W
Waldo
Guest
I acquired a mess dress before I retired and I am trying to find the regulation as to where and what insignia is required.
Any help would be appreciated
Any help would be appreciated
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The exact details will depend on the trade, and the best place to start is the applicable Corps/Unit kit shop for accoutrements and details for wear.
Y
Yes Man
Guest
Kind of off topic: but does anyone have a picture of someone in mess dress? I would like to see what it looks like.
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
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A pair of cloth collar dogs. Miniatures of medals, if any. Regimental/branch studs and cuff links for the shirt are optional.
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Here‘s a picture of mess kit.
http://www.windsorregt.ca/srnco.html
http://www.windsorregt.ca/srnco.html
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I've read in the CF Dress Instructions that a member can have his service dress or ceremonial dress made by a civilian tailor (as opposed to the CF supply system) if that tailor is using 'official' CF tailoring patterns.
Now, I must mention that I am very interested in tailoring and men's suits and all of those clothing particulars you used to find in Esquire magazine. So I expect a good fit when it comes to my reefer jacket (that's the navy's double-breasted service dress coat) and matching trousers. Needless to say I was too rushed during IAP to bother taking my reefer jacket back to the tailor to get the last wrinkles in the back to dissapear.
So I went to my base tailor today--not to alter my service dress, which is still in CMTT--and I asked about the CF patterns that one is supposed to get through the supply system in order to give to one's (civy) tailor. And the base tailor had no idea about what I was talking. Fair enough, I'll bet most people don't have 'their own' tailor, after all this isn't the 1930s. So I asked the tailor if she would make a custom service dress for me (didn't think of asking for mess dress, by the way) and she said something like, 'Why would I make a uniform from scratch when I have ones from stock?'
At this point, I reaffirmed my position to go to my own tailor who can appreciate the confort and look of a custom made suit/uniform. After all, if one is expected to have a mirror shine on their parade boots, or their caps completely level on their head, then why are members not encouraged to have thier uniforms custom made to improve their look while in public and on parade? Admittedly, not everyone can afford a custom made suit, but I felt that the base tailor was jacking me up for wanting a good-looking uniform.
This brings up a few questions:
Where can I get these CF patterns? Or is it enough to show a competent tailor your current stock uniform and have him pattern his after it?
Also, as per fabrics: I know the CF tends to favour polyester mixes, but I, as a sort of a cloth afficcionado, favour the pure wool suits and pure cotton shirts. Of course, in cases like the white tunic of the navy, the pure cotton drill will wrinkle more easily than polyester twill, but are the materials strictly regulated--will anyone notice if I have a pure wool reefer jacket rather than a wool/poly one?
Thanks if anyone can answer me...hopefully someone else here shares my love of fine clothing! ;D
Now, I must mention that I am very interested in tailoring and men's suits and all of those clothing particulars you used to find in Esquire magazine. So I expect a good fit when it comes to my reefer jacket (that's the navy's double-breasted service dress coat) and matching trousers. Needless to say I was too rushed during IAP to bother taking my reefer jacket back to the tailor to get the last wrinkles in the back to dissapear.
So I went to my base tailor today--not to alter my service dress, which is still in CMTT--and I asked about the CF patterns that one is supposed to get through the supply system in order to give to one's (civy) tailor. And the base tailor had no idea about what I was talking. Fair enough, I'll bet most people don't have 'their own' tailor, after all this isn't the 1930s. So I asked the tailor if she would make a custom service dress for me (didn't think of asking for mess dress, by the way) and she said something like, 'Why would I make a uniform from scratch when I have ones from stock?'
At this point, I reaffirmed my position to go to my own tailor who can appreciate the confort and look of a custom made suit/uniform. After all, if one is expected to have a mirror shine on their parade boots, or their caps completely level on their head, then why are members not encouraged to have thier uniforms custom made to improve their look while in public and on parade? Admittedly, not everyone can afford a custom made suit, but I felt that the base tailor was jacking me up for wanting a good-looking uniform.
This brings up a few questions:
Where can I get these CF patterns? Or is it enough to show a competent tailor your current stock uniform and have him pattern his after it?
