regards

 

[rocksteady]

Hello all, (my first post)

First I am sorry for bad English and spelling as I am French mother tongue. Anyway I will do my best with that summary.

I applied for O RENS and O MAR SS as a second choice and that nearly 3 years ago. Today all is set and I called the RC to have more information about the next step. By the way, in 3 years I never had news from the RC (Montreal). I learned quickly that I'll have to be proactive from my side to get information and correct it as they made a lot of mistakes, but that is another discussion.

The information I had today is that I have to wait until January and I will be put on a merit list. But, they told me that I have like no chance to be taken as an O RENS as there is no job opening and I'll be taken for the O MAR SS.

When I did my interview (a month ago), the officer told me that I'll have to do another selection anyway as the Navy have their own selection process (I wonder then why I had this one?)

My questions are:
1) As I have to do the selection for the Navy, why should I wait another 3 month instead starting immediately?

2) Why they don't pass my file right now instead of waiting January as I have no chance anyway to be on that merit list ?

3) I called the RC this morning and they said they will call me back but I have no news till now. I would like to know who should I contact to clear that matter once for all and try to keep the machine moving?

There is one word I learned from visiting Army web site, books and so about the Forces "LEADERSHIP". But till now, I sow none at this RC. I'm sure you all know that waiting so much put you in a difficult position about planning the professional matter. I'm close to say "enough".

Best regards

If you want to join the military get use to poor administration...The military is a very complex dinosaur organization that relies heavily on paper and that being said paper gets lost, misplaced and takes longer to process things...From my experience, there is not alot of accountability with regards to these types of issues so don't expect things to get corrected too quickly...

Best of luck

 

[2 Cdo]

If you want to join the military get use to poor administration...The military is a very complex dinosaur organization that relies heavily on paper and that being said paper gets lost, misplaced and takes longer to process things...From my experience, there is not alot of accountability with regards to these types of issues so don't expect things to get corrected too quickly...

Best of luck

I'm curious as to what you base your statement on. Most of your statement can be summed up as the ramblings of a very junior member of the CF who has had one bad incident, thus leading to a blanket condemnation of the entire system.
I say this because in my 27 years in the military I have had very few times to complain of poor administration. When I have had cause to complain, it was dealt with rather quickly.

As others will probably tell you, STAY IN YOUR LANE.

 

[Adamant]

We all (for the most part) have had to wait for recruiting and courses once you're in.  I only waited a year to get in but was on BOTC with at least one person  who waited 5.

My advice is, be patient, but be proactive.  Call the CFRC but also be prepared for the "We have no new info right now" most times when you do call.

And finally not to sound rude, but if the waiting is going to be that big maybe you should rethink this decision.  As there is going to be a lot of waiting.  Shoot a message into the navy forums and ask about the training times right now.  It might just help you make a more informed decision.

 

[CFR FCS]

Fracknight,
One of the reasons your file has not progressed rapidly is that the DEO process is VERY competitive. Intelligence Officers are selected nationally at a board and there are very few hired each year. MARS have lots of spots but there is an added selection gate you must pass which is the Naval Officer Assessment Board (NOAB) which is held every couple of months. There is one coming up in September but is is likely full already. The next one should be prior to the next session of BMOQ which is traditionally January 09. I say traditionally because the courses are not yet opened for candidates.

It is too bad you have to wait but get in line with everybody else. We have a selection process where we choose the best in Canada for each job and if we have no vacancies to fill like Intelligence Officers then we will not spend time and effort (read scare recruiting resources) to process files that have a very low chance of success.

You could ask CFRC Montreal why you were not merit listed for the NOAB and why they are waiting to merit list you until later in the year. If you want to talk to someone ask to speak to the Officer who interviewed you.

Good luck and be patient, it's worth the wait.

CFR FCS

 

[Fracknight]

Tank you for your answer.

The thing that was not clear in my mind: Is the two options O MAR SS and O RENS will keep running in a "parallel" way, or only one path should be followed?
I mean, if I get the selection for the NOAB, do that mean the O RENS path is over?

I know I look a bit frustrated, but I keep digging!

Thank you very much for your time.

 

[BC Old Guy]

As CFR FCS noted in his reply, there are very limited openings for Int O (O RENS), and these have been filled for this year, so your likelyhood of being considered for Int O is very low.  However, if that remains one of your choices, then you will be considered for any opening that may come up.  I would suggest you work towards your MARS application.  The NAOB is an excellent chance to see what a Navy officer does, so take advantage of the opportunity.

