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Legislating the temperature of coffee

McG

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I don't think this should take an act of Parlaiment, but it would be nice if Timmies turned down the temperature of the pot ... or maybe maintained a seperate cooler pot for customers who don't dump the tonne of creamer into thier drink.  As it is, I need to buy the coffee 10 min before I intend to drink it so that it can cool.

Woman scalded by tea wants regulation of hot drinks
Lisa Marchant says she suffered 3rd-degree burns from Tim Hortons green tea

CBC
11 September 2013


A Winnipeg woman who was scalded by a cup of Tim Hortons tea is demanding new rules for how hot beverages should be served at restaurants.

Lisa Marchant suffered second- and third-degree burns on her left side after an extra-large cup of green tea spilled on her lap following a minor car accident in February.

"It just stops your life. I'm still not back," she told CBC News in an interview.

"Her skin came off just like a piece of loose leaf, and it was quite horrendous. I had never seen anything like that before," said her mother, Pearl Marchant.

There are currently no regulations governing the temperatures of hot beverages at restaurants — something the Marchants wants to see.

While Lisa Marchant has not filed a lawsuit against Tim Hortons, she wants to see governments develop safe beverage temperature rules.

"We all have to be careful; that's common sense. But I think … it is too hot. It should be lowered. I couldn't imagine my burn on a baby's face," she said.

When asked what she thinks Tim Hortons should do, she said, "Come up to the plate and say, 'Our water is too hot and we need to look at this in a safety aspect.'"

Marchant said she ordered the green tea from a Tim Hortons drive-thru location in northwest Winnipeg on Feb. 24.

She put the tea in the cup holder of the car her former husband, Scott Kilborn, was driving while they were picking up their daughter from a friend's place.

Shortly after leaving the drive-thru window, the vehicle collided with another car at an intersection.

"When that happened, the lid fell off of the tea and fell on Lisa's left lap, it just kind of poured out," said Kilborn.

"Lisa doesn't feel on the left side very well because of her disability, so for her to scream, it has to be intense," he added, referring to the cerebral palsy Marchant has on that side.

Recalled Marchant: "I remember something spilling on me and it wasn't intense. And then as it came on — I guess, it [was] soaking through more — then I felt it. And then I started screaming."

"I didn't even know we were in an accident. It was horrendous pain."

She suffered a third-degree burn to nearly half of the total burn area, which covers a majority of her left hip, left buttock and upper leg.

Marchant said medical experts told her the tea must have been around 88 C (190 F) to cause the burns she had.

According to the U.S.-based Burn Foundation, water at 69 C (156 F) is already hot enough to cause a third-degree burn in just one second.

Even liquids that are 66 C can scald people in seconds, said Frances MacDougall, a burn unit nurse at the B.C. Children's Hospital in Vancouver.

MacDougall said the issue of hot beverages is a big problem, with children and seniors most vulnerable to serious harm.

"There needs to be some accountability and responsibility on the part of industry to realize that their products can be causing damage or harm to their client," she said.

Marchant shared her experience as the CBC News I-Team conducted some tests to see how hot beverages can be at common Winnipeg coffee chains.

The I-Team took the temperatures of tea and coffee at a total of 15 Tim Hortons, Starbucks, Robin's Donuts and McDonald's drive-thru locations.

It found that coffee from those locations ranged between 71 C and 81 C. Tea temperatures ranged between 81 C and 89 C.

The hottest tea the I-Team found came from a McDonald's in south Winnipeg, with a temperature of 89.4 C.

McDonald's and Robin's Donuts did not return CBC News' requests for comment, while Starbucks says it is concerned about safety.

"All hot beverages need to be handled with care. Temperatures can vary but handling should always be the same," a Starbucks spokesperson said.

"We want a careful hand off when serving, we provide sleeves for the cups and sometimes double cup to make handling the cup more manageable, and we provide lids at hand off bars and condiment bars to cover the beverage as soon as customers have customized it."

Marchant, who is self-employed, filed a claim with Tim Hortons in the hopes it would assist her in covering the costs of her medical supplies.

But a letter from ClaimsPro, the adjustor for the coffee chain, states: "Our investigation has found no liability on our insured [Tim Hortons]. As such we are respectfully denying your request for compensation."

A spokesperson for Tim Hortons told CBC News the company is "very sorry to hear" about Marchant's incident.

