Female Engineers

[Springroll]

I am very curious as to how many females are among all of you.

I have Combat Engineer as a first pick, but am i setting ym self up for failure?

I am 27, 5'5 and 165lbs female who can handle her own when she has too  ;D
I was told that I would be what they call a pinner(have no freakin clue what they do...lol)

Now what can I expect, explain in great detail please, when I get in?
Am I gonna be having to scrap it out with guys to prove myself like I had too in cadets(was the only female for 3 out of my 4 years)?
Will I be treated differently because I am a female? Good or bad?
Am I going to fall under different expectations because I am female? Time off for ovulation and mensruation?

Now don't get me wrong, I do not want to be treated any differently than the guys, but if these are going to be almost automatic assumptions because I am female, then I want to be prepared to prove myself.

 

[aesop081]

I am very curious as to how many females are among all of you.

I have Combat Engineer as a first pick, but am i setting ym self up for failure?

I am 27, 5'5 and 165lbs female who can handle her own when she has too   ;D
I was told that I would be what they call a pinner(have no freakin clue what they do...lol)

Now what can I expect, explain in great detail please, when I get in?
Am I gonna be having to scrap it out with guys to prove myself like I had too in cadets(was the only female for 3 out of my 4 years)?
Will I be treated differently because I am a female? Good or bad?
Am I going to fall under different expectations because I am female? Time off for ovulation and mensruation?

Now don't get me wrong, I do not want to be treated any differently than the guys, but if these are going to be almost automatic assumptions because I am female, then I want to be prepared to prove myself.

No you are not setting yourself up for failure.  In my 4 years at CFSME ( as a bridging instructor) i had the oportunity to have several femal students. Some were good, some were bad.  I think the term you are refering to is "pin man", you will get familiar with the meaning when you get to bridging and build MGB ( medium girder bridge) but that will not be your only job.  You are required during the bridging phase to lift ALL parts, female or not, simple as that. A pin man is what we call the person who installs the pins that hold bridge parts together.  As an instructor, i have never treated my students differently but you may encounter certain attitudes amongst other students, then again, maybe not.  One thing i can tell you is that the instructor there conduct themselves professionaly at all times and will not make it harder for you based on gender.  The enphasis is on you to to measure up to the satndards established to pass the course.  The combat engineer DP1 course is a challenging and demanding course that will require effort on your part.  You should not go in to it assuming that you will be treated different.  There will be no different expectations, 400 pound bridge parts weigh the same male or femal and the  test have only one standard.  I remustered to the air force last year but my 11 years as a combat engineer were some of the best of my life and i realy do miss it sometimes.  If you have any questions on specifics , just ask and i'm sure i can help you out.

Cheers

 

[Springroll]

Thank you so much for your reply. I was really hoping that there wasn't going to be any special treatment. I can do almost everything a guy can do(see the "almost"..hehehe ) and only know this because I was treated differently in cadets. I was treated harsher and definitely had the tougher jobs, but never whined about it because it is not in my character.

I know I can handle my own, and probably more than most girls, but I just wasn't 100% sure if I was gonna be treated like an incompetent female or not. I fully expect to be held to the same standards as the guys, or else there is no point in standards, right?

Is there anything you would reccommend when it comes to getting myself ready?? Should I take on some weight lifting? Arse kicking? building things for my kids to climb??

 

[aesop081]

Thank you so much for your reply. I was really hoping that there wasn't going to be any special treatment. I can do almost everything a guy can do(see the "almost"..hehehe ) and only know this because I was treated differently in cadets. I was treated harsher and definitely had the tougher jobs, but never whined about it because it is not in my character.

I know I can handle my own, and probably more than most girls, but I just wasn't 100% sure if I was gonna be treated like an incompetent female or not. I fully expect to be held to the same standards as the guys, or else there is no point in standards, right?

Is there anything you would reccommend when it comes to getting myself ready?? Should I take on some weight lifting? Arse kicking? building things for my kids to climb??

I'm not going to get into a long discussion on standards as its just gonna get nmy blood pressure up for nothing, just rest assured that other than the EXPRESS test, the standard for the DP1 is the same for all students and will be applied the same.