Keep in touch with the CFRC - they have a lot of people moving through, both as applicants and staff. 

 

[Fracknight]

I went to the RC this morning but it is still the same answer, they can't give me any information I just have to wait. Anyway I wrote to the Officer who managed my interview. I keep you in touch as soon as I get an answer.

Regards

 

[kitrad1]

Sounds like you're a bit frustrated. Hope this helps.

Intelligence Officer is a very desireable occupation and, as such, it is currently oversubscribed. When an occupation is oversubscribed (number of applications received exceeds the number required to meet annual target), Recruiting Centres are given direction regarding the conduct of attraction activities (ie yes or no), accepting new applications (again yes, or no) and whether they are to continue processing applications already in the system. As a result your local CF Recruiting Centre will only process an application in accordance with current recruiting priorities.

Additionally, when an applicant puts down more than one occupation, it is not in that order (ie first choice, second choice, etc). they are all first choices. You happened to put down two occupations, one which is oversubscribed and one that isn't. As those are your choices, the one that is available (MARS) is what you most likely will receive (unless something abnormal happens and Int Offr opens up again.)

As for the Navy selection, you are referring to the Naval Officer Assessment Board (NOAB). The Naval Officer Assessment Board consists of two phases: orientation, and assessment.  The orientation phase introduces candidates to the Navy, allowing an informed career decision to preferred military occupation.  The assessment phase permits the Navy, over a one-week period, to assess potential officers...it's also a good chance for the candidate to make a well informed opinion too.

Hope this helps. I'd recommend that you stay in touch with your CFRC and get the answers you need to make that well-informed decision.  Good luck.

 

[Fracknight]

Hello,

Finally I got a call from my recruiting officer to day following my letter where I was asking for some clarifications and timing.
The officer told me that they can not give me any dead line and there is nothing more to do than wait. He told me too that there are some negative notes in my file because I'm asking to much from the RC.  He told me that I am still in evaluation and that could be bad for me.

I have to think seriously about that because I had so many troubles with those people in the RC in Montreal that pissed me off for real. They did such a bad job at the beginning and they make me lost so much time, I wonder if there is not just a kind of revenge behind all that story.

Maybe I am still in evaluation, but the Canadian Forces are under my evaluation as well and its not turning into a positive.

Thank you for your support. The October 5 is gona be 3 year I started to joint the CF. I'll take a final decision then.

Best Regards

 

[Fracknight]

Hello all,

Following some remarks I had. I give just a short insight of what my experience was at the Montreal RC in short!

Oct 2005: Visiting different company in Montreal as I was interested to joint the Reserve
Nov 2005: Starting procedure by Internet but never got any answer so I decided to go directly to the RC on St.-Catherine
- Something was wrong but I started from scratch my candidature as an Officer as I have a Master of Science from Montreal University
- Passed all the exam: Fitness, Medical and the "TAF"
- An Officer told me that everything was perfect and my interview planned, I don't remember exactly when.
- At the interview, the computer system was down and the Officer told me that we can't go through the process and we start discussing few minutes waiting just in case. A t the end he told me :"do you know about the "formulaire d'autorisation de securité"?
- Some people help, some other just try to drown you. I quickly learned that each time to talk to another person in the RC, each time you have another answer. What's a mess in this place!
- I had to fill up that form that took me few days.
- Back to the RC the people there told me that they have to transcribe that into another form and they will call me back when it is ready to sign.
- Don't remember exactly how long it took, anyway I got the call and I cam to the RC office to sign the paper. Here is the big start. I started to read the paper and I was like amazed by what I was reading. The guy who did the job, just few examples, changed the name of my place of birth, he added some country in the visited country, where I never was, like South Africa (and that one is very bad for security reason). The form was full of spelling and grammar mistakes. I had to ask for a red pen and spent a long time to correct everything. I Asked who did the job and the guy could not explain why he did that. So I had to come back and I had to make some more correction and finally the form was sent to the RCMP. The people there told me I'll have to wait for 6 months to 2 years until I get some news, and there is nothing more they can do (that it's wrong, just read the ombudsman report about it. But of course at this RC nobody is there to help you, but just paid to say:" you have to wait").
I spent the 2 years visiting or calling the RC with always the same answer," no news". After a year or less, I don't remember, I changed from the reserve to the regular.
- Beginning 2008, after 2 years waiting I decided to go to the RC. The guy at the office told me: "Yes, 2 years now, we can send an email to the RCMP to get some news…" What Can I say? Why did they do nothing before?
- After 2 weeks with no news I decided again to go to the RC. Then ask the guy on the office for news. He said:" Nothing, you have to wait." I tried to explain that 2 weeks to get an answer from an email is quit long and so, and yes I'm tired of waiting bla bla bla. I had to insist heavily to talk to another person in charge and finally someone came. He checks the computer in front of me and he say:" yes there is an answer. But, the answer is empty and there is nothing wrote in it". So to make a short story, the answer was in an attachment and my security clearance was OK.
- Frankly, how long do you think they would make me waiting if I was not insisting HEAVILY to get it done? Those guy were really cool after that. Do you think they wrote a word on how bad they were while managing my file? Of course not! But they feel free to add negative comment on it when I have to say something about the way they are working…
- As more than a year passed, I had to start the medical again, and it is a huge process because I have to give a lot because of my age. So if you want to do it quickly, than mean in less than 6 to 8 months (you know how it's working in Montreal…) I had to pay to get quickly a meeting with doctors.
- Had my Interview while my Medical was running as I was already accepted two years ago. And I was accepted for both choices. Then I am still waiting as you read my first post.

