Marine Systems Engineering Officer Civilian Opportunities

[legionnaire007]

Hello good people,

would anyone be willing to comment on the opportunities in the civilian sector for an ex. Marine Systems Engineering Officer? Would they be able to obtain engineering/safety officer positions on non-military vessels?

Thank you for your time.

 

[stoker dave]

I am an ex-MSEO.

I can't comment on equivalency between the various marine certifications.

However, you may find opportunities in areas such as power generation, construction projects that involve lots of mechanical work, manufacturing, mining and similar fields.

In which field(s) and geographic area(s) do you wish to work?

 

[legionnaire007]

Thank you, sir. I was more interested in cruise or merchant vessel engineer officer positions, but I may just retire with the CAF (provided I get in in the first place). It's good to have options.

Do you know about the education requirements, would a non-engineering MSc degree satisfy the requirements for this position?

 

[stoker dave]

I may just retire with the CAF (provided I get in in the first place). It's good to have options.

Just to be clear, you haven't yet applied but are looking at retirement options? I admire you for taking a very, very long view.

Given the very long time scales involved, it would be extremely difficult to say if one's possible future qualifications may or may not meet some very future requirements. I am not aware of any current correlation between, say, MSEO qualifications and industry marine engineering qualifications. But certainly it will get you a long way towards the more senior qualifications. However, as I stated above, I don't know as I am well removed from that area of expertise and future changes are always possible.

I would say that people I know who are ex-MSEO have taken up careers as diverse as law, finance, medicine, engineering, teaching and academia. Your experience as an MSEO will open lots of doors to you and, over the span of decades, your interests may change as may workplace opportunities.

I don't understand your question " would a non-engineering MSc degree satisfy the requirements for this position?". To which position are you referring?

 

[legionnaire007]

I like to have a complete picture and consider all possible outcomes- including retirement with CAF as well as potential alternative career opportunities if things don't work out.

When it comes to the non-engineering degree, I was referring to the actual MSEO position.

Thank you once again for all the information and feedback

 

[Blackadder1916]

Hello good people,

would anyone be willing to comment on the opportunities in the civilian sector for an ex. Marine Systems Engineering Officer? Would they be able to obtain engineering/safety officer positions on non-military vessels?

Thank you for your time.

While service in the Navy may provide (some?) of the training and experience needed to obtain employment in the civilian maritime industry post military service, it is Transport Canada that determines certification of those skills and such certification would be necessary to be considered for any seagoing position.

Questions Frequently Asked Regarding: Certification and Training

This document is the FAQ page of Certification and Training.

tc.canada.ca

Question 6: I have marine experience with the Navy/DND and would like to work on Canadian vessels, what do I need to do?
Answer:
To transfer your qualifications from Canadian Navy to work on Canadian Vessels, please refer to the following sections of Transport Canada publication listed below;
The Examination and Certification of Seafarers (TP 2293)
Our website link is http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/tp-tp2293-menu-2254.htm
Please note - Section 2.5- Assessment process and section 2.8- Engineering Certificates with special reference to paragraph 3 which relates to service in Canadian Armed Forces Table VI- refers to types of Certificates and credits for candidates from Canadian Armed Forces.
Please contact or visit any one of the TCMS office near you, and present yourself with all your documentation, for assessment of your qualifications and your eligibility for Direct examinations.
Once your case is cleared for a Direct Examination, we will issue you with a letter specifying at which level you are accepted, courses to complete and examinations to pass.
On successful completion of training courses and examinations, an equivalent Canadian Certificate of Competency ( CoC ) is issued. This Certificate is a pre-requisite for working on any type of Canadian ships, and as explained above, pre-requisites for getting the certificate are the successful completion of above courses and the passing of examinations mentioned in Table III of Chapter 2, TP 2293 .

The Examination and Certification of Seafarers (TP 2293)

Information archivée dans le Web | Information Archived on the Web

publications.gc.ca

Certification by Transport Canada of military training and experience (or the perceived difficulty in getting such certification) has been discussed on these means previously.

Transport Canada certification of Naval skills

For whatever reason, Transport Canada wont recognize the superior training that the military gives their members for any civilian BWK qualifications. My experience with these retards (I mean Transport Canada) has shown that these government rejects do not give a crap about the training that the...

army.ca

 

[Grimey]

My experience is fairly dated, but I believe BSc/MSc degrees would be considered against an MSEO application. Interweb or your local CFRC should be able to confirm.