Just keep yourself in overall good shape but pay attention to your upper body strenght.  Building bridges requires you to , a part of a team of 4, lift 400 lbs bridge parts abopve your hear, arms fully extended.  You will do this repetitively for a few hours so stamina is your freind.  I'm a pretty small guy and i still managed just fine.  just do what you can before you get there.  Do not neglect running either as this will for a large part of your morning PT sessions.  Prior to getting to the bridging phase, your course staff will arange PT sessions with the actual bridge parts to get you ready for the lifting/carrying test that kicks-off the bridging pahse.

 

[Springroll]

OK, awesome!!

Thank you  ;D

 

[Chimo]

Congrats on picking the finest trade in the army. I have worked with many females in the troop and squadrons, and as stated before, some are better then others, same as some males are better then others. The biggest distinction is being able to pull your own weight, your work ethic and fitness level. Sounds from  your own height/weight description that this might be an issue for you. If it is, I recommend you start working out like a demon between now and when you hit CFSME.

As far as field hygene, this is a bit of a sticky wicket with many. Many leaders will not, and in my opinion, should not, make any distiction between males and females. Having said that, I have seen Tp WOs arrange special showers for their female Soliders. Menstration is a fact of life, and the Soldiers needs some privacy to deal with the cleanliness issues involved in it. I have seen, the Section leave the tent, so that the female member can get things sorted out. Everyone respected that and didn't put anyone in the limelight of extra showering etc.

Once you hit a Regiment, hook up with some of the female Sappers and find out what sort of SOPs they have developed to deal with menstration.

Good luck on your career.

 

[Springroll]

Thank you for your reply, Chimo.

I am not worried about my height and weight since I am stronger than the average female  ;D
That is why my weight is more than what I should be(150lbs). Even my doctor is amazed considering I don't look like some butch.
I am what you would affectionately call a tomboy...
I can definitely handle my own as far as lifting heavy items and such.

Cleanliness and monthly cycles,one topic nobody ever likes to talk about but I guess I have a bit of an advantage with that. I used to carry baby wipes and a large ziploc bag with me when I was in cadets. They do wonders for keeping clean, and those new Kandoo ones are even better, and biodegradable (I like to camp!). As for guys clearing out of the tent, I am so quick at it, they would never know anyways, so I am not worried. Even my husband has no clue when he is in the bathroom right beside me.  ;D

If anyone were to have an issue with it or the way I do it, then I would just suggest that they come talk to me about it. That si just the way i deal with things.

Thanks so much for your reply though....it is nice to read how some of these thigns are dealt with in the field, and I will definitely hook up with some other females just to pass ideas and such around.

 

[Spr.Earl]

Springroll ,just by your couple of post's I think you'll have no prob.'s
By the sound's of it you already know know what you are getting into.
As Chimo stated " The biggest distinction is being able to pull your own weight, your work ethic and fitness level." but more so being a woman,as you will be under the microscope until such time you are one of the guy's,I know it's not P.C. to make a comment like that but it's a fact of Military life,it happens with men but to a lesser degree.

Good Luck and Welcome to our Family little Sister

UBIQUE

 

[Springroll]

Springroll ,just by your couple of post's I think you'll have no prob.'s
By the sound's of it you already know know what you are getting into.
As Chimo stated " The biggest distinction is being able to pull your own weight, your work ethic and fitness level." but more so being a woman,as you will be under the microscope until such time you are one of the guy's,I know it's not P.C. to make a comment like that but it's a fact of Military life,it happens with men but to a lesser degree.

Good Luck and Welcome to our Family little Sister

UBIQUE

Thanks for the welcome...if we ever meet in person, I'll but the first round    ;D

I have never had any issues being "one of the guys"...I seem to be able to adapt really easily.
You are right about the microscope bit though...I hate to admit it, but I know I am gonna have to work extra hard to be able to prove "my worth" to those that have been in longer....that is just normal.

 

[Gunner98]

As a former Gunner Officer, I crossed paths with many fine female Sappers and Engr Offr.  One of the first female cadets to grad from RMC in the early 1980's was an Engr Offr, I had gone through high school with her.  She managed to become quickly viewed as one of the top Engr offr and is a mother of, I think, 5 kids.  Teresa is all of about 5'3" with her boots on and can be one mean little lady.  I am sure many of the Chimo crowd know of whom I speak and like her or not, she rose quite quickly because of her tenacity, confidence and intelligence. You will have some great role models of both genders to emulate them and remember to always keep a smile on your face, or at least a stiff upper lip.