Tim Hortons tea is served at a temperature that follows the Canadian Tea Association's best practices to achieve "optimal flavour," the spokesperson said.

According to the association's website, tea should be prepared at temperatures ranging between 85 C for white tea and 100 C for black and herbal teas.

The association also calls for those teas to steep for between one and six minutes, depending on the type of tea.

Tim Hortons did not comment on what temperature a beverage should be before it's considered safe enough to give to customers.
WARNING: GRAPHIC IMAGE - http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/story/2013/09/10/mb-hot-tea-coffee-burns-winnipeg-iteam.html
 
Just out of curiosity; what do these people make their tea or coffee at home with?  I am sure they boil their water there. 

There is no cure for stupid.  When label warnings say that the contents are HOT, it means the contents are HOT. 
 
year round ice caps might be the answer..
holy lifton she got burned some bad, should have let it cool down in the cup holder - would probably be a big settlement if the lid was not on correctly and this happened during the hand-off at the drive thru window..

*edit for now I see it was in a cup holder...*
 
Sounds awfully familiar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaurants
 
George Wallace said:
When label warnings say that the contents are HOT, it means the contents are HOT.
But then you're asking for more trouble because they have to bring the hot cup up to their face to read the label.  ;)

But I agree with the OP -- no more unnecessary legislation!
 
It really makes you wonder sometimes.  One of the reasons that I like Timmie's steeped tea is that they actually make it properly.  Tea requires water that is quite a bit hotter than coffee in order to brew properly.  So yes, their tea is served hot - act accordingly.  What's next?  Shall they warm the ice caps so that they don't give anyone an ice cream headache?
 
Journeyman said:
But I agree with the OP -- no more unnecessary legislation!

Yup.

There should be a law against that.
 
Pretty common result, but a root cause analysis of the event actually identifies several failure points:

1.  Hot product
2.  Insecure lid
3.  Insecure transportation / storage
4.  A CAR ACCIDENT
5.  Ability of passenger to respond
6.  Passenger's clothing / PPE

The focus on the temperature is expected, but the article clearly explains that tea is supposed to brewed in a specific manner.  The customer's expectation for a quality product requires the  high temperature.

Look at this in another way:  Let's say that the passenger placed a pair of ice skates in the back seat and the car was involved in an accident.  As a result, the skates flew forward and struck the passenger.  You wouldn't see a news article asking for skate manufactures to dull their blades - you would see this as a failure to properly store the skates.

In my opinion, the problem lies in the passenger relying on the car's "beverage holder" as a secure storage site for an extremely hot drink.  It is clearly not designed for such a duty.  In fact, I would hazard a guess that the car's owner's manual makes a disclaimer covering this exact situation.  If you're going to drink 90 C tea, don't try it in a moving vehicle.  ::)
 
While we're on this subject we should limit the speed of bicycles, no more corners on tables. Sharp knives? I think not. Someone in the government really needs to get on this! Think of the victims, I was unhappily one of them.
 
Only one way to ensure something like this never happens again:

Every person on Earth must wear an "Iron Man" suit at all times.....
 
I don't believe them when they say beverage holders are not safe.....my car comes with a CD thingy and all you have to do is hit a button and the cup holder comes out....simply place you cup in the holder and press the button again....it tightens it right up.......twits!!  ::)
 
I think the nanny state is great. Right up there along with the Big Brother surveillance state.  Personal responsibility and accountability?  Pshaw!
 
CombatDoc said:
I think the nanny state is great. Right up there along with the Big Brother surveillance state.

Most people don't realize that one is just a hair's breadth away from the other. After all, isn't nanny just a synonym for watcher?
 
Although you may disagree with his methods, I think that Edward Snowden's revelations on the extent of the surveillance state have lifted the veil in the extent of the nanny/Big Brother/"if it only saves one life" state.  No argument from me, MlM.
 
CombatDoc said:
Although you may disagree with his methods, I think that Edward Snowden's revelations on the extent of the surveillance state have lifted the veil in the extent of the nanny/Big Brother/"if it only saves one life" state.  No argument from me, MlM.

WOW!  From scalding hot coffee/tea to Edward Snowden.  What an interesting twist.
 
George Wallace said:
WOW!  From scalding hot coffee/tea to Edward Snowden.  What an interesting twist.

Does this mean you want to dump scalding hot coffee on Edward Snowden to close the loop?  ;D
 
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