Just finished reserve infantry DP1, now what?-survival guide

[Jarnhamar]

This post is aimed towards reservists who have just finished their DP1 Infantry, or even just reservists who became trained this summer.

Rule #1- Your regiment doesn't "owe you" anything.
Lots of troops come back and seem to think their regiments owe them for I don't know, passing their course? *
Basically, give me whatever course or class B tasking or I'll quit.  Here's the thing. The reserves have a BIG turn over rate. I just head a statistic last weekend which said out of a new platoon of 30 reservists, the retention rate of them staying in the CF after 3 years (i believe) is 2%.  2% of the 40 people you went through training with will still be at your unit in 3 years. Regiments DO need soldiers but not at the expense of being blackmailed. We just had a kid say he wasn't going to show up until he got a support weapons course. Unless we give it to him he'll quit. We told him to bring in his gear Thursday to be turned in.

2# Hiding from work.
People seem afraid to quit. They finish their summer training then don't show up to clean in, don't show up to parade, they have identa-call and hide from their regiment calling them. Don't answer facebook messages.
I guess they just think if they hide in their room and tell mommy and daddy to say their not here sooner or later the big bad army is going to go away. Surprise it doesn't work like that.  You have thousands of dollars worth of equipment.If you don't wanna play anymore then stop hiding and turn your stuff in. If you just wanna hide then after 30 days of hiding, you'll be warned your NES (Non effective strength) then wait another 30 days or some crap then after a few other formalities you'll be kicked out of the military, given a 5f (meaning you cannot get a government job) AND if I'm not mistaken you'll owe the government a few thousand dollars and if it's one thing that gives the government a boner it's when someone owes them money.
Don't be a coward. If you want to quit, then it's not a big deal just quit.

#3 Class B
Everyone wants class B work. A driver, enemy forces, role players, whatever.
It's good money and the work is pretty fun.  Here's he thing, class B jobs can be a huge trap. You see guys and girls going from class B job to class B job with nothing to show for save a paycheck blown on drinking video games and pizza.  Chances are you won't be put on any career-progressing type courses. Going from class B to class B was one of my biggest mistakes and really set me back.  I've met people in 2000 doing specific class B jobs over the summer who for the last 9 years have did the same thing every summer. No full time job, no school, just odd jobs here and there for the army. Don't be that guy. Go to school or get a full time job.  If you really like the army that much, go regular force. I hate when people say that "If you want full time then go reg force". There isn't a very big requirement for combat arm reservists working full time. If that's what you wanna do then go full time. If you want to do some work to save or school or whatever then save up for school and go. Don't keep getting sucked back in by the prospect of easy money. I know guys who have been "saving for school" for 7 years.

I'm currently dealing with a lot of young guys who come to me begging for employment. "I need a job I can't pay my bills I can't pay my rent I can't afford groceries".
It's not welfare guys. If you have bills to pay DON'T count on working class A days or class B.  I actually had a soldier tell me he wanted work because he can't pay his bills and he wants to be a better soldier.
But, he doesn't wanna be gone for a month or two or anything. He doesn't want to leave the city, he doesn't want to work weekends....
When I did find something for him he wanted to know what it was and then decide if he felt like doing it or not  :

#4-Excuses for not going into work.
If you don't want to work then say I'm busy.  Technically you only need to parade 1 night a month. That's it. It's better if you come in every night and every weekend obviously but your commitment is one 3 hour period a month.  If you can't even do that then you should consider leaving because you're wasting everyone's time. Making up wild excuses for not parading just looks silly and everyone See's through it.

#5-Being course loaded on PLQ
Don't be afraid to spend time as a private or a corporal. When someone asks your rank you should never say "I'm just a private". Be proud of your rank.  The CF is pushing for leadership so units are sending people on their leadership course NOT by who is ready, but by who is available.  Ultimately what happens is Young privates and corporals go on course get promoted and then they are leaders with no real time in as a troop.  Those first few years are important to make mistakes and learn from them BFORE you're responsible for others. Don't rush and especially don't be pushed into it.

