More new uniforms.

[Black Ops]

Military hopes new camouflage uniforms will make soldiers invisible to heat sensors
Canada's military is spending $500,000 to develop chameleon-like camouflaging. The two-year project aims to create a material that mimics the temperature of any terrain, thus preventing enemies armed with infrared sensors from spotting our soldiers. Philip Twardawa, an engineering physicist with Defence Research and Development Canada, told the Halifax Daily News that heat-seeking sensors turn any temperature anomaly on the battlefield into a potential target. The new camouflage won't actually get cooler in a shady forest -- or warmer in sunshine. "Their uniform isn't going to change in the sense of its thermal properties," Mr. Twardawa said. "It's just that it's going to change the way it processes the infrared signature." By injecting small amounts of temperature-sensitive electrochromic fluids into their uniforms, it's hoped soldiers will all but vanish on the battlefield.

Taken from National Post.

 

[HollywoodHitman]

Very cool. Hopefully I'll be around long enough to see it..........

 

[zerhash]

lol we just got these uniforms. already they are looking at new ones


tsk tsk we can never be satisfied can we!

 

[pbi]

I can't believe how far we've come in the uniform and personal kit depts since I first joined. When I compare the rubbish I wore and carried for most of my career with what's going on now, it's hard to believe it's the same Army. Of course-we're never satisfied. Onwards and upwards! Cheers.

 

[Andyboy]

What is the trade off for shiny kit and new uniforms?

 

[pbi]

If it means the Canadian soldier is better equipped and dressed than he was (and believe me, he is, even if he doesn't yet meet the discerning standards of the US Cavalry Store crowd....) then   I wouldn't be too upset about a trade-off, if there actually even is one. The relevant ,measuring standard is to look at how much we have improved, as opposed to having some pieces of brand new kit that people don't like.Buying goretex gloves or new tacvests for an Army of 20,000 (and we don't even buy that many) is nothing like the cost of developing, fielding and sustaining a major system like LAV or MGS. Cheers.

 

[Andyboy]

US Cavalry? How 1990s! 8)

We have a very limited budget so while equiping soldiers with the best is obviously a good thing, the cost associated with say seven years of research and development for a tac vest means something else has to suffer. Ever wonder what it is?

 

[pbi]

US Cavalry? How 1990s! 8)

We have a very limited budget so while equiping soldiers with the best is obviously a good thing, the cost associated with say seven years of research and development for a tac vest means something else has to suffer. Ever wonder what it is?

So how much research should we do? None? All important pieces of kit have R&D time associated with them, although I agree we could probably cut ours in some cases by looking at what other armies are doing well or poorly. I still don't think that the resources (fnancial or human) that we have dedicated to CTS or other personal re-equipping have in any significant way detracted from major equipment projects, or from anything else.

This is not to say that all the new kit is perfect, or even great (just read the tacvest thread on this site) but the fact is that the Canadian soldier was wearing a mish-mash of unrelated items, some of them dating back thirty years or more (combat coat, combat gloves). Perhaps my view is distorted by a historical perspective: I can recall how bad it was for years so I appreciate the idea of new stuff more. Cheers.

 

[Andyboy]

Understood, I've been around for a bit and understand where we are compared to where we were even 10 years ago in terms of personal kit.

Do our soldiers perform better now than they did 10 years ago before CTS was pumping out the reams of new stuff they are now? Could the money be better spent on something else? Are we buying cable and smokes while on welfare? I think we are. This is all (generally) good kit or at least generally better than it was in a lot of cases, however new doesn't mean better. I question the requirements, is it need based or want based? Are we sacrificing something more worthwhile in order to pay for the seven years of R&D it took to come up with the Tacvest?

I have been fairly intimately involved in the realm of kit deisgn for a few years so I'm not just talking out of my ass (on this topic anyway).

 

[Matt_Fisher]

On the subject of the IR camouflaging property applied to the uniforms, this seems pretty interesting.  I imagine that if they're successful in doing this, the technology could be applied to vehicles, major equipment, etc.

However, the $500,000 R&D fund allotted seems kinda small for the goal they hope to achieve.  I'd be interested to see what the the US, UK, and other 'leading edge' military R&D programs are doing in this area.  My bet is that they're probably spending alot more than $500k and they're probably alot further ahead than DRDC is.

 

[Heatwave]

Cha-ching!  Sounds expensive! 

Really, things have come a long way.  I remember going to MIR and Clothing Stores with feet that were ripped apart, and bad knees, and being told, "it's not the footwear, you're just wearing them wrong."  Nowadays, they give your orthodics, size your feet, and send you out to a civilian contracted store to find something (much better than the Mark III's) that will help you do the job.  I'm not saying that this is the answer for everyone, but it sure is a step in the right direction (no pun intended ;D)

Another reality is, with everything that is tested/used in the military, it will eventually hit the streets in civilian pattern...usually with some added improvements.  This then gives us the option of purchasing a good item for everyday household use, or some darn fine Gucci kit for the field.  So, one way or the other, we should be able to benefit from everything that is being worked on, including the IR camoflauge.  I know that the paint-ball scene has come a long way and I'm sure some would be willing to pay for some of this stuff, when it becomes available for civilian use (unfortunately, not speaking from experience, just from watching the Paint-ball competitions on TSN - pretty advanced!)

 

[Andyboy]

There is a leak in the roof and we're spending time and money designing and buying new curtains when our neighbors and friends are in the curtain business. An overly simplistic analogy no doubt but there it is.

$500 000 is chump change. Matt is correct, other better funded countries are already on this. Why must we always reinvent the wheel just so we can feel warm and fuzzy about it being invented here?

All that being said I doubt the article is factually correct to begin with, they seldom are.

 

[Armymedic]

Because our defence reseach establishment leads the world in innovation. WE ARE THE LEADERS! Every other country is in the dust.

Also just because they are researching this, doesn't mean we are getting new uniforms....they have been studying this problem of eliminating the advantage of thermal detection for 5-8 yrs.

As well as once establishing a system to do that, before they can make in into a general issue clothing item they have to develop it into a material that can be washed and dry ed in the standard way. That research could take another 5-10 yrs as well.

 

[zerhash]

sure we are the leaders... but then why are we doing so poorly in the public eye as being ill equipt for battle?

 

[Da_man]

This is great technology, but i just dont see the point in today's army.  People we and will fight in the near furture dont have thermal dection devices.

 

[zerhash]

arent the americans developing on the OICW a scope with thermal range finder?

 

[Fusaki]

arent the americans developing on the OICW a scope with thermal range finder?

No... I'm sure a search will give you more then enough info on this.

 

[Da_man]

arent the americans developing on the OICW a scope with thermal range finder?

OICW was scratched years ago

 

[zerhash]

thats a shame! such promising technology!

what happend to it? didnt they have most of it done?

it was probably the expensive grenade rounds

 

[Matt_Fisher]

It was becoming a white elephant in that they couldn't justify the costs involved and they were still along way off from making it a manageable size and weight.

The 5.56mm has been morphed into the HK XM-8.

I think that the 20mm grenade launcher is dead, although the thermal sight and laser range finder are being incorporated into a 25mm semi-automatic grenade launching version of the XM-8 (sans 5.56 rifle) for ammunition commonality with the OCSW.