Justin Trudeau hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I have long said that you could fund the CAF to 4 percent of GDP, but we would still lag behind in NATO and be much the same where we are.

It's never the money, it's politics. It's procedures. It's the pork-barreling in our defence spending that makes us a paper tiger in NATO.

My only hope in all of this for the CAF and the GoC, whatever the political stripe that may be, is that it will rouse them out of the "Peace Dividend" slumber. The world has been unstable since 1945. We have used geography, proximity, and association as a Defence Policy ever since. ICBMs don't care how close to the U.S. or how far from Russia/China we are.

Don't give us a dime more, but let us spend money on defence like it matters. The fact we follow the same rules for purchasing a fighter aircraft as we do for buying office furniture for a Service Canada office is disgraceful. Don't treat defense procurement as a stimulus package for Canadian Industry. There I said it.

We spend so much money, time, and effort trying to get that money to stay in Canada; be it by awarding contracts to companies with no capability to produce items without first "retooling" and"developing the production lines", or by hamstringing perfectly competent and competitive bidders by forcing the project to be made in St. Margaret de Poutain de Champignon, QC because the ruling government either lost the seat in the election, or won it with promises.

We spend so much money and staff hours jumping through TBS regulations that are great for other departments, but are terrible for defence procurement. Some items you have to sole source, because there are technologies and capabilities no one else makes. By doing the bid process, you get companies clamoring for a project they can't deliver on, but because they tick the bright boxes on the score sheet....

I truly and honestly belief we need to split from PSPC and legislate that its not beholden to TBS, only to the PBO/PCO. The guiding principles of this new Defence Procurement department should be "Off the shelf, from somewhere else" if there isn't an industry in Canada.

BOOTFORGEN has demonstrated how well we do when we are able to actually get what we need, instead of lining the pockets of a Canadian company that got lucky.

That, but with tanks, fighters, ships, weapons systems....

 

[Quirky]

Don't give us a dime more, but let us spend money on defence like it matters. The fact we follow the same rules for purchasing a fighter aircraft as we do for buying office furniture for a Service Canada office is disgraceful. Don't treat defense procurement as a stimulus package for Canadian Industry.

*angry Quebec enters the chat.

 

[Dale Denton]

If this gov't at all wanted to undertake any changes to CAF policy/procurement, even a budget increase - anything - it would have announced it in the last 2 weeks, or at least made it known we're working on making changes...

"certainly reflections to have"

This is our long-term budgetary response to an unexpected and devastating new land war in europe started by a country we have a long and lightly defended border with whose victims have very strong ties to Canada.

A genuinely honest question for everyone:

"What world event would have to happen for us (gov't) to force us to make the necessary changes to the CAF (its org, people, policies, procurement, vision, etc...)?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

If this gov't at all wanted to undertake any changes to CAF policy/procurement, even a budget increase - anything - it would have announced it in the last 2 weeks, or at least made it known we're working on making changes...

"certainly reflections to have"

This is our long-term budgetary response to an unexpected and devastating new land war in europe to a country by a country we have a long and lightly defended border with whose victims have very strong ties to Canada.

A genuinely honest question for everyone:

"What world event would have to happen for us (gov't) to make the necessary changes to the CAF (its org, people, policies, procurement, vision, etc...)?

Alien invasion or zombie apocalypse comes to mind. Both are never going to happen, therefore, it would be the most likely scenario

 

[Jarnhamar]

"certainly reflections to have"

My favorite part.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Unless they cut some of the process it doesn't matter; large defence spending is now a 6 or 7 department affair with no single person able to make a final decision until you get to the PM. At $40M a lot of IRBs etc kick in, and now TB wants us to do 'Sustainment Business Case Analysis" for any NP project over $20M, which is a formal process with about a two year lead time so far, just to figure out if the support plan makes sense.

Insanity; I could make a fortune as a consultant just sitting in on all the stupid meetings.

 

[GK .Dundas]

The system actually works perfectly, it isn't designed to procure equipment for use by the Canadian Armed Forces. That is however a byproduct and aside from the work generated by the system there is no end product.
And it gotten to the point where the Armed Forces are no longer considered the end-user and to be honest I suspect no is really is too sure who is. Or if there is even an end-user.

 

[CBH99]

A genuinely honest question for everyone:

"What world event would have to happen for us (gov't) to force us to make the necessary changes to the CAF (its org, people, policies, procurement, vision, etc...)?

Someone with some common sense, a drive for efficiency, the fortitude to tell the system that it's broken and needs fixing, and a vision of what the country should look like from a reasonable and doable perspective, while staying ambitious.

Until the leaders of various departments can admit to themselves that they are part of the problem - and communicate a solution to Parliament, nothing will change.


World event required? A decently smart person, with a big picture in mind, getting into federal politics.

Too bad those ppl tend to go into business instead.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Unless they cut some of the process it doesn't matter; large defence spending is now a 6 or 7 department affair with no single person able to make a final decision until you get to the PM. At $40M a lot of IRBs etc kick in, and now TB wants us to do 'Sustainment Business Case Analysis" for any NP project over $20M, which is a formal process with about a two year lead time so far, just to figure out if the support plan makes sense.

