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MacKay vs O'Connor as MND (merged)

MarkOttawa

Army.ca Fixture
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Fallen Comrade
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Firing O'Connor doesn't appear in the script (Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act.)
Globe and Mail, By JOHN IBBITSON, March 13
http://www.rbcinvest.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/LAC/20070313/IBBITSON13/Columnists/columnists/columnistsNational/4/4/4/

Gordon O'Connor is not going to be fired. It doesn't fit the narrative.

When the House of Commons resumes next week, Canada's Minister of Defence will have to offer an abject apology for misleading it.

Mr. O'Connor repeatedly told the House of Commons that prisoners captured by Canadian Forces and handed over to the Afghan government were not being mistreated, because the International Committee of the Red Cross would tell him if they were.

No, we wouldn't, the ICRC declared last week; that's not our job. So Mr. O'Connor misled the House, which is potentially a firing offence.

But unless the Defence Minister gets himself into even more trouble than he is already in -- and he does seem to be doing everything he can during his Afghanistan trip to make a bad situation worse -- he will almost certainly survive, for several reasons.

First, Mr. O'Connor didn't mislead the House as much as it appears he did. The Red Cross does, in fact, informally contact the Canadian government with information about prisoners transferred into Afghan custody. It's a back-channel thing, and Mr. O'Connor knew about it, which partly contributed to his misstatements.

Second, he's not doing all that bad a job. As a former general, Mr. O'Connor is handling the complex challenges of equipping the troops in Afghanistan while beefing up the Canadian military with considerable skill. Imagine the political cost if a more inept minister mishandled either of those formidable tasks. A genuine defence crisis -- one involving troops being killed because they didn't have the equipment they needed, or billions of dollars being wasted thanks to a flawed procurement process -- could bring down the government.

Third, firing Mr. O'Connor would hand an important narrative over to the opposition. The Conservatives have invested serious political capital in creating a Canada-in-the-world story. It's the story of Canada's commitment to the people of Afghanistan, of the restoration of a disgracefully underfinanced and underequipped military, of the renaissance of Canada's international voice.

Dismissing the Defence Minister would undermine that narrative, giving credence to the opposition claims of skewed priorities (we should get out of Afghanistan), botched purchases (we bought the wrong planes) and personality clashes (allegedly between Mr. O'Connor and Chief of the Defence Staff Rick Hillier).

The Afghanistan mission, rather than being about delivering safety and security to a beleaguered people, while confronting the forces of terrorism and religious fundamentalism, would become a tale of Somalia-like accusations of mistreatment of prisoners.

Mr. Harper has no intention of letting the other side of the House tell the story that way. So Mr. O'Connor stays.

At least for now.

Gordon O'Connor's problem is that he doesn't realize how bad a politician he is. Now, lots of people enter political life lacking experience, and must learn, painfully, on the job. But he doesn't learn, doesn't want to learn, and has a tendency to fire people who tell him he needs to learn.

He prepares badly for Question Period, and gets flustered and irritable during it. His answers to questions from reporters can be long-winded and complex, which only invites further contradictions. And he improvises, as he did yesterday, telling reporters he planned to meet with the head of the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission while in Kandahar, not realizing that the individual was out of town.

He's a communication director's worst nightmare.

In the next cabinet shuffle, Mr. Harper may decide that Mr. O'Connor, having done most of the heavy lifting, should step aside, to be replaced by someone who could do a better job selling the Conservatives' accomplishments on the file. If Mr. O'Connor screws up again, the Prime Minister might not wait until a shuffle.

But for now, Mr. O'Connor will continue to share with International Trade Minister David Emerson the reputation for being administratively competent, but politically inept.

Shorter answers, Mr. O'Connor. And it wouldn't hurt to smile.

Mark
Ottawa
 
You are right, he can't NOT support him until he can change him without controversy....who was the member from Edmonton everyone thought should have been the defense minister? Is he up to it? Is he more adept politically, or is he focused like Hillier?
 
GAP: Lt.-Col. (ret'd) Laurie Hawn, former fighter pilot (defeated Landslide Annie McLellan).
http://www.lauriehawnmp.ca/
http://www.conservative.ca/?tpid=1979&section_copy_id=7862&section_id=1051&linkTo=true&districtId=1737

Ran his own blog, Strong and Free, until the election was called.
http://strongandfree.blogspot.com/

Mark
Ottawa
 
O'Connor should stay, poll majority says
Canadians give defence minister benefit of doubt in alleged mistreatment of detainees: pollster
Jack Aubry, The Ottawa Citizen Published: Monday, May 07, 2007
Article Link

The majority of Canadians believe Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor should hang on to his cabinet post despite the furore over the treatment of detainees in Afghanistan, partly because the minister should not be expected to know everything that happens to prisoners after they are handed over to Afghan officials.

A new Ipsos Reid poll, conducted exclusively for CanWest News Service and Global National, found 53 per cent of Canadians believe it is unfair for opposition parties to call for Mr. O'Connor to step down as they have been doing almost every day recently in the House of Commons. On the other hand, 36 per cent of Canadians believe Mr. O'Connor has been negligent and should have been monitoring what was happening to the detainees after they were turned over to Afghan officials.

