I am interested in a career as an officer, but I'd like to know if I'd have a good opportunity, say in 5 years down the line of BOT, to complete an MA or a PhD? I'm not talking about staff college or doing an MBA, but actually attending a humanities graduate school. Would I be able to take a year off to do an MA? Is the opportunity there in a military career to take a PhD?
Higher Education in a Military Career
- Thread starter Matty B.
- Start date
Most officer occupations have post grad positions. After you are in for awhile (usually after your first tour), you have to apply and be sponsored by a unit with the PG position. Your PG might not be in the excat field you want. Some PGs move on towards a PhD in the military. Some of these folks teach in RMC, others work in R&D, and some are back operational. We have need for academics as well as warriors.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
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Every year around the end of July, DGMC will put out a list of possible PG studies individuals can apply for. Most of the PGs are only open to specific trades.
The application process requires you be accepted both by the military (for the funding) and by the approved educational institute (for the seat), which can be a nightmare to try and coordinate. Some of the PGs are at RMC, some at Canadian civvie U's...some US, etc. If you think that you stand a good chance to get the funding, don't wait to apply for the PG. I did, and almost missed the application deadline for the program I'm in at U of T (MHSc Industrial Hygiene and Occupational Health).
If you get accepted, the CF will cover all tuition fees, student fees and books. Pretty much the only thing you have to cover is a parking pass or a bus pass. You'll end up owing a few years back to the CF, but if you're like myself and have 15 more years until a pension...really, you can't lose.
The application process requires you be accepted both by the military (for the funding) and by the approved educational institute (for the seat), which can be a nightmare to try and coordinate. Some of the PGs are at RMC, some at Canadian civvie U's...some US, etc. If you think that you stand a good chance to get the funding, don't wait to apply for the PG. I did, and almost missed the application deadline for the program I'm in at U of T (MHSc Industrial Hygiene and Occupational Health).
If you get accepted, the CF will cover all tuition fees, student fees and books. Pretty much the only thing you have to cover is a parking pass or a bus pass. You'll end up owing a few years back to the CF, but if you're like myself and have 15 more years until a pension...really, you can't lose.
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Dirt Digger said:
Is it related in any way to the Master (or Graduate) degree the CF are offering after 9 years in when on DEO program?
Matty: for your info, Direct Entry Officer program offers the candidate (which has an Undergraduate degree) a tuition-free Master degree. Don't remember where it's written, but it's in the official papers somewhere.
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MdB said:
Not mine at least. I'm a DEO, but this is the first I've heard about the program you've mentioned. In the Bioscience trade, we pretty much have two dedicated PGs that we apply for (Hygiene or Human Factors).
Gunner
Army.ca Veteran
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Matty, there are several programs that you can apply for to take graduate and post graduate studies. I took my MA through Royal "Militay" College 
on a part time basis. RMC contracts out to local professors within the large garrison locations.
Pursuing higher education is a very worthy of a current and/or future officer. I will caution you to set realistic goals for yourself as you should be focusing on learning your chosen career during your first five years. Depending on your classification, you may find yourself with very little free time to pursure a graduate degree.
You may wish to check out the Canadian Defence Academy website and explore some of your options.
http://www.cda-acd.forces.gc.ca/index/engraph/home_e.asp
on a part time basis. RMC contracts out to local professors within the large garrison locations. Pursuing higher education is a very worthy of a current and/or future officer. I will caution you to set realistic goals for yourself as you should be focusing on learning your chosen career during your first five years. Depending on your classification, you may find yourself with very little free time to pursure a graduate degree.
You may wish to check out the Canadian Defence Academy website and explore some of your options.
http://www.cda-acd.forces.gc.ca/index/engraph/home_e.asp
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TCBF said:
Your point?
Can you define the threat, and explain exactly what, besides your personal comfort zone, is being affected?
Can you contrast it to those who refuse to step out of the past to give a frame of reference?
Please present your alternative solution.
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Matty: for your info, Direct Entry Officer program offers the candidate (which has an Undergraduate degree) a tuition-free Master degree. Don't remember where it's written, but it's in the official papers somewhere.
Yes when you find it let me know so I can start recruiting for it.
Or perhaps you are referring to Medical Officer Training Plan or Dental Officer Training Plan? ;D
Yes when you find it let me know so I can start recruiting for it.
Or perhaps you are referring to Medical Officer Training Plan or Dental Officer Training Plan? ;D
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TCBF said:
Interesting point of view. Consider this: every (EVERY) US Army or Marine officer fighting right now in Iraq or in Afghanistan has a degree. Some have two, and almost all General officers have post grad. Most did not get their degree from a military academy, but instead through a civilian university. How does having a degree make them worse officers? A degree (by itself) mght not make them better officers (but just in case, see below), but how does it make them worse?
Does a degree make a better officer? I never believed that when I commissioned in 1983: I was an OCTP guy, with no degree, as were many of my peers. Then, times changed and in 2000-2001 I completed a degree through the Army. When I was serving in Afghanistan last year, my place of duty was the HQ of US Combined Joint Task Force 76, the operational-level HQ for US forces in that country. One day I sat down with the Chief of Staff, a very long-serving and tough old Infantry Colonel. I asked him if he thought having a degree made any difference. What he said was basically this: up to abut Coy Comd, it probably doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of difference. But, after that, in command at battalion and above, in staff positions, in teaching positions at military educational establishments, in multi-national forces and HQs, in working with non-military agencies, and in designing campaigns, strategy or policy, he stated that the educational experience was invaluable not because of the "stuff" that was taught in university, but rather in the broadening and deepening of the minding and the training of its processes and habits. I still agree with this.