Insanity; I could make a fortune as a consultant just sitting in on all the stupid meetings.

Believe me... you don't want to be that kind of consultant

 

[Good2Golf]

If this gov't at all wanted to undertake any changes to CAF policy/procurement, even a budget increase - anything - it would have announced it in the last 2 weeks, or at least made it known we're working on making changes...

"certainly reflections to have"

This is our long-term budgetary response to an unexpected and devastating new land war in europe started by a country we have a long and lightly defended border with whose victims have very strong ties to Canada.

A genuinely honest question for everyone:

"What world event would have to happen for us (gov't) to force us to make the necessary changes to the CAF (its org, people, policies, procurement, vision, etc...)?

NATO Article 5 and a less narcissistic government…

 

[FJAG]

"What world event would have to happen for us (gov't) to force us to make the necessary changes to the CAF (its org, people, policies, procurement, vision, etc...)?

With this government and the existing bureaucracy there isn't one.

It isn't one thing; its both things.

 

[OldSolduer]

With this government and the existing bureaucracy there isn't one.

It isn't one thing; its both things.

This government is fervently hoping the Canadian military withers on the vine, dries up and blows away. FJAG we both know what his father was like - he detested the military until October 1970 and after that it was hung out to dry. This PM is worse. At least the US had Ronald Reagan and the UK had Lady Maggie to put some starch in Pierre's spine - there is no one like that to figuratively cuff the young prince upside the head and tell him to smarten the f&ck up.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Believe me... you don't want to be that kind of consultant

I sure don't, but kind of hilarious to me how many people we don't listen to their recommendations when they are within the system, but suddenly pay attention when they come back as a SME hired by consulting firm with an impressive letter head. Maybe I should just get ahead of the curve and make my standard email signature block fancier with a wax seal or something?

Some things got waived during Afghanistan, so it's possible, but it's a lot easier to do when you are buying something from an OEM. The basic processes were still in place though, and it was Harper that brought in the procurement hydra that is DPS, the gift that keeps on giving ulcers. I don't care what they say, you don't 'streamline' anything by adding more oversight and additional stakeholders with new processes on top of the old ones.

Honestly a decade or so under some kind of benevolent dictator to burn the system down and start from scratch is probably needed to root out all the mini empires, legacy processes etc and build something that makes more sense.

 

[OldSolduer]

Honestly a decade or so under some kind of benevolent dictator to burn the system down and start from scratch is probably needed to root out all the mini empires, legacy processes etc and build something that makes more sense.

I'll join your consulting team.

there is no such thing as a benevolent dictator.

 

[Kirkhill]

Believe me... you don't want to be that kind of consultant

It's a competitive field. I'm surprised there is an empty chair.

 

[GK .Dundas]

This government is fervently hoping the Canadian military withers on the vine, dries up and blows away. FJAG we both know what his father was like - he detested the military until October 1970 and after that it was hung out to dry. This PM is worse. At least the US had Ronald Reagan and the UK had Lady Maggie to put some starch in Pierre's spine - there is no one like that to figuratively cuff the young prince upside the head and tell him to smarten the f&ck up.

That is almost hysterically funny that presupposes that Canadian Prime Ministers actually pay that much attention to the military. It is just another Government department to them and therein lies the problem..It's not but that is the way it is.
The military is about the only governmental body whose members are required to lay down their lives of asked to.take the lives of their fellow human beings.
What Canadian politicians see is a department that whines about the size of budgets has members who very publicly can't keep it in their pants . Can't win you an election but could conceivably loose one for you.
And they tend to dress a little oddly too.
You're not dealing with malice by and large you dealing with a strange combination of ignorance lack of world level experience and irritation.

 

[PuckChaser]

Just floating the idea to see the polling numbers. He's not serious because the rest of Canada isn't serious about defense.

 

[dapaterson]

Fixing Defence procurement starts with fixing the officers who know nothing, decide to ignore all advice on the process, and waste a year or two before restarting and following the process in time to be replaced by an officer who knows nothing and ignores all advice on the process...

 

[Navy_Pete]

I'll join your consulting team.

there is no such thing as a benevolent dictator.

No, that's true, but really just thinking of someone in a position of authority that was more worried about getting specific things accomplished than a news soundbite or shares & likes. Harper really set the tone by driving the entire government from the PMO, so definitely doable. Don't agree with a lot of it, but there was never any doubt about where the decisions were made or who had what marching orders. Right now it's a herd of bureacratic cats doing whatever they think is best from their particular departmental perspective, vice a singular vision aligning all of that to what actually achieves the government strategic goals, and the primary concern of the kids in short pants is PR, not effectiveness.

The funny thing is that we've already gone to integrated teams at the working level with PSCP embedded in DND and vice versa, but it splits off back into departmental reporting above that, and all kinds of random departments have input at high levels, so lots of opportunities to spike the wheels and add delays. Nothing like being second guessed by someone who doesn't really understand what you do, but took a two day course so is going to tell you what theoretical best practices are, based on the project description which isn't accurate, because someone from PSPC changed what the project manager wrote so it 'sounded better'.