Good luck, Ubique 

 

[Springroll]

You will have some great role models of both genders to emulate them and remember to always keep a smile on your face, or at least a stiff upper lip.

Good luck, Ubique  

I look forward to meeting them and learning from them..... ;D

 

[Strike]

Springroll,

Here is my little bit of advice from a girl's perspective and, since you've had the experience of being a "minority" in cadets, you'll know what I'm talking about.

I never had any problems with my instructors throughout my (pilot) training.  The only time I had issues with the guys (I was on course with) was when I excelled at something.  Then the guys with a few self-confidence problems started having a few "issues" come to the surface.  My advice is to grin and bear it.  You will have many more course mates there to support you than to bring you down.  Even though they might not always show it in front of you, rest assured they will find other ways to back you up.

As for your weight, well, I'm 5'4" and 160 lbs, have a resting HR of 55 bpm, run regularly, and have a red belt in tae kwon do.  I have no doubts that you can hold your own.  I know I can.  The guys that I spar with will probably agree too.

Good luck.

 

[Spr.Earl]

Springroll you don't have to buy me one just be come a good Sapper thats all, as our the poem goes;

Now the Lord of the realm has glorified the charge of the Light Brigade
And the thin red line of Infantry, when will its glory fade?
There are robust rhymes of the British tar and classics on Musketeers,
But I shall sing till your eardrums ring of the muddy old Engineers.

Now its all very well to fly through the air, or humour a heavy gun,
Or ride in tanks through the ranks of the broken and shattered Hun,
And it's nice to think, when a U-boat sinks, of the glory that outlives years,
But whoever heard a vaunting word for the muddy old Engineers.

Now you must not feel, as you read this rhyme, that a Sappers's a jealous knave,
That he joined the ranks for a vote of thanks, or in search of a hero's grave,
No, your mechanized is alright and your Tommy has darned few peers,
But where in Hell would the lot of them be if it weren't for the Engineers.

Oh, they look like tramps, but they build your ramps and sometimes lead the advance,
And they sweat red blood to bridge the flood, to give you a fighting chance,
But who stays behind when it gets too hot, to blow up the roads in the rear?
Just tell your wife that you owe your life to the muddy old Engineers.

No fancy crest is pinned on his chest, if you read what his hat badge says,
Why â Å“Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Penseâ ? is a queersome sort of phrase,
But their modest claim to immortal fame has probably reached your ears,
The first to arrive and the last to leave are the glorious Engineers.



    After being credited as written by an anonymous author, an email from Shannon Radley , informed us that the verse found in the beginning of â Å“Combat Engineering â “ The History of the 107th Engineering Battalionâ ? by Frederick Stonehouse was in fact written by Shannon's grandfather.
    According to â Å“Customs and Traditions of the CMEâ ? Chapter 3: â Å“The author of this poem has often been indicated as 'Author Unknown,' or 'Anonymous' or, on occasion, Rudyard Kipling.  The attribution to Rudyard Kipling is incorrect and likely an erroneous association with his poem â Å“Sappersâ ? that contains similar tributes to the Military Engineer.  Research has confirmed that the poem was written by Corporal Claude Albert Radley of the 18th Field Company RCE in Canada when he was in England during the period 1941-44â ?.


http://www.107thengineers.org/Bullsheet49/Index.asp#Salute_To_The_Engineers

 

[Pea]

I am also looking at joining as a Combat Engineer, but as a reservist. I have found the advice in this thread very helpful so far!!

As for the size, I am 5'2" and 145 lbs. I will admit that I am a bit overweight right now. I am working at it though. I guess I do have worries that being small, I might have difficulties in this trade. I do, however, really want to be a Combat Engineer. I want to work my butt off and strive to be able to do my part. I find this trade very appealing, and don't want to skim over it just because I will have some difficulty in the beginning. I believe anything worthwhile takes effort. Some more than others.

