Garvin's rant about the AIDS conference

[vonGarvin]

OK, I'm fairly confident that most North Americans have heard of AIDS.  Keep the awareness days/ribbons going.  Keep looking for a cure.  Fine, and I think that it's noteworthy that so many people are devoting their lives to this effort.  One point: what was up with all those people criticising the wrong people?  How can AIDS be priority number one when simple diseases like Malaria kill more children in Africa than AIDS?
The other thing protested as part of the AIDS conference was how we MUST keep the "free drug use" clinic open in Vancouver, lest these people die.  Hundreds could die!  For shame!  I say: Let them.  Arrest them.  Cure them.  Get them off the streets.  Offer all the help you can to get them to STOP using needle drugs at a cost of hundreds a day.  As one worker there was quoted on the radio, they don't try to get people to stop because they don't want to judge them!  Well, I'll judge them: guilty!  Now, I do NOT recommend firing squad, instead I recommend physical and psychological treatment to get them off smack and into the payroll of some job.  Self esteem is what they need, not a clean needle.  And if they refuse the help?  Call it Darwinism?  I don't know.  But I do not wish to pay one more red cent of MY money so that some junkie can shoot up!  Certainly not when there are bonifide people out there who could use my red cent in more productive ways: like feeding their children or paying for education.

OK, that's enough of me. 
Peace!
 

 

[aluc]

It is undoubtedly a noteworthy cause, and I applaud the effort many of the people involved have given to AIDS research and treatment, yet......for the most part , this conference (or, what I saw on the news at least)  appeared to be a PM Harper bashing fest. All the celebreties and self righteous lefties in attendance  were salivating at the chance to bash the PM in front of the hordes of media covering the conference. After a while, I no longer wanted to read or watch anything to do with it.

 

[vonGarvin]

Yes.  Naturally, PM Harper is the cause of AIDS.  And he is personally preventing a cure from being found.  I wonder how much effort is put on information/education and prevention vice gadgets to allow those who enjoy dangerous practices from keep on doing them?  Just criticise and criticise more.  Naturally the lefties feel that AIDS is more important than anything, so Harper not showing up is a slap in the face to all things left, and more proof that Harper eats Babies (The other other white meat!)

 

[ab9321]

I was in Toronto during the AIDS conference on other business, but it's interesting to see how many of the attendees were staying at the same high-priced hotel I was in near the convention centre. ;D

 

[48thOfficer]

  Hundreds could die!  For shame!  I say: Let them.  Arrest them.  Cure them.  Get them off the streets.  Offer all the help you can to get them to STOP using needle drugs at a cost of hundreds a day.  As one worker there was quoted on the radio, they don't try to get people to stop because they don't want to judge them!  Well, I'll judge them: guilty!  Now, I do NOT recommend firing squad, instead I recommend physical and psychological treatment to get them off smack and into the payroll of some job.  Self esteem is what they need, not a clean needle. And if they refuse the help?  Call it Darwinism?  I don't know.  But I do not wish to pay one more red cent of MY money so that some junkie can shoot up!  Certainly not when there are bonifide people out there who could use my red cent in more productive ways: like feeding their children or paying for education.
 

I agree that some more effort is in order on the part of social workers to change people's lifestyles instead of worrying too much about being "judgemental". While I have never been addicted to heroin myself, I imagine it is a tad more difficult than, say, trying to cut down on TV viewing time/ Xbox playing in favour of finding a job. I think that the nature of the addiction is such that anyone that is successful in the end probably had to try three, four, or more times unsucessfully before they kicked the habit. If we are truly serious about fighting AIDS, I think that we need to look past our resentment of those who are less fortunate than us and look at the big picture. Yes, these people are a drain on our tax dollars, yes, they are a negative influence on the fabric of society. But I think, living in a democratic society, it is a bit of a stretch to deny someone the status of a "bona fide" human being, (the Charter of Rights and Freedoms notwithstanding) to the point of denying them the means to prevent a fatal disease. And all because they were most likely born into a home that destroyed a large part of their chance of a normal life. And even if you accept the "Darwinistic" consequence of these peoples weakness, is this still acceptable if the person say, rapes an innocent citizen, or infects a paramedic or a police officer?

 

[ab9321]

Mantle,

Makes me want to sympathize with Al-Qaeda, poor guys .....

 

[GAP]

Politically, this will not hurt Harper. The contingent that focused on the Aids Conference were never going to vote conservative, even if a pig flew over their Cooko  nest. As has been said, help those that choose to help themselves, and and those who acquired it through no fault of their own, the others, it's a lifestyle choice, they chose it, now live it.