The Harper government has been under steady siege in the Commons since allegations surfaced in late April that as many as 30 prisoners transferred by Canadians may have been abused.
More on link

 
Rather than start another new thread ....

I don't know if this is just ”a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing” or if it is the first stirrings of an organized revolt against Minister O'Connor for his inept handing of questions in Parliament or, quite likely, it is just part of the ongoing journalistic attack on O'Connor.  In any event, here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act is a strange story from today's Globe and Mail:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070511.OCONNOR11/TPStory/TPNational/Politics/
POLITICS: DEFENCE MINISTER UNDER FIRE

O'Connor organizer quits over 'corruption from the bottom'

JENNIFER DITCHBURN
Canadian Press

May 11, 2007

OTTAWA -- A key organizer for embattled Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor has quit his post at the local Conservative riding association over what he calls "corruption from the bottom."

J.P. Dorion has been one of Mr. O'Connor's political organizers in the riding of Carleton-Mississippi Mills near Ottawa, and until the end of last year was the president of the local riding association. He and two other members of the riding executive announced last week they were quitting their posts on the board, citing complaints of misuse of government property.

Mr. Dorion says he watched one of Mr. O' Connor's constituency employees, Glenn Trebble, using office computers to do party taxes and fulfill Elections Canada reporting requirements earlier this year.

The constituency office computers are property of the federal government, while the books constituted Conservative Party business.

Mr. Dorion raised red flags with riding president Steve Liakos, but ultimately was unhappy with the response. The riding association wrote a cheque to the government for $9 to defray the costs of printing the paperwork.

"This is corruption from the bottom," Mr. Dorion said in an interview. "We brought it up with Mr. O'Connor last month, he said he would look into it, and he didn't."

Mr. O'Connor has been under fire over the past several weeks for his handling of the Afghan detainee issue. Opposition parties have been calling for his resignation, accusing him of incompetence in ensuring the humane treatment of detainees transferred by Canadian Forces to Afghan authorities.

Mr. Trebble wasn't immediately available for comment, but Mr. Liakos said the computer issue was a minor one involving the printing of the tax returns. He said the riding's financial reporting was overdue following Mr. Dorion's tenure as president, and Mr. Trebble was used "in a pinch" to get them up to date. Mr. Liakos said he consulted the House of Commons to find out how they could make a reimbursement for the costs.

"It was an emergency situation and we took care of it right away without being asked to," Mr. Liakos said, calling the cost "minimal."

A spokeswoman for Mr. O'Connor directed queries to Mr. Liakos's statements and said there would be no further comment.

Mr. Dorion counters that the amount of money involved is immaterial.

"We went after Mr. Dingwall on a 97-cent pack of gum," Mr. Dorion said of David Dingwall, the former Royal Canadian Mint president criticized by the Tories over his expenses. "If it starts here how far will it go?"

Mr. Dorion added that he has nothing but praise for Mr. O'Connor as an MP and as a cabinet minister.

A Conservative source said Mr. Dorion has an axe to grind with the riding association because it failed to throw resources behind his failed bid for Ottawa city council last November. The source said Mr. Dorion had also expected to get a staff job with Mr. O'Connor.

A few points:

I believe Mr. Dorion made a few appearances on Army.ca a couple of years ago to support Mr. O'Connor when some members – me included – attacked him for his duties as opposition defence critic and, later, as a candidate.

• This is not, necessarily, a tempest in a teapot.  Mr. Dorion is correct to note than that even 97¢ packs of gum can bring discredit upon politicians.

• On the other hand, the last paragraph may say it all.  Some (many? most?) journalists detest Mr. O'Connor and they will rake up any muck, however incidental, to try to damage his reputation.

 
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070803/cabinet_shuffle_070803/20070803?hub=Canada

Earlier, cabinet ministers were told not to leave the country after Aug. 27, but that date has been moved up to Aug. 13, Taber told CTV's Canada AM on Friday from Charlottetown.

Harper didn't confirm he is considering a cabinet shuffle, but didn't rule it out as an option when speaking to reporters on Thursday.

"Obviously, we'll have to make a decision on that before we reach the fall session, one way or the other,'' Harper said in response to a question about cabinet changes.

"And you can anticipate we'll make our decisions on that, one way or another, fairly shortly.''

Taber said that's the clearest hint yet that Harper may be considering some changes.

"I've never heard him be so expansive when he was answering a question about a cabinet shuffle," Taber said.

There have been rumours for months that Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor could be transferred out of the weighty portfolio.

O'Connor has stirred controversy with his comments about the treatment of suspected Taliban detainees in Afghan prisons and funding for the funerals of military personnel. If he is shifted, others are likely to move as well.


"When you shuffle a senior minister such as himself, this creates a domino effect. We're hearing this cabinet shuffle could be as big as half of Mr. Harper's 31-member cabinet," Taber said.


"We're hearing Maxime Bernier, industry minister; Vic Toews, treasury board; Stockwell Day, public safety minister -- and he's the one people they are thinking could move into defence."