As for the treatment of females in this trade. I was also a cadet, not too long ago though, so there were a fair amount of females. I understand that Cadets is a totally different situation though. I have dealt with weird treatment from male cadets though. I found I fit into being "one of the guys" quite well. I always did my share if not more, and was a great team member. My only issue, like Strike's, was when I excelled at something. It was as if they were cool with me when I was just like them, but if I did better at something than them, then all of a sudden the only reason I did so well was because "I was a girl and got special treatment" or anyother lame excuse they could come up with.

But, I just ignore it and move on. There are good and bad everywhere. I will just work hard and strive for what I want.

Good luck Springroll!!

 

[Spr.Earl]

Hey Card_11 don't worry about size,you will learn how we use size on bridge builds etc.

We use human power as it's needed,and as long as you are fit and able and can hump you will have no prob's.My biggest bitch as a young Sapper I was fairly strong and ended up on transom party on Baily!!
I'm 6'2'' oh my  back crawling through those panel's and trying to catch the weight of the Timmie's as we passed the transom through.

You youngn's are lucky as you no longer have L.F.B,L.F.R.,A.P.B.,A.P.R.,Baily,Class 60, all's you have now is MGB.and M.F.B. and M.R. for bridgingso don't sweat it as I said give iot you all and become a good Sapper who we can all be proud of.

UBIQUE

 

[Springroll]

Just a heads up....

The recruiting officer called me this morning and said my application is going through now and I am being put on a priority because of my previous experience and because of my selected trade ;D.

If anyone is willing to give me a bit of a crash course in Combat engineering and what they do(not the recruiting office description either) please msg me or add me to your msn.....

Thanks a bunch!!

 

[Spr.Earl]

Sure,lots of coffee and Sapper sangies.

 

[geo]

Harrumph...
my comments on the subject.
There are a lot of good sappers out there (both Female and male) & there are some bad ones there as well.

1. Some of the leaders have difficulty in knowing how to deal with women (vs men)...
(simple - there are no differences... other than that additional piece of underwear) and you should deal with all sappers in the same manner. You don't lower your standards so that "everyone" makes it... and you don't intentionally raise it so that certain specific groups can't make it.

2. Some of the troops will talk badly about the female sappers....
(usually macho types who have demonstrated less talent than the rest) talk is cheap and is often used to distract from one's own shortcomings.

If you want to join the forces - good for you, I like people who know what they want to do.
If you want to become a sapper - good for you (though you gotta be a masochist) - the hours are long, the work is hard AND the challenges never stop coming. In some respect; sappers are masters at teamwork and you can't do that by making differences between the sexes.
We are probably the least flashy of the combat arms trades, (a little scruffy/ worn around the edges & dog tired), but, when all is said and done - where would you be if you didn't have your sapper?

In war, there are never enough sappers

Nuff said

Chimo!

 

[Springroll]

awesome reply!!!

Thank You!!

I have gone on lack of sleep for the last 11 years so that doesn't bug me, I love to get dirty and grimy(worked on my van and hubbys car yesterday and came in stinking of oil and stuff..but I loved every minute of it!), and have no problems with challenges..I welcome them!!

 

[Sapper6]

Springroll,

Good to hear that you are making progress with the Recruiting world, unfortunately, it can be cumbersome despite our CDS' vision to expand by another 5000.

Although I'm biased, I think you have chosen the best MOS in the Army.  You will find that your training (Basic+SQ+BLQ) will be long and drawn out and you will probably be separated from your family.  However, it is all necessary as you will arrive at a Combat Engineer Regiment expected to be ready to deploy.  And with today's current operational tempo, there is no doubt that you will find yourself on an overseas/domestic operational deployment soon after joining your Regiment.

I couldn't help noting that you are married and have children.  My advice is to make sure you have a solid family care plan in place now.  By that I mean, can your family operate while Mom is away for extended periods of time?  For example, can your husband get time off work if one of your children gets seriously ill while you are away on an op deployment?  As compassionate as the system is, it may be extremely difficult for you to come home from overseas for family dilemmas.

Lest I sound sexist, I want to be clear that this advice is for both male and female recruits who join the CF already married/with children.  Unfortunately, my experience shows that this is one area that most new soldiers are not prepared for.

S6