Element selection: is it our choice?

[burdseyeflu]

Good afternoon everyone.

Today I was excited to see that my offer has come through for BMQ for this fall. Though I did notice a change that was made.

When I applied and interviewed for logistics, I was asked by the detatchment cmdr what element I wanted; to which I said air.

I looked at my offer, and it said logistics land. Is this a thing that happens? Is the question raised again once at BMQ or does the CAF put you in whatever element despite asking?

Normally this wouldn't be a problem, but since the long stretch of waiting - all of the research I've been doing has been about the RCAF and it's structure. I just would rather not have my choice undermined by an error or a mis-communication.

Thanks yawl.

 

[MJP]

Your preference is noted but the CAF will choose the final element you get based on CAF needs. You can ask them if you can change before departing on BMQ/BMOQ, no harm in asking.

Post BMQ/BMOQ the Logistics world has a process for Basic Training List (BTL) members to change their element that you can pursue following your training. The link to the policy is below but it is DWAN only so once you are done course and have an account take a look and follow the process.

There is an RCLS policy for changing DEU while on the BTL. Policy

If you are fully trained then CANFORGEN 029/02 applies. I cut the considerations that are made when looking at DEU changes

There are five (5) fundamental requirements and considerations that must be made when considering a DEU change request.
First, whether the change will promote morale and enhance operational focus.
Second, the DEU distribution target for the MOSID in question.
Third, the member s preference for environmental affiliation.
Fourth, the member s past environmental record of employment, continuing employment, and career progression.
Finally, basic training must have been completed, and the member must have served five years beyond the successful completion of MOC training

 

[burdseyeflu]

Your preference is noted but the CAF will choose the final element you get based on CAF needs. You can ask them if you can change before departing on BMQ/BMOQ, no harm in asking.

Post BMQ/BMOQ the Logistics world has a process for Basic Training List (BTL) members to change their element that you can pursue following your training. The link to the policy is below but it is DWAN only so once you are done course and have an account take a look and follow the process.

Ah, thank you very much for this!

Glad to be able to serve at any capacity, but from what I've seen many folk stating here and elsewhere, it is important not to take an offer one might be displeased with in the future.

 

[captloadie]

I would ask the question before signing the offer, and make sure you are happy with the decision to go the Army route. While there is a process to change DEUs, it is becoming more rare at the Junior level to allow Army Logisticians to go Blue at the very beginning of their careers without exceptional circumstances. The current ratios are still out of whack, and in an effort to correct that, fewer Green to Blue or White are being approved (but anyone wanting to go the other way is likely to get approved). The fact that you but Air Force as a preference but were offered an Army position in a good indicator of this.

 

[ModlrMike]

As a "purple" trade, your uniform will have limited impact on where you serve.

 

[burdseyeflu]

As a "purple" trade, your uniform will have limited impact on where you serve.

Where I serve is less the concern. It was more about when asked at my interview what I wanted, I told the detachment commander. Before that, I was researching each branch and honed in. After, I started boning up on history, rank structures - all the things I could reasonably find.

I just hope I'm not penalized for maintaining my choice.

 

[PuckChaser]

If by penalized you mean you decline your offer and go back into the pool to wait for a Log Air spot, then yes you'll be penalized.

 

[MJP]

As a "purple" trade, your uniform will have limited impact on where you serve.

I know OP said BMQ but they are going as a Log O so element matters in terms of initial postings and overall employment

 

[Winds]

There was no change made, your application most likely still says that your preferred element is Air. You are being offered Army though.

As others have stated, there is a "DEU distribution target" for the trade, so a certain percent of people each in the Army, Navy, and Air Force. The Army is the largest proportion as well as the most in need of new personnel.

The offer you received is to be an Army Logistics Officer, which has slightly different training and employment than an Air Force Logistics Officer (in general, Army Logistic Officers have more training and breadth of employment opportunities). The CAF wants to hire an Army Logistics Officer, your option at this point is to accept or refuse the offer. If you refuse the offer, it will go to someone else. I recommend you speak to a Military Career Counsellor (MCC) if you have questions.

 

[burdseyeflu]

There was no change made, your application most likely still says that your preferred element is Air. You are being offered Army though.

As others have stated, there is a "DEU distribution target" for the trade, so a certain percent of people each in the Army, Navy, and Air Force. The Army is the largest proportion as well as the most in need of new personnel.

The offer you received is to be an Army Logistics Officer, which has slightly different training and employment than an Air Force Logistics Officer (in general, Army Logistic Officers have more training and breadth of employment opportunities). The CAF wants to hire an Army Logistics Officer, your option at this point is to accept or refuse the offer. If you refuse the offer, it will go to someone else. I recommend you speak to a Military Career Counsellor (MCC) if you have questions.

Hopefully I get the chance. The person I spoke to said logistics but did not mention land, I only saw this after the phonecall when the email confirmation was sent.

Can't really risk waiting another full or even half a year :/ .

 

[Winds]

Hopefully I get the chance. The person I spoke to said logistics but did not mention land, I only saw this after the phonecall when the email confirmation was sent.

Can't really risk waiting another full or even half a year :/ .

If the offer says "Land", then it is an offer to be in the army.

