FSF Sea Fighter
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Damn... Seems like a relatively decent replacement for the MCDV's... The module packets sound fairly interchangable as well. At $50 a pop, they're also about $20 mil less per... Given the small(ish) size, we could even do the (shudder) home grown solution, and build them relatively inexpensively domestically... (Yeah, I'm still new, so pipe dreams still loom large in my reality) 
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Torlyn said:Damn... Seems like a relatively decent replacement for the MCDV's... The module packets sound fairly interchangable as well. At $50 a pop, they're also about $20 mil less per... Given the small(ish) size, we could even do the (shudder) home grown solution, and build them relatively inexpensively domestically... (Yeah, I'm still new, so pipe dreams still loom large in my reality)
T
BUT THEY UGLY!!! :-\
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The go fast, they are somewhat cheap..... Why don't we buy more off the shelf products?
Seriously we invest so much time and money into Canadian programs for a military that can't afford to be wasting any money. I disagree with our shipbuilding policy, although the Aussies built their Anzacs and aren't they based off a MEKO off the shelf design?
There are navies out there running frigates that have all the firepower we have but are doing it with a much smaller crew, it drives me nuts. Check out the Singapore Navy's RSS Formidable.
Seriously we invest so much time and money into Canadian programs for a military that can't afford to be wasting any money. I disagree with our shipbuilding policy, although the Aussies built their Anzacs and aren't they based off a MEKO off the shelf design?
There are navies out there running frigates that have all the firepower we have but are doing it with a much smaller crew, it drives me nuts. Check out the Singapore Navy's RSS Formidable.
Sub_Guy said:
The Australian (and New Zealand) Anzac Class Frigates are of a modified MEKO-200 (German) design, built in Australia. Interestingly enough, Australia built 2 of their 6 Adelaide class (US Oliver Hazard Perry class) frigates in Australia as well (HMAS Melbourne, and HMAS Newcastle).
On another note -- Australia is aquiring some new destroyers, possibly a variant of the American Arleigh Burke. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_air_warfare_destroyer
I agree with the above statement, why don't we buy more off the shelf, proven platforms? Seems to make the most sense. Maybe thats why?
-Ryan
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who980 said:
It's a political decision. When we purchase new ships, we have to try and seek a "made in Canada" solution, regardless of the cost. The Iltis are one of the best examples of this. We could have bought them off the shelf from Germany for 30k a pop, but instead we had them made in Canada for 80k a pop... It doesn't make military sense, but the government does it in order to appease industry. Such is the price of being in the military in Canada, I suppose.
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Torlyn said:
This sort of "made in Canada" type thinking is dangerous. Yes its good for getting votes from special interest groups etc, in the long run I beleive this is not always the best solution. You're not always going to come out with the best product.
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who980 said:
I defy you to find even ONE occasion in which the "made in Canada" solution worked out for the better (better being the best piece of kit available, for a fair price)
I have a few bad ones;
LSVW
Iltis
2004 Tac Vest
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Beartrap hauldown system on Destroyers/Frigates. We are the world standard/experts.
But I generally agree with your premise, having been saddled, at various times, with Itises and LSVWs...
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SeaKingTacco said:
LAV III......made in London by General Motors....I think most infanteers are pretty happy with it...specially the guys in AStan. Generally I agree with you too though...we need to get the best not just what is made here.
Personally I drive Toyotas and have a Suzuki motorcycle...there is a reason I don't buy North American
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IN HOC SIGNO said:
The LAV is not a Canadian design, nor was it made for the Canadian Army. It was designed by the US for use by the US, and happens to be built in Canada due to favorable market conditions.
I would say that the LAV is a good example of why we should buy nearly everything off the shelf.
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Wasn't there something in the media last year about our military looking to buy off the shelf? For already proven products, if it has been produced and proven effective then why waste time and money researching the same thing just to Canadianize it?
One other item I can think that worked well is CADPAT, the US Marines stole it and called it MARPAT so it must have been good.
Back in the day though we had some great innovations.
1. The 280's when they were first produced they were top notch vessels.
2. HMCS Bras Dor another great design
3. That aircraft.........we all know about that aircraft.........
4. CPF's these ships are good but were expensive. They never sold the design to any other countries (I don't know if it was rumour or not but I heard they were shopped around, most nations who were looking went with the LaFyette design)
5. Our Anti submarine equipment
6. Tim Hortons armoured delivery vehicles (to get coffee to the boys outside the wire)
We can't afford to be wasting time and money on "Made in Canada" programs. I would much rather sail on a ship that was produced by a shipyard that has experience, not from a shipyard that was dusted off to produce new boats.
One other item I can think that worked well is CADPAT, the US Marines stole it and called it MARPAT so it must have been good.
Back in the day though we had some great innovations.
1. The 280's when they were first produced they were top notch vessels.
2. HMCS Bras Dor another great design
3. That aircraft.........we all know about that aircraft.........
4. CPF's these ships are good but were expensive. They never sold the design to any other countries (I don't know if it was rumour or not but I heard they were shopped around, most nations who were looking went with the LaFyette design)
5. Our Anti submarine equipment
6. Tim Hortons armoured delivery vehicles (to get coffee to the boys outside the wire)
We can't afford to be wasting time and money on "Made in Canada" programs. I would much rather sail on a ship that was produced by a shipyard that has experience, not from a shipyard that was dusted off to produce new boats.
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GO!!! said:
The LAV III is actually a distant cousin of the Swiss Mowag Piranha. First user was of course, the Swiss Army, and Swiss built examples were exported to Chile, Sweden, Denmark, Ireland and Spain. General Dynamics licensed the design for production in North America. The current LAV III, for example, is also called the Piranha III.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/piranha/
Mowag (now part of GDLS) also developed an updated version of the LAV III in 2001, called the Piranha IV. It features upgraded anti-mine protection, better armour, a more powerful powerpack, hydropneumatic suspension, ABS and a traction control system. BAE and Komatsu in Japan have been given licenses for production of this updated model.
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Back to the original topic these would be an ideal OPV with lots of multi mission potential.
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