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forces.gc.ca/www.dnd.ca

Meridian

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I apologize if this has been discussed somewhere before.. but does anyone know why as compared to every other Govnt website, the DND/Forces website is almost always excessively slow?

I often get connect timeouts/refusals, or it is ridiculously slow....  and do not even get me started on the Combat Camera page (esp. the video portion!)

Cheers.... :)
 
Hmm.. weird.. Must be something local, I have the issue both here at work (Govnt network) and at home (Rogers)...

*shrug*
 
Could be high traffic, or low bandwith in your area, or you are located far away form the servers. I personally dont have a problem, and I am on rogers.
 
Could be, but id expect the servers to be somewhere in Ottawa.. or close.. given that my office is about 5k from NDHQ..... I live even closer.

and I get great throughput to other sites all over the web. *shrug*
 
I live in Ottawa and connect to the internet from home via a DSL line to my ISP, Magma (www.magma.ca). I have excellent connectivity to the dnd site. For instance, viewing a movie, like Carl Gustav, from http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/3_2.asp# the video starts almost instantaneously.

To see why this is the case we need to take a closer look at the connection between my computer and the dnd computer.

First a little background (simple version, but good enough for our current purpose):
- in order to view data stored on the dnd computer, my computer sends it a request and it sends my computer a response (like the video)
- all this data moving both ways is broken into nicely sized chucks called packets
- my computer is not connected directly to the dnd computer, there many computers, called servers, in between.
- the series of computers that processes a data packet between the two computers is called a route, in a route these servers are often referred to as nodes or hops

To determine the route between my computer and the dnd computer we use a trace route program like:
http://www.visualiptrace.com/index.html        (I'm currently using the free 15 day trial)

Here are the results:

===================================================
=== VisualRoute report on 10-Dec-04 10:35:15 PM ===
===================================================

Report for www.army.forces.gc.ca [131.137.250.62]

Analysis: IP packets are being lost past network  "Bell Advanced Communications Inc. BELLADVCOM-2BLK"  at hop 11. VisualRoute cannot determine the next network at hop 12. Node 206.108.111.242 at hop 11 in network  "Bell Advanced Communications Inc. BELLADVCOM-2BLK"  reports "The destination network is unreachable".

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Hop | %Loss | IP Address      | Node Name                                  | ms | Graph      | Network                                          |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 0  |      | xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx    | vic                              |    |            | (private use)                                    |
| 1  |      | xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx      | -                                          | 0  | x          | (private use)                                    |
| 2  |      | xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx    | -                                          | 0  | x          | (private use)                                    |
| 3  |      | xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx    | -                                          | 6  | x          | Magma Communications Ltd. MAGMA-BLK3              |
| 4  |      | 64.26.173.98    | -                                          | 7  | x-        | Magma Communications Ltd. MAGMA-BLK3              |
| 5  |      | 206.191.0.97    | -                                          | 7  | x          | Magma Communications Ltd. MAGMA-BLK              |
| 6  |      | 209.217.64.38  | border1-faste2-0.magma.ca                  | 8  | x-        | Magma Communications Ltd. MAGMA-BLK2              |
| 7  |      | 206.108.111.149 | dis10-ottawa23-atm8-1-101.in.bellnexxia.net | 11 | x-        | Bell Advanced Communications Inc. BELLADVCOM-2BLK |
| 8  |      | 206.108.99.125  | core2-ottawa23-pos3-0.in.bellnexxia.net    | 9  | x          | Bell Advanced Communications Inc. BELLADVCOM-2BLK |
| 9  |      | 206.108.99.134  | ottcorr02-pos0-1-0.in.bellnexxia.net        | 38 | -x-------- | Bell Advanced Communications Inc. BELLADVCOM-2BLK |
| 10  |      | 206.108.111.238 | -                                          | 10 | x          | Bell Advanced Communications Inc. BELLADVCOM-2BLK |
| 11  | 10    | 206.108.111.242 | -                                          |    |            | Bell Advanced Communications Inc. BELLADVCOM-2BLK |
| ... |      |                |                                            |    |            |                                                  |
| ?  |      | 131.137.250.62  | www.army.forces.gc.ca                      |    |            | Defence Research Establishment-Ottawa DRE-LAN3    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roundtrip time to 206.108.111.238, average = 10ms, min = 10ms, max = 13ms -- 10-Dec-04 10:35:15 PM



From the last report line above you can see my roundtrip time to the last accessable Bell server is a very good 10ms.
Other notable parts of the report:
- hop 10 is the last node reported, this is ok, we can just assume that the connection from 10 - ? (www.army.forces.gc.ca) is internal to the dnd/bell setup and quite fast since me and lots of other people on this forum are getting good responses
- the people with slow connections should see problems between their computers and hop 10
- most people will see different routes if they try this since most probably don't use the same public internet access point (even if they have the same ISP)
- note that hop 10 is in Toronto (see the report below) so being 5km from NDHQ really doesn't mean much  :(

