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Lynndie England - Patriot or Torturer: What do you think?

Did you hear this so called soldier‘s sister defending her? It went something to the effect of "She didn‘t do what she did in those pictures. It was all posed". What a scumbag. Now she is reportedly 5 months pregnant with the child of one of the other soldiers who was charged with the abuse. How is it possible that these 2 were even allowed to reproduce?
 
so, we put 150,000 teenagers in a country with guns, and we‘re surprised that a few of them acted stupid?

Of those 150,00, we‘re surprised that a few sargents were sadistic b@st@rds?

The chain of command worked. The dummies were caught, and dealt with. The only question in my mind was were they (at General/Political level)correct to cover it up? I think they were wrong to try to cover it up- too many knew.

Another fine Army screwed by dummies.

Cheers-Garry
 
Originally posted by Wesley H. Allen, CD:
[QB] For those who dont know Lyndsie, she is the 21 yr old who has made headlines throughout the world and has become a household name fo the wrong reasons.......

Must defend my grandfather‘s Army here for a minute

--- the perps were all nailed in JANUARY 04 see
http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/reports/2004/800-mp-bde.htm

--- the media are in the spotlight as total DUMMIES in not getting onto this story in January.

And of course you can see his regiment here which today is the 20th Engr Bn of the 4th Inf Div at Fort Hood TX, they just came back from IRAQ without massive egg on their face --- see www.donlowconcrete.com/Engineers
 
Originally posted by Garry:
[qb] so, we put 150,000 teenagers in a country with guns, and we‘re surprised that a few of them acted stupid?

Of those 150,00, we‘re surprised that a few sargents were sadistic b@st@rds?

The chain of command worked. The dummies were caught, and dealt with. The only question in my mind was were they (at General/Political level)correct to cover it up? I think they were wrong to try to cover it up- too many knew.

Another fine Army screwed by dummies.
[/qb]
I agree with Garry. The events were reported to the CofC, are being investigated and will be dealt with, and the process began even before the evidence was published in the media... Where‘s the problem ??? They are doing much better than we were immediately after our thing in Somalia...

The issue there is not one of Leadership, but one of personal values and ethics by those who were involved.
I admire Mr Rumsfeld for taking responsibility, none of our politicians would have the balls to do that. I hope he stays in his job, and I am sure he will gain the respect of many in the US Military.
 
I know this isnt the best time... but take a look at this persons view of Guantanamo Bay... I saw this little cartoon a long time ago and found it quite entertaining.

http://www.stickdeath.com/frameset.htm

Go to that site and then find the movie that is called The Carrot Patch
 
Originally posted by Jungle:
[qb]

I admire Mr Rumsfeld for taking responsibility, none of our politicians would have the balls to do that. I hope he stays in his job, and I am sure he will gain the respect of many in the US Military. [/qb]
While I too admire Sec Def Rumsfeld, I believe he will be gone soon.

As stated in another post, Sec Def is responsible for what is supposedly a very poor working relationship between Sec Def and the Pentagon.

Sec Def messed with the Pentagon estimates of troop numbers to fit his agenda. The failure of the American Army to go in with the numbers they initially requested, due to Sec Def meddling, is likely responsible for the consequent failure to complete the security and safety requirements of post war Iraq. In my mind, the Pentagon is the likely centre of excellence for "Theatre Strategic" and "Operational" level estimates and planning. Not the office of the Sec Def with his technology agenda.

The current Abu Ghraib atrocity has occured on the Sec Def‘s watch. No doubt a not so tenuous link can probably be made between the shortage of troops, the increase in casualties, and the consequent stress and frustration of the troops.

The Sec Def, once he resigns, should read Robert Leonhard‘s "Principles of War for the Information Age". Guaranteed his military experts in the Pentagon have.
 
Man faces charges for shower photos of soldiers
Associated Press

WALNUT CREEK, Calif. â ” A former National Guard commander accused of photographing naked female U.S. soldiers as they showered at Iraq‘s Abu Ghraib prison faces legal proceedings, officials said.

Capt. Leo Merck, 32, of Fremont, Calif., allegedly took the photos Nov. 12 and was turned in the next day by the three women.

Merck and the women were part of the 870th Military Police Company of Pittsburg, which patrolled parts of the same prison where other U.S. soldiers photographed their humiliating treatment of naked Iraqi prisoners.

Soldiers from the 870th passed through the army‘s Fort Lewis in Washington state last month after leaving Iraq, where they served on active duty for just over a year. Merck has been ordered to return to Fort Lewis to face legal action.

Officials at Fort Lewis said they didn‘t know his whereabouts. Calls to his home in Fremont were not returned.

A spokeswoman for Merck‘s local National Guard company said Friday he will face "the process in which soldiers are held accountable under the Uniform Code of Military Justice." She did not say whether Merck would face a court-martial.

Earlier this week, the Contra Costa Times reported that Merck, an accountant in civilian life, had been stripped of his command and could face a dishonourable discharge or court-martial.

First of all, WOW. That prison is ****ed up. Secondly, anyone else see any parallells here? In a way, the only difference between the victims of the two incidents is their status as either US troops or PWs. If they nail this guy, then it sure puts a serious damper on any argument against punishing Englund, et. al.
 
US soldiers ‘seen raping woman‘ in new jail photos
By Julian Coman in Washington and Colin Freeman in Baghdad
(Filed: 09/05/2004)


America was braced last night for new allegations of torture in Iraq after military officials said that photographs apparently showing US soldiers beating an Iraqi prisoner nearly to death and having sex with a female PoW were about to be released.