#6-Junior ranks mess
The junior ranks mess in the reserves is important but right after work people run for their cars. They want to get home and play world of warcraft or Ghost recon. Won't even mention the goofy excuses I've heard of people trying to get out of a 20 minute mes meeting at the end of the night.
Here's the thing, in the full time army soldiers will spend 2 months together on basic training, 16 weeks together on their infantry course, be posted to a base and live with each other in the barracks. Spend months doing work up training together then deploy overseas together.
Reserves don't have that.  Aside from a quickie summer course there is no real time to bond with your peers. 3 hours a night training once a week (if everyone shows up) and maybe one weekend a month. That's it. That's not a lot of time to bond with people or get to now them. That's where the mess helps. Hang out  your mess after work even if it's for an hour. Your level 60 paladin can wait, believe me. Get to know your buddies and push your mess to have mess functions to get your peers together outside of a training environment.

#6-Watch your pay
Get a calendar and mark every day you work. The reserves is notorious for ******* up people's pay. We're like the only organization in the world that can get away with not paying their people on time every time. We just had a guy who was working for a month without getting paid. Another has been paid as a private for the last year and he's a corporal. That's a lot of money to be missing. That guy should have been watching his pay statements and said hey I'm missing $40 a day or whatever. You owe it to yourself to watch how much you're getting paid. The army isn't going to hold your hand and believe me they won't be in a hurry to pay you any money they owe you. Save yourself  lot of hassle and get a $5 calendar and just write down which days you work.

#7-PT
Don't be a lazy slob. I spent a lot of time being the slowest most out of shape guy on deployment. I never went to the gym, I always squeaked by BFTs. I could meet the minimum standard and I was happy with that.  Take a few days a week and work out. "The army doesn't pay for it" who cares. Have some personal pride it makes a big difference in how people see you and how you see yourself.

#8-Paper work
Some units are on top of paperwork, others aren't. Nothing is worse than spending a year or two at your regiment opening up your Unit Employment Record and it being empty. Then having to try and figure out each and every exercise you've been on, every qualification you've picked up. Just like your pay- in an ideal world it's all taken care of for you but in reality you need to be proactive. You can get pissed off when you find out it wasn't done for you but in the end it won't matter and it's just more work for you.

 

[GAP]

Excellent....should be required reading for every reservist......

 

[VIChris]

Thanks for the heads up. I always like to read stuff like this that pertains to the realities of a job. One of the big reasons I signed up for the reserves in the first place was the 'Soldier for a day' event, as it allowed me to speak directly with all the people there, and get insight not available at Forces.ca .

Again, thanks for taking the time to put this out there.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Out-standing. 

 

[Antoine]

Good reminder!

thanks

 

[kratz]

I'm reading this an could easily change a few phrases to be relevant to sailors (BMQ, NETP, demanding a boat coxswain's course, class B or C employment ect...), and the same application for ARAF. Your post was that well said FD.

 

[bdave]

AND if I'm not mistaken you'll owe the government a few thousand dollars and if it's one thing that gives the government a boner it's when someone owes them money.

This line was great.  :rofl:

 

[Dguy]

This was one of the best posts I have read here. I am going to pass it on to as many members of our unit as I can. Thank you for taking the time to write this down and explain it in straight forward terms.

Chimo !

 

[Jarnhamar]

Just want to bump this and expand on point #2 sorta.

DON'T BE AFRAID TO QUIT
For you new guys out there there is something called NES. Non-effective strength. Basically it's a list you get put on when you stop showing up for work.
As a reservist you are obligated to parade one training night per month. That's 3 ours a month. If you go a month without parading your chain of command should send you a warning letting you know that you need to come in and train at least once a month. If you don't for another month then your considered NES put on a list and the paperwork to start your release from the military is under way.

Now you have 4 options.
1. Go back to work and start training when required to do so.
2. Go into work and put in a memo to be placed on ED&T which is basically asking for X amount of months where you're not required to work or be bothered by the military.
3. Go in and say you want to quit, do the paper work hand your gear back in and be out of the army.
4. Be a coward and pretend that not answering the phone when it says Government of Canada will result in the Canadian Forces just forgetting about you and you go on way. Which won't happen really- you'll be kicked out of the military your name put in the credit bureau or whatever because you now have THOUSANDS of dollars with of government property that doesn't belong to you (and they want it back) and then take your shoes off because it's gonna hurt when you kick yourself in the ass since now you can't get a federal job.  Facts may be a little of there and there but that's basically what happens.

