DND Selling off More Equipment (Let‘s make A Deal!)

[army]

Re: DND Selling off More Equipment Let‘s make A Deal!





Posted by Rob Thompson Broker - AB ret‘d0 from Toronto ON Canada on May 09, 1999 at 00:37:18:


In Reply to: DND Selling off More Equipment posted by JD on May 07, 1999 at 22:25:28:



I hadn‘t seen the article - but doesn‘t it strike anyone a little bit strange that an already underequipped and ill-equipped force would sell any equipment that it needs. particularly in light of its role in ground action in Kosovo? The next question that occurs to me is who in the **** is minding the store anyway? Are the generals out to lunch or have they looked at the situation and decided an extended lunch is required? Where are the voices to speak for the military and what it needs to complete its missions? has anyone explained to politicians that missions can‘t be accomplished with broomsticks that say bang - that real beans and bullets are required? Lots of questions and damn few intelligent answers - perhaps those of you currently serving can shed some light on these anomalies and those who live in Ottawa can shed light on the parlimentary parasites take on military action?

 

[army]

Re: DND Selling off More Equipment Let‘s make A Deal!





Posted by Greg from Abbotsford BC Canada on May 09, 1999 at 04:08:42:


In Reply to: Re: DND Selling off More Equipment Let‘s make A Deal! posted by Rob Thompson on May 09, 1999 at 00:37:18:



Canada‘s selling off it‘s equipment? To who? Museums?
In all seriousness, isn‘t a sad state of affairs when
our army has to sell off equipment so they can stay
operational? I‘m not suggesting a return to Cold War
spending habits, just some reasonable purchases and
funding.

The problem stems from the "private business" mentality
that has been applied to the government. This recent
fad has already caused untold damage to several areas
of the government at all levels. The reason that
"private business" thinking doesn‘t work with things like
the justice system or the armed forces is because they
aren‘t supposed to show a profit. I was discussing this
topic with a buddy of mine and the only feasible method
we came up with to make the armed forces "profitable"
would be to send our armed forces out on looting and
pilaging missions in other peoples countries. Hyperbole
aside, the fact remains that the army isn‘t supposed to
do anything but lose money.

The final problem with our army is the "Good Security
Guard" paradox. This paradox is described as follows:
The good security guard patrols his building fanaticly.
Since he does such a good job, the building is safe and
no problems occur. After six months of doing a good job,
the good security guard is let go by building management.
The reason? There hasn‘t been any reason to have security.
The building management doesn‘t realize that the reason
that there haven‘t been any problems is because they have
had such a good security guard.

What does the above all mean? Our armed forces problem
stems from the fact that they haven‘t had a major failure
that threatened Canadian national security. Coupled with
our exemplary war record, we‘ve become complacent. The
UK had the Battle of Britain. Every European mainland
country remembers both WW2 and the Cold War. The US had
Vietnam. Canada had Somalia, but instead of attempting
to fix the problem, they just simply eliminated the whole
Airborne Regiment. I‘m not excusing the actions of those
involved, but by comparison, if the Airborne was the RCMP,
the actions of a few members of 2Commando and the events following
would be like scrapping the RCMP because a prisoner died in
cells after getting brutalized in a violent arrest. Would
we scrap the RCMP? No, we‘d take the Queen‘s Cowboy/Girls
responsible and nail their hides to the first available
tree. The inevitable arguement goes that the RCMP and the
Army are two completely different organizations and comparing
the standards are impossible. Not as different as you
might think. Both are branches of the federal government
of CanadaWhich begs a side question re: the substantial
pay differences in the two jobs, espec. in the lower ranks.
. Both are military organizations, at least on paper If a
Mountie trys to tell you different, point out the following
two points to him: 1The ROYAL in the RCMP was given in honor
of it‘s combat experiences in the Boer War. 2 During war,
the RCMP becomes part of the Canadian Armed Forces.. If
you attempt the arguement of "Different jobs, different
standards of conduct", why are the lower paid ones held
to the higher standard of conduct? Now, I‘m not trying
to bash the RCMP, just trying to make a point.

Now that I‘ve drifted completely off topic, to get back to
the point. Trying to run our armed forces like a "private
business" is a mistake. Now that we‘ve chopped it down
to the point where we need to start selling off our best
equipment to keep the rest of it running, what‘s next?
Hmmmm...If we send the PPCLI across the border and have
them all sell plasma we could raise enough to meet our
latest budget short-fall!