The caucus meeting -- the first since Parliament broke in June, was supposed to wrap up Friday morning with a final meeting, but ministers were sent home early for the long weekend
 
Sunday's Citizen was saying Jim Prentice for MND.
 
Are we the only country that places those with the least amount of information in positions where obvious experience in the field would be logical. We wouldn't put a truck driver in charge of the Medical Assn.,or place a waitress as the Teachers Federation head?. Yet nobody seems perplexed when a lawyer or worse,a political appointee takes over as Minister of National Defence. Conner and the Harper Government have become poll freaks .Makes me think of Mr. Dithers and the Liberal mess they replaced.Sadly, there still is no leadership in Ottawa,just a strange brew called Liberal Lite.
 
You need someone with experience yes.  Political experience.  The CDS is the guy with the field experience.  The MND has to be able to represent the military at Cabinet and be able to represent that role in the House of Commons.  If he has a military background great but not necessary.  O'Connor has shown consistently that he isn't up to the task, making one goof up after another.  Replacing him is long over due. 
 
"The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools." Thucydides.

 
FWIW, Bill Graham had the makings of a great MND - though he had no military service behind his belt, he had sound jugement and did a good job of communicating the military's need to the Gov't.

Unfortunately, Mr O'Connor suffers from "foot in mouth" disease.
 
geo said:
FWIW, Bill Graham had the makings of a great MND - though he had no military service behind his belt, he had sound judgement and did a good job of communicating the military's need to the Gov't.

Unfortunately, Mr O'Connor suffers from "foot in mouth" disease.

And the disease keeps reoccurring.
 
geo said:
FWIW, Bill Graham had the makings of a great MND - though he had no military service behind his belt, he had sound jugement and did a good job of communicating the military's need to the Gov't.

Unfortunately, Mr O'Connor suffers from "foot in mouth" disease.

He did look out of place surrounded by all those Liberals. had he crossed the floor, I would support it.
 
Ummm - my post was not meant to be political - it was only to point out that a good politician (Oxymoron?) holding the defence portfolio, does not have to have military service in his portfolio.  A sound jugement, paired to a knowledgeable staff (Esp the CDS) is what is required...

Graham & Hillier were an effective combination, O'Connor & Hillier weren't
 
O'Connor has not been all that bad. He may have stuck his foot in his mouth a few times but look at how often he has had a microphone in his face.  I don't see too many other ministers on TV as often except for a few, Baird, McKay, Flaherty, the PM.  O'Connor has been in charge of spending a huge amount of money and there are certain programs he has helped push through very quickly.  A lot of gear has been either purchased or is about to be on his watch.  We all know the list of items.  He takes his job very seriously and I think that he has been a champion for military in cabinet.  Never in my life time has there been a trio for the military like Harper, O'Connor and Hillier.  These guys are making things happen.  Long, long overdue kit is being purchased and they are committing this country to new equipment, which will allow new capabilities that would have never taken place under the Liberals.  C-17, AOP/V, Leopard II, Arctic Warfare Centre, Naval Station Nanisivik.

And as for him being an embarrassment to the government, I don't buy it.  Why?  Because most of the public just does not care a rats corpse about the Canadian Armed Forces.  They can't tell you the MND's name, they can't tell you what arrived in Abbotsford yesterday, or what a Leopard 2A6M is, or a what a  C-130J is, or where Kandahar is, or what you would use an AOP/V for etc....  The public just could not care less.  We do, that's why we're here.  But they don't.  So, how could O'Connor be bringing down the fortunes of the government?

I think he should stay where he is and somene in Ottawa should pay a spin doctor somewhere to get him some badly needed political grooming.  Keep him away from the tv cameras and the reporters, and let him keep working like a pitt bull on behalf of the military and the public.  I hope Harper does not cave into the press and sack O'Connor.  It's the media that has created this frenzy, the public hasn't really noticed anything at all.

Can you imagine two average people standing around the water cooler talking about the public rift between O'Connor and Hillier and how shocked they are that the PM can let such a disgrace continue for another moment?  Not likely.  They're much more interested in daycare, the price of gas and the new tv fall line-up.

 
Sounds about right newfin.  But O'Connors fate is probably all ready sealed.
 
We should do a poll about: do you think the poll companies help democracy or hinders it?
 
We'll all find out later today about Mr. O'Conner's fate, once the PM is done rearranging his wardrobe, eh I mean cabinet.

PM's cabinet shuffle.

Will you please all stand up and take one step over to the next chair on your left. Now, whatever it reads on that chair infront of you, is now your new job, congratulations.

" Jeez sorry Mr. O'Connor, seems someone failed to put a chair out for you, but gosh buddy, old pal, look on the bright side, you can have the choice pick of all those empty seats at the back of the house all to yourself, as an independent." ;D
Comic strip should be inserted here of Mr. O' Conner's chin hitting the floor and the PM smiling while making the peace sign behind Mr. O'Connor head, but I can't draw, sorry. ;D
 
Speculation piece on CTV last night said OConner, Mackay and Flaherty to get shuffled and Prentice likely to get a more high profile portfolio. I wonder why Laurie Hawn wouldn't be considered for MND?
 
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