The fact that we have undoubtedly produced incompetent officers who have degrees is IMHO merely a correlation, rather than cause and effect. I would be much more inclined to lay the blame on a system that fail to weed out weak characters, incompetents and otherwise generally unsuited types, or that automatically bestows HM commission on someone just because they have a degree. There, in my view, lie the real problems.
Cheers
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To be fair, I would think the type of degree plays a role, and also the time and method it is obtained. For younger officers, obviously CompSci and Eng are much more desirable to the CF than Religious Studies or Sociology [of any kind.]. Even with regards to law, there are several former infantry and armoured officers currently emerging from the MLOTP- a much more palatable development for the CF than some 27 year old idealist spewing the crap they teach at Osgoode Hall or the UoT.
Perhaps a system whereby one serves a period of time [5-6 years] in the NCM ranks and then is given a posting of sufficient duration to obtain a general degree by attending and experiencing campus life. This would likely produce a much more rounded officer candidate. Of course, this would be completely infeasible in some MOC's, but it may work for others.
Assuming entry into the CF at 19 or 20 years of age, a young person could concieveably have served 10 years by the age of 30, served at least a couple of tours overseas, attained a junior leadership position as an NCM, graduated with a university degree and most importantly will have matured immensely through their experience. To me, this is a pretty good candidate for officer training. 10-12 years later, an opportunity for some level of post grad could be made available.
A 30 year old 2lt with that background might be more valuable than a 23 year old with no experience whatsoever.
Perhaps a system whereby one serves a period of time [5-6 years] in the NCM ranks and then is given a posting of sufficient duration to obtain a general degree by attending and experiencing campus life. This would likely produce a much more rounded officer candidate. Of course, this would be completely infeasible in some MOC's, but it may work for others.
Assuming entry into the CF at 19 or 20 years of age, a young person could concieveably have served 10 years by the age of 30, served at least a couple of tours overseas, attained a junior leadership position as an NCM, graduated with a university degree and most importantly will have matured immensely through their experience. To me, this is a pretty good candidate for officer training. 10-12 years later, an opportunity for some level of post grad could be made available.
A 30 year old 2lt with that background might be more valuable than a 23 year old with no experience whatsoever.
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Whiskey: based on my own experience, I agree with almost everything you have said. As has been stated before : "Education is wasted on the young". I certainly got way, way more out of my university education when I was in my 40s than the first time I tried it at age 19 (unsuccessfully...).
The only point I disagree with you on is the demeaning of Sociology (or other relevant Arts/Humanities, for that matter). There is strong debate that an officer today, especially a Combat Arms officer who aspires to higher leadership or staff positions, would do well to have a solid grounding in the "people studies". Psychology, History, Law, Criminology, Sociology and Political Studies all have something to offer in this area.
Cheers.
The only point I disagree with you on is the demeaning of Sociology (or other relevant Arts/Humanities, for that matter). There is strong debate that an officer today, especially a Combat Arms officer who aspires to higher leadership or staff positions, would do well to have a solid grounding in the "people studies". Psychology, History, Law, Criminology, Sociology and Political Studies all have something to offer in this area.
Cheers.
V
visitor
Guest
Re: education. My kids have all gotten their BAs or BSs degrees from good universities. Some in "useless" subjects. I am immensely proud of them when we sit around the kitchen table and they can discuss current events intelligently. They can make cogent arguments based on evidence. They can evaluate what they hear and read critically. They have tolerance for those that think differently than they do, but nevertheless can critique ideas. I contrast them with some of their peers that fall for scams, hold stereotypes uncritically, do not seek out different points of view with which to challenge their own. Self made men do not necessarily come to these qualities on their own. Some do. Some get through their education without these strengths. But a good education should enable students to come away with these qualities, quite apart from job skills or heads stuffed with facts.
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visitor said:
Visitor: This is it, exactly. To me what you have explained are the greatest and truest advantages of post secondary education. In particular, the abilities to think critically, to always look for a better source of info, and to question "conventional wisdom" are important. Now, to be honest, not everybody with a degree has those abilities, and of course not everybody lacking a degree lacks those abilities either. But, I think it is reasonable to assume that education is likely to encourage them, while an environment without education is more likely to stifle them.
Cheers
If I entered the Army as a 23 year-old 2Lt., and got chewed out like that for being too young and inexperienced, then I would make one bad officer, and generally hate my job. On the other hand, if my senior officers and NCO's showed me how to be a good officer, I'd learn quickly.
If the minimum age for a 2Lt. was 30, then you're going to have to promote a lot of officers up the chain of command pretty fast (early retirement age). I know some get promoted fast, but if everyone did, you'd get a lot of inexperienced generals (think military sociology ???).
Many different entry plans such as the DEO, ROTP and pulling officers from the ranks create a diverse balance. It's not about choosing black or white, but finding the best solution. Anyway, it's great to see what people think of DEO's and university degrees. I appreciate it!
If the minimum age for a 2Lt. was 30, then you're going to have to promote a lot of officers up the chain of command pretty fast (early retirement age). I know some get promoted fast, but if everyone did, you'd get a lot of inexperienced generals (think military sociology ???).
Many different entry plans such as the DEO, ROTP and pulling officers from the ranks create a diverse balance. It's not about choosing black or white, but finding the best solution. Anyway, it's great to see what people think of DEO's and university degrees. I appreciate it!