It's absolutely stupid to let the CF kick you out of the reserves on their terms and screw you're credit because you're too afraid to walk into work and say I quit.
I have no idea why people try and hide out and get away with this. I can only assume their afraid of getting in shit or getting talked into staying. Some years ago that DID happen (not that you new guys were around to remember).

It's not the same now.  With budget cuts and especially the lack of equipment were faced with if you REALLY want to quit then guys like me will be more than happy to help you write a memo, arrange a date to turn in your gear sign you off and send you your way.
The amount of NES soldiers a unit has negatively effects how much money they get so basically you're not ONLY screwing yourself over in the long run, you're screwing over everyone in the regiment you're with. 

Guys, girls. Life changes and peoples priorities change it's no big deal. If you don't want to be in the army (cf) anymore then quit, there's no shame in that.
The shame is when people try and hide like kids hiding from their parents.

 

[brihard]

Well said, I hadn't seen the original post.

I find attendance to be the single biggest hassle as a section commander in a reserve regiment.

I had another good one; I've had two of my soldiers use me as references for civilian job applications without asking me or telling me about it. That's one that pisses me off tremendously. They both got the civilian jobs, and now one of them (at The Source) has used that on more than one occasion as a reason not to show up for weekend exercises. I think in future it'll be part of my 'welcome to the section' brief to tell them 'Unless you've worked for me for six months or more, don't bother asking'

 

[Craig B]

This is a great post.

This one will be getting printed and put on the bulletin board.

 

[Pikache]

This post is aimed towards reservists who have just finished their DP1 Infantry, or even just reservists who became trained this summer.

great post. i'm going to add a few of my own thoughts

Rule #1- Your regiment doesn't "owe you" anything.
Lots of troops come back and seem to think their regiments owe them for I don't know, passing their course? *
Basically, give me whatever course or class B tasking or I'll quit.  Here's the thing. The reserves have a BIG turn over rate. I just head a statistic last weekend which said out of a new platoon of 30 reservists, the retention rate of them staying in the CF after 3 years (i believe) is 2%.  2% of the 40 people you went through training with will still be at your unit in 3 years. Regiments DO need soldiers but not at the expense of being blackmailed. We just had a kid say he wasn't going to show up until he got a support weapons course. Unless we give it to him he'll quit. We told him to bring in his gear Thursday to be turned in.

with what seems like numbers are going to be trimmed again for Reserves, you are using up a spot that your unit can use for a soldier who has a bit of sense of loyalty to the unit and not solely using army for own benefit.

2# Hiding from work.
People seem afraid to quit. They finish their summer training then don't show up to clean in, don't show up to parade, they have identa-call and hide from their regiment calling them. Don't answer facebook messages.
I guess they just think if they hide in their room and tell mommy and daddy to say their not here sooner or later the big bad army is going to go away. Surprise it doesn't work like that.  You have thousands of dollars worth of equipment.If you don't wanna play anymore then stop hiding and turn your stuff in. If you just wanna hide then after 30 days of hiding, you'll be warned your NES (Non effective strength) then wait another 30 days or some shit then after a few other formalities you'll be kicked out of the military, given a 5f (meaning you cannot get a government job) AND if I'm not mistaken you'll owe the government a few thousand dollars and if it's one thing that gives the government a boner it's when someone owes them money.
Don't be a coward. If you want to quit, then it's not a big deal just quit.

with kit shortages, you are holding onto kit that an another soldier can be using, especially in the reserves where this is never enough kit to go around.
and FFS, your army kit is not your personal paintball or airsoft gear

nothing annoys me more than a guy who goes on NES, don't show up for a while, and still expects to get his promotion to Cpl. and guys who don't want to parade, but still wants to say that they are in the army so don't quit. don't be those guys

#3 Class B
Everyone wants class B work. A driver, enemy forces, role players, whatever.
It's good money and the work is pretty fun.  Here's he thing, class B jobs can be a huge trap. You see guys and girls going from class B job to class B job with nothing to show for save a paycheck blown on drinking video games and pizza.  Chances are you won't be put on any career-progressing type courses. Going from class B to class B was one of my biggest mistakes and really set me back.  I've met people in 2000 doing specific class B jobs over the summer who for the last 9 years have did the same thing every summer. No full time job, no school, just odd jobs here and there for the army. Don't be that guy. Go to school or get a full time job.  If you really like the army that much, go regular force. I hate when people say that "If you want full time then go reg force". There isn't a very big requirement for combat arm reservists working full time. If that's what you wanna do then go full time. If you want to do some work to save or school or whatever then save up for school and go. Don't keep getting sucked back in by the prospect of easy money. I know guys who have been "saving for school" for 7 years.