Also, as per fabrics: I know the CF tends to favour polyester mixes, but I, as a sort of a cloth afficcionado, favour the pure wool suits and pure cotton shirts. Of course, in cases like the white tunic of the navy, the pure cotton drill will wrinkle more easily than polyester twill, but are the materials strictly regulated--will anyone notice if I have a pure wool reefer jacket rather than a wool/poly one?
Thanks if anyone can answer me...hopefully someone else here shares my love of fine clothing! ;D
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Mess kit is always done "off base". I have never heard of getting a custom made DEU. For the amount you actually wear it, it's a colossal waste of money. Just take your issued DEU to your tailor and have them alter it to fit you. Guys do it all the time with used mess kits bought off a retiring member and you can't tell the difference. By the way, DEUs are 65% wool and 35% polyester as read off my DEU tag.
Invest in some mutual funds if the money is burning a hole in your pocket.
Cheers
Invest in some mutual funds if the money is burning a hole in your pocket.
Cheers
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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When it comes to DEUs I think you will find that you will be left with no choice but to take the "issue" uniform. I know General grade officers of old used to get custom tailoring done, but even they now are likely to use the issue uniforms.
Mess Kit is a whole different story and there are numerous tailors around the country that have the patterns and various choices or grades of fabric that one may want to choose from.
You may have better luck, waiting to get to your first posting and asking around there as to what their policies are and if there are any tailors that they deal with. The cost may be considerably less if a tailor were to be brought in to do measurements on several people, as opposed to one. That happened years ago when I was at the Armour School in Gagetown and they flew in a tailor from Vancouver to take measurements. There was even a person there that was selling Wellingtons at half price. It was "One Stop Shopping" and even with the discount of a large order like that, they were able to pay a tailor to fly from one end of the country to the other.
Just a thought.....
GW
Mess Kit is a whole different story and there are numerous tailors around the country that have the patterns and various choices or grades of fabric that one may want to choose from.
You may have better luck, waiting to get to your first posting and asking around there as to what their policies are and if there are any tailors that they deal with. The cost may be considerably less if a tailor were to be brought in to do measurements on several people, as opposed to one. That happened years ago when I was at the Armour School in Gagetown and they flew in a tailor from Vancouver to take measurements. There was even a person there that was selling Wellingtons at half price. It was "One Stop Shopping" and even with the discount of a large order like that, they were able to pay a tailor to fly from one end of the country to the other.
Just a thought.....
GW
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I think you should follow George Wallace's advice here. Wait until you get posted, then sort it out.
To answer your question a bit more broadly, the Canadian military long ago abandoned the idea of officers having a different quality uniform than the troops. While UK officers and (I believe) US officers still buy their service dress, we are much more egalitarian (as is our country in general) And, as Inch pointed out, the DEU is worn so rarely (at least in the Army, anyway...) that spending money to have a tailor build a set of DEU, at today's rates, is a terribly expensive way to go.
If you are Navy, you should find good military tailors in Victoria, Vancouver and Halifax without too much difficulty. Cheers.
To answer your question a bit more broadly, the Canadian military long ago abandoned the idea of officers having a different quality uniform than the troops. While UK officers and (I believe) US officers still buy their service dress, we are much more egalitarian (as is our country in general) And, as Inch pointed out, the DEU is worn so rarely (at least in the Army, anyway...) that spending money to have a tailor build a set of DEU, at today's rates, is a terribly expensive way to go.
If you are Navy, you should find good military tailors in Victoria, Vancouver and Halifax without too much difficulty. Cheers.
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Thanks for the replies. Yeah, I never thought about the fact that service dress is rarely worn, so I guess I'll just have my reefer jacket altered.
But just to confirm: I can get mess dress made at any tailor (who knows what it looks like) and it'll conform to dress instructions? I just don't want to pay hundreds of dollars for some wonderfully-fitting garment of beautiful cloth and then have a cox'n or WCWO tell me that I cannot wear it.
But just to confirm: I can get mess dress made at any tailor (who knows what it looks like) and it'll conform to dress instructions? I just don't want to pay hundreds of dollars for some wonderfully-fitting garment of beautiful cloth and then have a cox'n or WCWO tell me that I cannot wear it.