 

[burdseyeflu]

If the offer says "Land", then it is an offer to be in the army.

Yea, I figured as much.

I suppose what I was really wondering about was this: The offer email stated "Logistics" with no element, I called the recruitment centre to confirm, spoke to the recruiter who sent the email briefly before being handed off to someone else, the someone else read through all the things necessary but did NOT specify element. I of course accepted keeping in mind my choices, and the email sent AFTER I accepted (with all the paperwork etc) THEN went on to specify "Logistics -Land".

So it's not so much that I accepted the job with element, it's that I accepted the job with the element being omitted. After I accepted, the email specified the element. Is that how it's done, or was I supposed to be told my element before accepting?

 

[FSTO]

As a "purple" trade, your uniform will have limited impact on where you serve.

I’ve yet to see an Army/Air Force logistics officer as a HOD in a HMC Ship.

 

[Winds]

Yea, I figured as much.

I suppose what I was really wondering about was this: The offer email stated "Logistics" with no element, I called the recruitment centre to confirm, spoke to the recruiter who sent the email briefly before being handed off to someone else, the someone else read through all the things necessary but did NOT specify element. I of course accepted keeping in mind my choices, and the email sent AFTER I accepted (with all the paperwork etc) THEN went on to specify "Logistics -Land".

So it's not so much that I accepted the job with element, it's that I accepted the job with the element being omitted. After I accepted, the email specified the element. Is that how it's done, or was I supposed to be told my element before accepting?

You can still decline an offer at any point prior to enrolment (swearing the oath/affirmation and signing the Terms of Service).

 

[OldSolduer]

I’ve yet to see an Army/Air Force logistics officer as a HOD in a HMC Ship.

But there are Navy uniforms in battalion QM

 

[FSTO]

But there are Navy uniforms in battalion QM

Is there a Navy Uniform running the Platoon/Company/Battalion/Division CSS Element? (I don't speak Army so what would be the equivalent to a Ship's Head of Department?)

 

[MJP]

Is there a Navy Uniform running the Platoon/Company/Battalion/Division CSS Element? (I don't speak Army so what would be the equivalent to a Ship's Head of Department?)

There are no RCN Quartermasters in CA units which is the rough equivalent.

The Log NCMs however may be any DEU as currently all Log NCM trades are treated as purple throughout their career unlike Log Os who generally matriculate and do developmental positions within their environment.

 

[burdseyeflu]

You can still decline an offer at any point prior to enrolment (swearing the oath/affirmation and signing the Terms of Service).

London recruitment is pretty solid, just popped in and the file, to my relief, wasn't declined or rejected. They apparently can request a change w/o decline

 

[BLK2304]

Hopefully I get the chance. The person I spoke to said logistics but did not mention land, I only saw this after the phonecall when the email confirmation was sent.

Can't really risk waiting another full or even half a year :/ .

My offer says specifically "Army". I asked for, Navy being my last choice (personal preference...).

But...
From my conversations with my MCC and my understanding (sorry if I say something wrong), it is necessary to look at the bigger picture.
Do you want to accede to a higher rank? Do you want to evolve in your trade? Accept a position outside your comfort zone, aka your preferred CAF branch. Otherwise, it is possible to be "Lieutenant" for your next 10-15 (maybe more...) years for only reason the rank assigned for LogO on your HMC ship is "Lieutenant". This is not a fact, only an example, an hypothetical scenario.
I repeat, this is my understanding... My MCC's advice was to look at the bigger picture.

Logistics is similar almost everywhere.

Think like this: we are CAF officers. If CAF needs somebody to cover a position, they will ask you to go there, you can decline the offer and CAF will find somebody else. But, if you are the most competent person for THAT position and CAF needs YOU there, YOU.GO.THERE.
It is not only CAF, all other armies around world are identical.

YOU ARE IN THE ARMY NOW !!!

 

[burdseyeflu]

My offer says specifically "Army". I asked for, Navy being my last choice (personal preference...).

But...
From my conversations with my MCC and my understanding (sorry if I say something wrong), it is necessary to look at the bigger picture.
Do you want to accede to a higher rank? Do you want to evolve in your trade? Accept a position outside your comfort zone, aka your preferred CAF branch. Otherwise, it is possible to be "Lieutenant" for your next 10-15 (maybe more...) years for only reason the rank assigned for LogO on your HMC ship is "Lieutenant". This is not a fact, only an example, an hypothetical scenario.
I repeat, this is my understanding... My MCC's advice was to look at the bigger picture.

Logistics is similar almost everywhere.

Think like this: we are CAF officers. If CAF needs somebody to cover a position, they will ask you to go there, you can decline the offer and CAF will find somebody else. But, if you are the most competent person for THAT position and CAF needs YOU there, YOU.GO.THERE.
It is not only CAF, all other armies around world are identical.

YOU ARE IN THE ARMY NOW !!!

Oh I got it all sorted. Had a recruiter assigned to my file (after my first had transferred) and he appreciated that I "held fast" on my preference.

As I see it, my future career will be a series of following orders that i both agree with, disagree with, am cut out for, or not. As such, I figure to assert myself a bit at the beginning, I can at least get the trajectory right, and trust in the system for the rest.

BMOQ in September!