The officials told the US television network NBC that other images showed soldiers "acting inappropriately with a dead body". A videotape, apparently made by US personnel, is said to show Iraqi guards raping young boys.


Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, had given warning that the worst was yet to come when he gave evidence to the Senate armed services committee on Friday. He said he had looked at the full array of unedited photographs from the Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad and found them "hard to believe".

"There are other photos that depict incidents of physical violence towards prisoners, acts that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhumane," said Mr Rumsfeld, offering his "deepest apology" to anyone abused.

As international anger continued to grow over the Americans‘ behaviour, one of the seven soldiers facing possible court martial for abusing detainees revealed that she did not read, or even see, a copy of the Geneva Convention until two months after she was charged. Specialist Sabrina Harman, 26, said she now understood that it was regularly breached at Abu Ghraib. "I read the entire thing, highlighting everything the prison is in violation of. There‘s a lot," she said.

Harman was accused earlier this year of a series of offences, including attaching wires to a hooded prisoner standing on a box, who was told he would be electrocuted if he fell off.

The claims made by Harman, who is confined to quarters in Baghdad awaiting trial, contradict US army assurances that all soldiers are familiar with the Geneva Convention.

She said that in the area where suspected insurgents were held, army and intelligence officers "made the rules as they went". Her own unit, based in Maryland, was not trained in internment duties. "The Geneva Convention was never posted and none of us remember taking a class to review it."

Her comments, made in an e-mail published by the Washington Post yesterday, came as members of her unit tried to offset some of the responsibility for mistreating prisoners - pictures of which have caused fury in the Arab world.

Harman‘s mother, Robin, said her daughter, who had taken pictures in Abu Ghraib as evidence of mistreatment, had been made a scapegoat.

In the e-mails, Harman - a former pizza parlour assistant manager - said her job at the jail was to soften prisoners before interrogation. "They would bring in one to several prisoners at a time, already hooded and cuffed," she said. "The [military police] job was to keep them awake - make it **** so they would talk."

Some would be stripped, searched and made to stand or kneel for hours. "If the prisoner didn‘t give what they wanted, then it was all taken away until [military intelligence] decided."

Maj Gen Geoffrey Miller, the US army commander now in charge of Abu Ghraib, said the military would continue to run the jail, despite calls from some US officials to close it.

"Our interrogation teams have to ensure they can get the best intelligence, but within the requirements of the Geneva Convention," he said. "We may have made mistakes in the past, but I will guarantee you we will fix those mistakes."

"¢ Soldiers in the Queen‘s Lancashire Regiment, some of whose troops have been accused of torturing Iraqi prisoners of war, have been ordered by senior officers to hand over every photograph they took while in Iraq.

The regiment is at the centre of a Royal Military Police investigation after the Daily Mirror printed pictures, now widely thought to be posed, of soldiers apparently beating up and urinating on a PoW last year. Officers want the troops‘ photographs to prevent potentially damaging images appearing in the media, and to compare them with the Mirror‘s pictures to check authenticity.

"¢ The Ministry of Defence confirmed that soldiers from the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers were facing charges over abuse of prisoners in Iraq. Military police launched an inquiry last year following the discovery of pictures appearing to show Iraqis being forced to commit sexual acts.

7 May 2004: Treated like a dog by US guard
2 April 2003: US ‘will adhere‘ to Geneva Convention
27 March 2003: Why there are two sides to every picture


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After the last weeks events and reading various sources of what has happened and what is or may come to light could it be vengeance because of 9/11 over riding common sense,training or a critical lack of training when it comes to a Foe with in the U.S. Military?

As of now I think Dubya,Rumsfeld and the J.C.S. are responsible and Dubya‘s apology was only made to the King of Jordan not to the people of Iraq and with every move they try to dig them selves out it is piling on twice as much.

I for one feel sorry for Maj.Baker,even though he can be a royal pain in the bum sometimes ;) and the rest of the U.S. Military who are being tared with the same brush and hope that those of us who post here remember that we had our mini Abu Ghaib in Somalia and I remenber how ashamed and angry I felt when all became public and the comments made to me at the time and I just ask that you think before you cast your stone.
 
Is it me or are US military police units just full of misfits and retards?
 
It certainly sounds like this second wave of photos (Video?) is going to make the first ones look like a GI trip to Disneyland.

I truly, truly feel sorry for the HUGE majority of US soldiers who have done nothing wrong at all and who are probably going to suffer as a result of the mistakes of the ignorant, slack jawed, few.

It‘s never right when the majority suffers for the trespasses of the few. (Unless it‘s Pte. Bloggins who screws up at inspection again)
 
Singlehandedly these few unprofessional losers, have caused an real increased danger of fellow coalition soldiers, and increased the hatred for their country and the west throughout the arab world.

With this hate generated by these unforgiving events, even westerner held captive now (and later on civvy or military may be REALLY tortured, and then killed all because of lack of leadership, proper supervision, and proper trg, and the passing of info.

There is not a doubt in my mind that many US citizens ( and other westerners) will now not support the war or the Bush govt, and the continued ‘war against the west‘ will rage even more intensly. I sure hope I am wrong, but the damage done is deeper than we all currently phathom.

Lets hope pers higher up the chain burn for this too.

Regards,

Wes
 
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