My own personal opinion on MSEO's and engineering degrees: They certainly convey base knowledge, but as an MSEO you're likely to spend a max of 4 years on a ship (1 yr trainee/1 yr Assistant Head of Department/ 2 yr Head of Department (as the ship's MSEO). The rest of a career is spent driving a desk in the fleet schools, in project management in various locales, or other (likely non-engineering) postings with duties that are far removed from being an MSEO. I've always felt MSEOs are better served in the long run by having an MBA with a PM specialty.

It's the lack of time spent on ships that leads to a bit of a blind spot between recognition of a future MSEO HOD certificate and what civilian marine engineering equivalents at sea require.

Personally, I'm aware of only one former MSEO that went into a direct civilian equivalency....and that was the Coast Guard. Remainder have gone to engineering firms directly linked with the RCN, such SNC (cough) Lavalin, Babcock or Fleet-Way, a few to BC Ferries and the rest to things as diverse as Facility/City engineering managers or directors. I'm the latter in a Health Care Facility.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I don't believe that MSEO translates to commercial seafaring without a lot of additional training to get the actual tickets, and that would be more of a post martech route, but honestly not sure I could recommend joining right now as a martech for a variety of reasons.

You get a bit of a jack of all trades training and experience, and I think translates well into a lot of different engineering/project management/technical manager type jobs, but also gives some basic skill sets that you can fairly easily turn into anything you want.

I do know people that have also shifted into other aspects of the marine industry, as things like managing work in shipyards, maintenance supervisors on cruise ships and general engineering project crises management would be like a normal day. And there are opportunities to get into some specialty areas, like nav arch, fire/damage control etc as well as take MBAs, System Engineering etc etc on the CAF dime (with a payback period). But when your experience includes emergencies being things like actual fires, I think it's a bit easier to stay calm under normal stress.

From talking to friends from uni, who all went down a crazy variety of paths, I think I've definitely had some unique experiences I wouldn't have seen anywhere else, although I do regret never really doing that core jr. engineer design type work. Although some of them have gone on to become doctors (literal brain surgeon), lawyers etc as well as working in engineering, so I think generally that you can do all kinds of totally different career paths regardless of what your education may indicate (one guy actually had a side gig as a male model and would occasionally see him on a cover of a harlequin novel in the grocery store)

 

[legionnaire007]

Wow I am humbled by the vast amount of information you've all provided, thank you everyone for your time and input.

In comparison with the Naval Warfare Officer, the Marine Systems Engineering Officer appears to provide more potential opportunities - would you be abe to comment on that/compare the two?

Once again, I truly appreciate everyone's feedback.

 

[Navy_Pete]

More important than what you want to do in the next job, is what do you want to do now? Life is short, don't grind in the suck for retirement.

I have enjoyed my career as an EO so far overall, and there are some cool opportunities, but every few weeks I ask myself if I still want to do this, and go from there. Now that I'm getting close to the pension, it's hard to walk away because half your salary as an annuity is pretty awesome for opening options, but I could have walked away a decade ago, and still come out of it with some great training, interesting experiences, and some valuable stuff to put on a resume for a next job.

The one thing I will say for the CAF is it's one of the better paying jobs when you graduate with zero actual experience, so even if you do your initial contract and leave, it's not bad.

I could be wrong, but think MSEO was also on the list of occupations that has signing bonuses (which I think is still paid out in two phases as you hit early training milestones), along with a number of other occupations, and not going to lie, that was great to get almost 20 years ago. Wiped out my student debt, gave me some money towards a downpayment, so helped financially when I was younger. It wouldn't go as far now, but it's still pretty decent, given that you basically finish your payback period for that during your initial training phase, when you are still trying to decide if you like it or not.

 

[Grimey]

Wow I am humbled by the vast amount of information you've all provided, thank you everyone for your time and input.

In comparison with the Naval Warfare Officer, the Marine Systems Engineering Officer appears to provide more potential opportunities - would you be abe to comment on that/compare the two?

Once again, I truly appreciate everyone's feedback.

MSEO: Nice, warm, nurturing mentored environment that is team-focused for the good of the whole. Better than the sum of its parts.