 

[48thOfficer]

Mantle,

Makes me want to sympathize with Al-Qaeda, poor guys .....

Even though I beleive that, like heroin addicts, Al-Qaeda terrorists may have become what they are through circumstance, there comes a point where they have to be stopped. I.E, disarmed, or killed. If this reality bothered me I wouldn't have joined the army, nevermind the combat arms. This point of view dosent change my attitude to the great work that our guys are doing over there. It's just looking at life from whats called in philosophy a "deterministic" point of view.

 

[manhole]

right on, VG.  My wife and I were discussing this in exactly the same way the other day after watching a newscast.  The media seems to love covering this crap.
Ubique

 

[camochick]

I agree with safe injection sites for the simple fact that it keeps the needles out of the parks and off my lawn (Won't stop the dirty condoms but thats a whole other issue). We can't stop all the addicts, the least we can do is protect ourselves from potentially contracting AIDS  (not to mention kids with curious hands and bare feet). Perhaps this way of thinking comes from living in a neighborhood where seeing someone smoke meth in a back alley isnt a big deal and everyday a new hooker takes over my street corner.  >

 

[vonGarvin]

I agree with safe injection sites for the simple fact that it keeps the needles out of the parks and off my lawn (Won't stop the dirty condoms but thats a whole other issue). We can't stop all the addicts, the least we can do is protect ourselves from potentially contracting AIDS  (not to mention kids with curious hands and bare feet). Perhaps this way of thinking comes from living in a neighborhood where seeing someone smoke meth in a back alley isnt a big deal and everyday a new hooker takes over my street corner.  >

While I understand that about needles out of the parks, but this is a band-aid solution to a bigger problem.  Sure, they get clean needles, but what about the 'other' stuff they do, such as beg, borrow and steal in order to get a few hundred a day for smack?  Call in Operation "Clean Sweep", and force them into rehab?  I don't know.  You can lead them to water and all that, but let's face it: the use of certain drugs is illegal.  Probably for good reason.  To me, this is akin to handing out rubbers to rapists in order to prevent the spread of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases.  Sure, it prevents the spread of a disease, but what about the criminal element to the act?

 

[camochick]

Garvin, I don't think it's a solution but honestly how realistic is it to think that all heroin users will become clean by forcing them into rehab. So until we find a way to conquer heroin addiction and make it actually work I would much prefer not stepping on a syringe.

 

[paracowboy]

easy: every ounce that is confiscated gets poisoned and re-sold on the streets. As they start dropping dead, the smart ones will quit, the stupid ones will keep using, and either way the market dries up. Dealers get rounded up and executed in the street - no trial, summary execution immediately upon discovery of possession. All profits from the poisoned drugs go to rehab and social programs aimed at removing the initial sources of drug abuse.

'Course, we have to become monsters to make it work, but it IS probably the most viable plan to truly end the problem.

 

[Danjanou]

works for me Cowboy

 

[Edward Campbell]

I have long favoured a return to corporal punishment for certain classes of crime – as an alternative to (some of) a prison sentence.  Drug trafficking seems to me to be ideally suited to corporal punishment: the punishments need to be exemplary and 50 lashes, administered in public in the miscreant’s home neighbourhood – maybe near a middle school, might just do that.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Public execution of drug dealers and vigorous pursuit of same would go a long way toward slowing the trade down.  "You say you want to sell poison to kids?  You say you want to sentence them to a life of misery?  Hangman, do your duty...."

 

[HDE]

I had occassion recently to speak to a woman who takes her boyfriend's mother for her methadone treatment; apparently she's been doing it for 15 years :  How long should it actually take to "get clean" ???

 

[Centurian1985]

'Course, we have to become monsters to make it work, but it IS probably the most viable plan to truly end the problem.

That is exactly it - there are solutions, but they are so horrific to the general public that anyone advocating such extreme measuers would be vilified. After all, every junkie is someone's son / daughter / mother / father / brother / sister. 

What annoys me is that those who cry the loudest seem to be pretty well fleshed out when it come to personal finances.  Its okay to demand public money to pay for the codling and enabling of junkies, and encouraging them to live in our public parks and breaking into the houses of people in the poorer parts of town... but god forbid that they donate their own money to the cause, and its highly unlikely they would tolerate a junkie crashing for the night on their manicured security-patrolled lawn in the upper heights area. 

 

[vonGarvin]

I had occassion recently to speak to a woman who takes her boyfriend's mother for her methadone treatment; apparently she's been doing it for 15 years :  How long should it actually take to "get clean" ???

I don't know.  Ask Keith Richards!

 

[Fyuri]

I tried pouring tequila on a broken toe once... It didn't help too much though.