What are your options if you have a slow connection? This depends on why it is slow, here are some common reasons and what you can do about them.
- the connection from your computer to your ISP is slow (hops 0 to 4 for me)
    - do you have a network in your home (hops 0 to 2)? is it the problem
    - if you use dial-up switch to high speed
    - if you use high speed see if other people living near you get better service from other providers
    - sometimes your particular connection has a problem. If you are slower than a neighboor with the same service type then report it to your ISP
- the connection from your ISP to servers external to them is slow (hops 4 to 7)
    - report it, especially if the trace route program you use shows a server with a high %loss
- the connection from the external (greater internet) to the ISP of the destination is slow
    - there are none of these hops for me in this particular route, magma goes directly to bell which seems to be dnd's provider
    - depending on who owns the server you may:
        - be able to find an entity to report it to
        - actually get a response, I've had responses in the past from shaw and uunet and AT&T. Generally, if you can give them enough information and you happened to talk to the correct "them"  ;) then after some days (or weeks or months) you may notice the %loss improve or dissappear and/or the route change
- the connection is slow in the destination network (bell/dnd in this case)
    - we know this is not the case here
    - when it is the case, the destination site owner is sometimes quite happy to be informed and will try and fix it, after all you might be a customer and other customers might also be having problems.

It would be interesting to see the results of other peoples trace route attempts.

Happy surfing  :salute:

-------------- Hop 10 details -----------------------------
OrgName:    Bell Advanced Communications Inc.
OrgID:      BAC-14
Address:    #350-181 Bay Street
City:      Toronto
StateProv:  ON
PostalCode: M5J-2T3
Country:    CA

NetRange:  206.108.96.0 - 206.108.111.255
CIDR:      206.108.96.0/20
NetName:    BELLADVCOM-2BLK
NetHandle:  NET-206-108-96-0-1
Parent:    NET-206-0-0-0-0
NetType:    Direct Assignment
NameServer: NS3.BELLGLOBAL.COM
NameServer: NS4.BELLGLOBAL.COM
Comment:   
RegDate:    1995-12-12
Updated:    2003-12-05

TechHandle: EQ-ARIN
TechName:  Quek, Erone
TechPhone:  +1-416-350-1869
TechEmail:  equek@on.bell.ca

OrgTechHandle: EQ-ARIN
OrgTechName:  Quek, Erone
OrgTechPhone:  +1-416-350-1869
OrgTechEmail:  equek@on.bell.ca

# ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2004-12-10 19:10
# Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database.

OrgName:    Bell Advanced Communications Inc.
OrgID:      BAC-14
Address:    #350-181 Bay Street
City:      Toronto
StateProv:  ON
PostalCode: M5J-2T3
Country:    CA
Comment:   
RegDate:    1990-02-15
Updated:    2003-12-05

AdminHandle: JGI15-ARIN
AdminName:  Gilmore, James
AdminPhone:  +1-416-353-2070
AdminEmail:  James.Gilmore@bell.ca

TechHandle: EQ-ARIN
TechName:  Quek, Erone
TechPhone:  +1-416-350-1869
TechEmail:  equek@on.bell.ca

# ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2004-12-10 19:10
# Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database.
--------------------- end hop 10 details ----------------------------------------------
 
Meridian said:
I apologize if this has been discussed somewhere before.. but does anyone know why as compared to every other Govnt website, the DND/Forces website is almost always excessively slow?

I often get connect timeouts/refusals, or it is ridiculously slow....   and do not even get me started on the Combat Camera page (esp. the video portion!)

Cheers.... :)

You may have a virus. Could be the MyDoom virus or it actually sounds like Netsky (if it is indeed a virus). Norton Antivirus 2003 won't pick these up, not sure about 2004, and 2005 will get them. But if you need access to a free virus scanner (its worth the 20 mins it takes to scan) try www.pandasoftware.com or www.trendmicro.com

These viruses are actually worms, make sure to do windows update to prevent them.

If you don't have a virus, spyware/adware may be interfering with your web browser. Google "adaware" and "spybot" get 'em both and run them to clean your PC. (You may already have these, if you do then ignore this suggestion :) )

Also the forces web page is written in flash, which can be slower than conventional web pages, especially if you have a weak video card (usually not a problem for newer computers) or a low amount of RAM. In the lower left hand menu you can turn "Flash Off" by clicking those words, see if that helps you any.
 
All good points, and Im checking the traceroute info.... 

I do work in the IT branch of a government agency, and Im assured we have great connections, and my PC is kept spotless from spyware/virii....  plus I get connect/refused so... prob not so much flash, etc.


I just find it weird that both have issues.. *shrug*.


thanks for the help guys.
my tracert even timed out... for whatever reason its hoppin all over the place (11 hops, including my home router).... rogers bounces me all over the place.

*sigh*
 
Could be an IE problem (im assuming you use IE anyway) did you try a different browser? Firefox is great (mozilla) see if you get the same problems with a different browser.
 
Mozilla at home, IE at work?


It is weird, because it ONLY happens on the dnd.ca site... there must be a blockage somewhere along my path...

 
Well, if the trace route doesn't even complete, there's your problem..   I would say call your ISP and see what they say..   you can even send them the trace route so they see what you mean...

But before that, double-check your DNS info, try other generic DNS servers (I don't have an address with me though)..  Maybe the DNS server is confused and doesn't know where dnd.ca is.. Worth the try..

Cheers

Frank
 
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