NWO: Night of the Long Knives, continuously

 

[legionnaire007]

More important than what you want to do in the next job, is what do you want to do now? Life is short, don't grind in the suck for retirement.

I have enjoyed my career as an EO so far overall, and there are some cool opportunities, but every few weeks I ask myself if I still want to do this, and go from there. Now that I'm getting close to the pension, it's hard to walk away because half your salary as an annuity is pretty awesome for opening options, but I could have walked away a decade ago, and still come out of it with some great training, interesting experiences, and some valuable stuff to put on a resume for a next job.

The one thing I will say for the CAF is it's one of the better paying jobs when you graduate with zero actual experience, so even if you do your initial contract and leave, it's not bad.

I could be wrong, but think MSEO was also on the list of occupations that has signing bonuses (which I think is still paid out in two phases as you hit early training milestones), along with a number of other occupations, and not going to lie, that was great to get almost 20 years ago. Wiped out my student debt, gave me some money towards a downpayment, so helped financially when I was younger. It wouldn't go as far now, but it's still pretty decent, given that you basically finish your payback period for that during your initial training phase, when you are still trying to decide if you like it or not.

That's a great way of thinking, I believe I am slowly changing my mindset toward living in the moment but it's good to know that one's profession/job can provide some safety in older days. The signing bonus sure doesn't hurt the morale

I always loved sailing and spent some time working on ships already so I definitely wouldn't mind doing that now. Long term, I'd be pleased with the opportunity to work in a project-management role within the CAF or even train toward becoming a medical officer (MD).

How much time do you think one actually has to get off the boat in whatever country the ship docks?

MSEO: Nice, warm, nurturing mentored environment that is team-focused for the good of the whole. Better than the sum of its parts.

NWO: Night of the Long Knives, continuously

Based on this information, MSEO all the way for me. It's difficult to thrive in a toxic environment, I prefer the team-focus and working for the greater good. Thank you kindly!

 

[Grimey]

That's a great way of thinking, I believe I am slowly changing my mindset toward living in the moment but it's good to know that one's profession/job can provide some safety in older days. The signing bonus sure doesn't hurt the morale

I always loved sailing and spent some time working on ships already so I definitely wouldn't mind doing that now. Long term, I'd be pleased with the opportunity to work in a project-management role within the CAF or even train toward becoming a medical officer (MD).

How much time do you think one actually has to get off the boat in whatever country the ship docks?



Based on this information, MSEO all the way for me. It's difficult to thrive in a toxic environment, I prefer the team-focus and working for the greater good. Thank you kindly!

I was only half joking. Because of my Mar Eng career path started as a junior technician on minesweepers a life time ago, I saw how junior NWOs (MARs at the time) were treated by their immediate supervisors and training system as a whole. Sure, it weeded out the weak and dense, but it wasn’t pretty. Years later on destroyers, nothing had changed. You can do a search of FSTOs posts. Most would echo my comments above.

 

[Navy_Pete]

That's a great way of thinking, I believe I am slowly changing my mindset toward living in the moment but it's good to know that one's profession/job can provide some safety in older days. The signing bonus sure doesn't hurt the morale

I always loved sailing and spent some time working on ships already so I definitely wouldn't mind doing that now. Long term, I'd be pleased with the opportunity to work in a project-management role within the CAF or even train toward becoming a medical officer (MD).

How much time do you think one actually has to get off the boat in whatever country the ship docks?



Based on this information, MSEO all the way for me. It's difficult to thrive in a toxic environment, I prefer the team-focus and working for the greater good. Thank you kindly!

I don't know if it's possible to find something you always enjoy, but I don't think it's necessary to do something you don't like for 25 years because you think you might enjoy something on the second career. I think every job will have stuff you don't like and things you do like, it's just trying to find something where you enjoy it more than you don't, and you can live with the short term stuff you don't enjoy.

For port visits, all really depends, but usually there is a bunch of work to get done when you first get in, and then depends if you are on duty watch. Generally though for a normal port visit (get in Friday, leave Monday) you try to make sure everyone gets a least one day a chance to go ashore. And sometimes you get longer port visits so you might get two or three days (maybe not consecutive). But sometimes things are broken and you might just get a half day or whatever, so it all depends.

 

[legionnaire007]

Absolutely, there is no perfection in this world so might as well try different things

Thank you once again for all the input. This really seems like a decent trade choice for me...