I'm currently dealing with a lot of young guys who come to me begging for employment. "I need a job I can't pay my bills I can't pay my rent I can't afford groceries".
It's not welfare guys. If you have bills to pay DON'T count on working class A days or class B.  I actually had a soldier tell me he wanted work because he can't pay his bills and he wants to be a better soldier.
But, he doesn't wanna be gone for a month or two or anything. He doesn't want to leave the city, he doesn't want to work weekends....
When I did find something for him he wanted to know what it was and then decide if he felt like doing it or not  :

on the other side, if you do have time available, and you want to something other than doing stuff at your unit, take taskings and courses and find out more about army. not only you might get the chance to do some really cool stuff (OPFOR for CSOR or JTF2? hell yes), you'll learn about the army and how it works (and not work lol), even if it's doing stuff like CQ for summer. learning new skills and experiences that'll serve you in your mil and civvy career. as well meet and work with some of the most switched on people you'll ever meet.

but like OP said, don't get trapped by Cl B. know what you want, and plan your life accordingly

#4-Excuses for not going into work.
If you don't want to work then say I'm busy.  Technically you only need to parade 1 night a month. That's it. It's better if you come in every night and every weekend obviously but your commitment is one 3 hour period a month.  If you can't even do that then you should consider leaving because you're wasting everyone's time. Making up wild excuses for not parading just looks silly and everyone See's through it.

most of the time your leadership will understand if you are really busy and will allow you to take time off, or even put you on ED&T if you need it.
however, it's up to you to manage your time well. you should have a calendar of all the unit parade nights and exercises months in advance. try to get your civvy boss to schedule your shifts so that it's not in conflict with army nights. use your school time wisely. just because you have an exam on monday, and you have an unit ex on that weekend prior, that does not mean you can't study the week prior to your exam.

#5-Being course loaded on PLQ
Don't be afraid to spend time as a private or a corporal. When someone asks your rank you should never say "I'm just a private". Be proud of your rank.  The CF is pushing for leadership so units are sending people on their leadership course NOT by who is ready, but by who is available.  Ultimately what happens is Young privates and corporals go on course get promoted and then they are leaders with no real time in as a troop.  Those first few years are important to make mistakes and learn from them BFORE you're responsible for others. Don't rush and especially don't be pushed into it.

because of the way the reserves are, you will be placed in leadership position without benefit of a PLQ as a sect 2IC or sect comd. if you're a cpl, be ready to be told that you are in leadership position.

your pl cond and pl 2IC will understand that you will make mistakes and will help and guide you. embrace the opportunity to test yourself as a soldier and make the best out of the situation.

best advice i can give is that in your army career, you will have encountered leaders. some are good, some are bad. emulate the good qualities from the leaders you respect. don't do the stuff you noticed as bad from leaders you've met.

#6-Junior ranks mess
The junior ranks mess in the reserves is important but right after work people run for their cars. They want to get home and play world of warcraft or Ghost recon. Won't even mention the goofy excuses I've heard of people trying to get out of a 20 minute mes meeting at the end of the night.
Here's the thing, in the full time army soldiers will spend 2 months together on basic training, 16 weeks together on their infantry course, be posted to a base and live with each other in the barracks. Spend months doing work up training together then deploy overseas together.
Reserves don't have that.  Aside from a quickie summer course there is no real time to bond with your peers. 3 hours a night training once a week (if everyone shows up) and maybe one weekend a month. That's it. That's not a lot of time to bond with people or get to now them. That's where the mess helps. Hang out  your mess after work even if it's for an hour. Your level 60 paladin can wait, believe me. Get to know your buddies and push your mess to have mess functions to get your peers together outside of a training environment.