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For the mess kit, just ask at your unit. There's usually a tailor near most major military bases that does mess kits. If they know how to make a mess kit, I don't think you'll find too much variation. Just ask around when you get to your unit, I think you've got a year after your commission to get the mess kit, though I'm not sure how solid that time frame is, and save your money, Navy mess kits run up around $1000, it's the most expensive of the 3 elements.
Cheers
Cheers
Cheers- Reaction score
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Ahh, so mess dress is intended to be slightly different? I mean, of course not officially, but traditionally?
In which case I am happy. ;D
In which case I am happy. ;D
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
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pbi said:
Wasn't that long ago, really, - early 1970s for reserve units, possibly late 60s for the regs who were adopting the CF uniform. Certainly within the lifetimes of most people posting here.
The regulations permitted different materials for officers' service dress, so if one wanted pure wool, gabardine, barathea, whipcord, or whatever, it was officially sanctioned. Unification and CF Green changed all that for good.
H
hiv
Guest
Just to clarify, the dress regs do indeed say you can get any non-operational uniform custom made as long as it adheres to published CF guidelines. Unfortunately, I have no idea where you'll be able to find these.
Matt_Fisher
Army.ca Veteran
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If you really want a custom tailored uniform and are prepared to pay the costs associated with such, you may want to have a look on the web for naval tailors in the UK who do custom made uniforms for officer's in the Royal Navy. Since the Royal Navy officer's uniform is pretty much the same as the CF Naval uniform (black double breasted jacket and trousers) that NCMs and officer's wear, you'd probably to have your uniform made from the RN Officer's pattern in a suitable material.
For maker's of custom uniforms I was able to find these two in a quick yahoo search:
G.D Goldings (Tailors) Ltd.
http://www.custom-tailor.co.uk/
Garry Beverly Tailoring
http://www.gbeverleytailors.co.uk/default.asp
Cheers!
Matt
For maker's of custom uniforms I was able to find these two in a quick yahoo search:
G.D Goldings (Tailors) Ltd.
http://www.custom-tailor.co.uk/
Garry Beverly Tailoring
http://www.gbeverleytailors.co.uk/default.asp
Cheers!
Matt
MedCorps
Sr. Member
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When the Army got rid of tans as the summer dress and had us wear winter weight dark green DEU pants I had two sets of summer DEU weight dark green DEU pants made in the correct material / pattern. I also had my dark green DEU jacket custom made.
The person that did it was Mario "The Master Tailor" in Ottawa on Gladstone Street. Great guy, excellent work, has all of the CF patterns and CF fabrics (in fact he drafted some of the CF patterns for the CF on contract, and is the tailor for the Governor General). Cannot say enough good things about this guy.
Was it worth it? Well when I was posted in Ottawa I wore the DEU pants (as part of 3B/C) every bloody day. Yep it was worth it. When I am out on parade in the summer heat and people are sweating their balls off... I am just that much cooler. The jacket fits great also. He also did my Mess Kit and White Mess Kit Jacket. Again, well made.
Hope that helps and good luck.
Cheers,
MC
The person that did it was Mario "The Master Tailor" in Ottawa on Gladstone Street. Great guy, excellent work, has all of the CF patterns and CF fabrics (in fact he drafted some of the CF patterns for the CF on contract, and is the tailor for the Governor General). Cannot say enough good things about this guy.
Was it worth it? Well when I was posted in Ottawa I wore the DEU pants (as part of 3B/C) every bloody day. Yep it was worth it. When I am out on parade in the summer heat and people are sweating their balls off... I am just that much cooler. The jacket fits great also. He also did my Mess Kit and White Mess Kit Jacket. Again, well made.
Hope that helps and good luck.
Cheers,
MC
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Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if their is a difference between the men's and the women's mess dress?
Yes there is. However,women may wear the trousers/overalls, men's shirt and bow tie etc. Usually each regiment has a standard for female mess dress, i.e. the style of the dress and jacket. Try to find the regulation for your unit, if possible.