I just wonder if those people there know what Leadership meant, or it is just an abstract word in their mind?

I come from a Swiss family that landed immigrant in Canada when I was 4. But we stayed few years only. My Brother is born in St-Johns NB and was in the Air-Defense in the regular. My sister born in Switzerland and me in Paris as my father was moving a lot. We are all leaving in Canada and all Canadian.

I think the Canadian Forces are wondering to hire the best and I can offer just what I have:

- Swiss diploma in general mechanic
- Bachelor from Laval University in geomorphology and digital cartography
- Master of Science from Montreal University in geomatic
- Got 3 time the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada with 98% average on my Bachelor, and got the Math./ Physical Sciences Committee NSERC $32500 for my Master. 10 year experience as a Senior in collecting and analyzing information.
- Helicopter pilot (Ab206, AS350 SE3130) all turbine categories.
- 2 stars diving license
- Parachutist brevet
- Swiss master diploma with war rifles and carbine at 300m
- Swiss brevet on horse riding

Feel free to tell me that everything is just normal and there is nothing to be upset with. This is just the short story...

Have a good day and sorry again for my bad English. I keep you in touch!

 

[kincanucks]

Unfortunately, the security screening process takes a very long time and it depends on whether or not CSIS (not the RCMP) can get the information from the country(ies) you have resided in and how many other screenings they have to do.  Also, to compound your experience, CFRC Montreal does not have a very good reputation amongst the applicants that are processed there.  However, in the end they can't do anything for you until that security screening is complete regardless of how great an applicant you are.  Good Luck.

 

[geo]

New bossman at CFRC Montreal.... good fella - with luck the bad rep will be shaken off over time.

The recruiting process is a proactive process & that 3 year wait is something you might have been able to cut down - should you have followed up.  Furthermore, while dropping in is a bit of an inconvenience, you have a better chance of obtaining a full explanation if you are face to face - mano y mano.

Also, wait periods are a fact of life.  The CF will not enroll you if the next trade course does not "mesh" with an upcoming recruit course.  The CF does not want you sitting around not doing anything - waiting for the next course - which could be up to 12 months away.

Good luck

 

[Fracknight]

Hello all,

Just a message to keep you in touch and put an end of this story as you gave me some of your time.

I finally decided to write a report to the Ombudsman with a copy to the boss of the CFRC Montreal. It’s more or less a 10 pages report, that doesn’t go to deeply into each problem I had to face at the CFRC. I was just looking to ring a bell. Maybe that will help for the future.

Till now I got no news from the CFRC, but I don’t expect any. When people are inefficient, usually it is to the end.

I got a phone call from the National Defense, but unhappily, I am not at home anymore as I am traveling abroad. So I’ll call back as soon as I have some time, you know, like at the CFRC, you just have to wait.

If there is any important news about this story I’ll keep you in touch and if not, I wish you all the best.
OL

 

[Marshall]

Bad Notes for asking questions.? I asked several times via email and contacted the CFRC a couple times throughout the last half year.. Im dead?

And as for the one posting saying that the CFRC and CF processing takes forever and easily screws up etc. I found that my application (ROTP - RMC) was quick and easy and was finalized in just over a month. So I can not agree for at least that much.