 

[army]

Re: DND Selling off More Equipment Let‘s make A Deal!





Posted by Bob MvGonigal from Windsor ON Canada on May 09, 1999 at 06:58:01:


In Reply to: Re: DND Selling off More Equipment Let‘s make A Deal! posted by Rob Thompson on May 09, 1999 at 00:37:18:



Gentlemen, one must ask the question, how old is this equipment that is being sold off? When I was getting out of the army in 1966, the 113s were just coming into service. Now let me count the years that they have been around.........is that 33 years already!!!! I sure as **** wouldn‘t want to be riding around in the back of those ancient beasts, especially when they couldn‘t stop a modern day pea shooter round. Lets not get in a flap about that stuff being sold off unless it‘s something that is modern and has the ability to protect against the projectiles of today. My son went to Bosnia and rode around in the 113s and I for one was not happy that our idiotic government would allow that to happen. As for the arty pieces, I haven‘t got a clue as to how old they are. Do some checking gents, then get frustrated if it warrants it. As far as I‘m concerned they are getting rid of equipment that should have been gotten rid of many years ago. Another four cents from the bleachers. Audax Et Celer.

 

[army]

Re: DND Selling off More Equipment Let‘s make A Deal!





Posted by Jules Deschenes from Canada on May 09, 1999 at 18:40:33:


In Reply to: Re: DND Selling off More Equipment Let‘s make A Deal! posted by Greg on May 09, 1999 at 04:08:42:



They didn‘t scrap the RCMP for their dirty tricks and barn burnings!

 

[army]

Re: DND Selling off More Equipment Let‘s make A Deal!





Posted by Greg from Abbotsford BC Canada on May 10, 1999 at 01:38:56:


In Reply to: Re: DND Selling off More Equipment Let‘s make A Deal! posted by Jules Deschenes on May 09, 1999 at 18:40:33:



No, they just split it in half and turned the Security
Service into CSIS. I reasonably sure you soldiers
would be quite upset if the feds had disbanded the
Airborne then created a mirror branch of the Ministry
of Social Services Airborne Regiment. Love from above?
Camo patterns in teal and salmon? Aircraft engines
tuned to hum Barbra Striesand songs?

I‘m not saying that the treatment of our guardian
organizations has been equal or fair. In fact, the next
time one of Her Majesty‘s Cowboys or a member of CSIS
starts being a dink, point out that the RCMP Security
Service and CSIS, being responsible for catching those
who would steal our secrets, have caught exactly 1 foreign
agent, who ran screaming into the RCMP HQ in Ottawa. In
fact, in the early 80‘s, it was revealed that the head of
Counter-Intelligence for the RCMP was working for the
KGB. This was never proved, but he suddenly moved to
Austrailia. After this scandal, a Royal commission, based
on testimony by a former RCMP Security Service member about
the aforementioned barn burning, forced the creation of
CSIS. Last month, both the KGB and the agent in question
admitted that he was working for them with the specific
mission of sowing discord and distruption in Canada‘s
counter-intelligence services. If the Army screwed up
that badly Imagine screwing up every peacekeeping op since
1950, we would have turned National Defence over to the
boy scouts. Oh, speaking of which, the above mentioned
Head of Counter-Intelligence once in front of witnesses
turned over the complete specs of Canada‘s front line
interceptor at the time to a known KGB agent, because, as
he explained at the debrief, "those specs will be obsolete
within a decade and it won‘t matter.". Huh?

So, to make a long story short, yes the Airborne got
screwed, yes the RCMP seems to get the fair-haired boy
treatment in comparison, yes it‘s unfair, but as I
wrote, Canada‘s politicians seem **** bent to turn our
guardian forces into social workers with a reasonable
profit margin. Don‘t blame the RCMP for the stupidity
of Ottawa.

 

[army]

Re: DND Selling off More Equipment Let‘s make A Deal!





Posted by Brad Sallows from Burnaby BC Canada on May 10, 1999 at 14:01:53:


In Reply to: Re: DND Selling off More Equipment Let‘s make A Deal! posted by Rob Thompson on May 09, 1999 at 00:37:18:



I agree with Bob. If someone is willing to pay us for those old
clunkers, take the money and run. It might be prudent to hang onto
the aircraft a little longer, though.