esp for young uns that aren't of age to drink, but you'll find that your army career will be much more enjoyable if you know the guys you are working with. there is something about fellowship and comradeship you'll form in the military that's totally different from any other civillian jobs. developing a sense of loyalty and bond with your unit and members of your unit starts with spending time at the mess and attending other unit social functions.

ask guys who have been in for 5 or more years why they choose to do the reserves thing. i'm going to bet that most will say despite the hard work and sometimes a lot of BS, being in the army is not like any other job in the world, and it has a lot to due with people you work with

#6-Watch your pay
Get a calendar and mark every day you work. The reserves is notorious for fucking up people's pay. We're like the only organization in the world that can get away with not paying their people on time every time. We just had a guy who was working for a month without getting paid. Another has been paid as a private for the last year and he's a corporal. That's a lot of money to be missing. That guy should have been watching his pay statements and said hey I'm missing $40 a day or whatever. You owe it to yourself to watch how much you're getting paid. The army isn't going to hold your hand and believe me they won't be in a hurry to pay you any money they owe you. Save yourself  lot of hassle and get a $5 calendar and just write down which days you work.

try not to totally rely on army pay to pay your bills. like now, army is notorious for cancelling courses and exs and parade nights. try to save up a little so that you're not screwed if something does happen

#8-Paper work
Some units are on top of paperwork, others aren't. Nothing is worse than spending a year or two at your regiment opening up your Unit Employment Record and it being empty. Then having to try and figure out each and every exercise you've been on, every qualification you've picked up. Just like your pay- in an ideal world it's all taken care of for you but in reality you need to be proactive. You can get pissed off when you find out it wasn't done for you but in the end it won't matter and it's just more work for you.

speaking on being proactive, because of part time nature of reserves, your leadership will not be able to help you out when you need it. they probably have a full time job and a family that takes up most of their time.

having said that, there is really no excuse why you can't get hold of your leadership if you need it, with cell phones and email widely available.

but it's up to you to initiate stuff. you need dates for tasking? want to go on a course? bug the shit out of your chain of command.

give them a chance to work and pass on info and other stuff down to you. that means don't bug them everyday, but follow up frequently enough. and never leave stuff until last minute.

if it's something really important, learn to write a memo, and keep track of all the paperwork. never hesitate to ask a question.

stuff like CF98s, course reports and other important paperwork, keep a copy of them somewhere safe in your house, just in case you need them. because you'll never know when your paperwork gets lost and you get screwed

 

[Jarnhamar]

Young solders returning to their parent unit from a  tour to Afghanistan.

Back "In the day"there used to be a phantom of sorts who would show up at ones reserve regiment.
He would have hair long enough just to push the dress regs.  Non-issue boots. Some civilian pattern kit. Rucksack, boonie hat when everyone was wearing that monstrosity we used to have. Maybe even bring civie snowshoes on a winter ex. This Corporal/MasterCorporal/Sergeant type would walk around chit chatting everyone but not really partake in training.
He stands at the back of class nodding and smiling while the instructor teaches. Now and then the instructor would stop and say
"Well, that's how we do it in Canada but what about overseas, Master Corporal so and so what did you guys do?"

And the class would silently turn and listen.The phantom would smile, cock his head then relate some story about having to cock his weapon once when a car wasn't slowing down for their VCP - which really wouldn't have anything to do with the class being taught but no one cared.  If he WAS out on ex he would be with HQ the whole time smoking and joking with the higher ups.
This of course is the reservist who did a tour to Bosnia back when tours to the reserves were as common as unicorns.
I exaggerate a little, but not that much...

Years ago tours were uncommon but now reserve regiments routinely send a dozen guys and girls per roto.
Having a tour is a big milestone in a reservists career and it's great to be able to pass on lessons learned from overseas- but it's not deserving of the holier than thou attitude some guys are coming home with.

When you do go on tour and come how you need to check your  attitude at the door.  A lot of guys say 'I won't be like that' and when they get home they may not even notice it but it's there believe me.  (I'm certain I've been guilty of that very thing).

Some will go on and on about 'how gay the training is' compared to work up training.
Feel certain training is below them.
Undermind instructors snorting and laughing about 'the old reserve way' of doing something
Have a false sense of entitlement that the regiment somehow owes them something for deploying and the worst of all;
Feel that they are so important to the survival of a regiment that they can threaten to quit/transfer/CT if they don't get a class B or a cool course/tasking.
Someone warned me about this before. 
I never noticed it when I got home until I started seeing other guys coming home on later tours and it's brutal. I won't get into many examples here but a short one. One fellow back from tour had a very noticeable attitude problem. He went from saying "**ck you and this regiment I'm outta here in 2 weeks suckers" to "Master Corporal my CT fell througha nd I'm out of money PLEASE please I need any kinda work you have for me, please" about a month later.
Be careful what you say because it may bite you in the ass.

I'm even seeing guys now who are just on work up training showing up at the unit walking around like they own the place cause of riding around in a LAV or doing a PWT4. Or this isn't how we do it in battalion bla bla.
Don't be that guy because you look like a douche bag.
Enough said on that.

Another big issue I've seen is soldiers who come home and not been through hell and back but have had 'boring tours'.
Nothing happened. No firefights, IEDs, casevacs, mortar attacks. They never fired their weapon.
It happens. The was a whole RCR platoon who that happened to.
What happens though is a young reservist comes home and everyone asks how was it, how many firefights did you get in, how many bodies did you see.
There is a lot of pressure for you young soldiers to talk about how bad it was in the shit, whether you actually were or not. How many guys the killed.
So in the face of this pressure, guys embellish stories.  Some add a few extra twists and turns to make a story sound more fantastic and others downright lie and make up entire tales.
At first you might think a few white lies go unnoticed (sometimes they do) but people never stop there. It snowballs.
Trust me. Anyone who isn't a star struck private will start to see through your stories pretty fast.  Sooner or later someone is going to call you on your tall tale and your going to look like an idiot. I still bump into a guy I worked with in 2001 and the first thing I think of was how embarrassed he looked when he got called on his fake bosnian war stories.  That shit sticks with you a long time.

I called someone showing of his "tour video" this summer from Afghanistan.  It was a hell of a bad ass video with lots of IEDs and firefights. Only thing is none of them involved him. I'd seen the clips elsewhere-he never left base let alone rolled around in a LAV.

Don't make stuff up because someone is bound to call you on it and you're going to look like the biggest idiot and I guarantee it will follow you around. We're a small army.


When you get home from tour take a month off then decide what to do next.
Join the regs or stay in the reserves and get a full time job or apply to school.

Just whatever you do don't walk around with a chip on your shoulder (especially before you even go)

 

[noneck]

This has to be one of the most constructive threads I have read on this site! It follows a close second to the thread by Boondock Saint a few years ago in the Infantry Thread.

Everything he says for both the new PRes Infanteer off of his DP1, to the newly returned guy from Tour (I was that guy, circa 1993) is bang on!

It is hard to capture all of those points succinctly, nowever you managed to do it! This should be mandatory reading for all!

Noneck

 

[Jarnhamar]

I was going to tack this on to the thread about being a teacher if you're NES but the thread was locked so I'll throw it here.

Regarding going NES and getting kicked out. For Pete's sake, just quit.

I just saw paperwork today for a young soldier who is turning 20 this year. He stopped working at the unit, didn't return any phone calls or attempts to contact him.  He's being released.  He's 19, fresh out of high school and owes the government $5600 for all the gear he was too lazy to return.  Crazy.

 

[3VP Highlander]

Excellent thread

 

[FlyingDutchman]

SNIP

and FFS, your army kit is not your personal paintball or airsoft gear.

SNIP

I am a civvie, but is it safe for me to assume using that for paintball is a major no no?  If so I may have to contact the local reserves (after making sure it is infact cadpat and not milspex or cpgear.)

 

[Ontariomario1]

What a great help. I kinda knew i wasn't going t get a tasking or class B work. Disheartening to see how few new guys stick with it. Oh well, more work for me.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I just saw paperwork today for a young soldier who is turning 20 this year. He stopped working at the unit, didn't return any phone calls or attempts to contact him.  He's being released.  He's 19, fresh out of high school and owes the government $5600 for all the gear he was too lazy to return.  Crazy.

That and he can pretty well forget working for any type of government organization ever again. He won't get hired because of his military record.

 

[Mr.Neville]

Thanks for all the great advice, this is fantastic!  I'm just going through the application process for infantry Reserves at the moment, but I'll keep these rules of thumb in mind if I make it in.