CRA & "the infantry is for the young" (from: Cutting the CF/DND HQ bloat)

[Jed]

IAnother side note, this is going to p*ss people off but firing away anyways. I know of a few office jockeys who have been riding desk WAY too long and are serving well (I mean WELL past their prime). Enough of this age 60 Compulsory release, it should be back down to 55 and if it were up to me, 50 unless your in a very position (CO or RSM or higher). For myself, age 50 is only 12 years away and I can pretty much tell ya, I love soldiering but I am not hanging on past then. Assuming I stick around until 50 (I highly doubt it being my knees have taken alot of abuse).

Well so much for looking after your loyal troops as they age. I guess you only need the old guys 'in case of war'.  Personally I never thought I would have to worry about life after 50 but life plays funny tricks. You too will be there someday and I bet you take on a whole new perspective.

 

[OldSolduer]

Well so much for looking after your loyal troops as they age. I guess you only need the old guys 'in case of war'.  Personally I never thought I would have to worry about life after 50 but life plays funny tricks. You too will be there someday and I bet you take on a whole new perspective.

You don't see all that many pers staying after 50. Most are ready for retirement and all the adventure it brings.

Those that stay after 50 are usually at the senior levels, and their experience and skills are usually an asset.

 

[ArmyRick]

Highly doubt it. When I was 25 and I was like yeah I am going to stay in forever. Now that I am older (38) and I look at my future, I realize I don't want to be in the damn field humping weapons around when I am 50 and sure as hell don't want to be a has been.

Loyalty. Ok, to what extent do we remain loyal? When do look after the interest of the CF and Canadians first? Loyalty all fine and good, but seeing soldiers serve until 60? No thanks, I disagree.

We all have a limited window in our lives that we truly provide valuable service to the CF, we need to respect that.

How many young Canadians do we turn away from recruiting centers because Captain Jim or WO Tom (fictional people BTW) with 32 years of service, needs just another 3-4 years service but oh don't post them to a battalion, they could not physically handle it anymore. Sorry I see that kind of patronage going on, a lot of times it smacks of old boys club, I am quite sure their are Canadians who wouldn't be happy about it (As some are turned away at recruiting centers especially) and lets face it, it turns the calling of serving your country into a job.

I have seen this going on in both the regular force and the reserves.

I have 21 years in, unless I am an RSM or higher, believe me I don't plan to serve past 50, if as I said, I am still serving by then.

 

[Jed]

You don't see all that many pers staying after 50. Most are ready for retirement and all the adventure it brings.

Those that stay after 50 are usually at the senior levels, and their experience and skills are usually an asset.

I agree Jim. But you and I know a lot of very good troops now in the 50 to 55 range that can still walk the walk. I never did think the CRA 60 was a good idea.

 

[ArmyRick]

What do mean you never did think that CAR 60 was a good thing?

 

[Jed]

Compulsory Retirement Age (CRA) was changed to 60 from 55 for the new improved pension plan. Just another steady erosion of benefits that we all used to enjoy.

 

[ArmyRick]

I know what CRA is and what it means. Why do you think it was not a good idea for it too be age 60?

 

[OldSolduer]

CRA 60 vs CRA 55

If there is a position and you are fit medically and physically, you can stay til 60.

The demographic WRT 60 year olds has changed. I ain't your average 54 year old and any person in the CF at age 59 ain't your average 59 year old.

Just sayin. :2c:

 

[Jed]

For all the reasons you have stated: The body and attitude gives out for most people from 55 to 60. I have no scientific data to support this, just personal observation.

When they changed the CRA it was sold as a measure to prevent good soldiers from leaving the military. Of course, no one making the decisions expected we would wind up in a 10 year long shooting war.

 

[ArmyRick]

The body and the attitude gives out for most people between 55-60? Nah, disagree. Look at my trade Infantry. I know many cases of guys who are in their forties and they are past their prime.

BTW, this was a MWO who said to me almost twenty years ago that (in our case) the infantry is a young man's game.

Anyways, we are getting side tracked, if we want to discuss the age issue more, lets split and head to another thread. Agreed?

 

[Pusser]

Compulsory Retirement Age (CRA) was changed to 60 from 55 for the new improved pension plan. Just another steady erosion of benefits that we all used to enjoy.

A little (OK a lot) off topic, but what benefit has been eroded with CRA 60?  In fact, CRA 60 allows folks who joined later (i.e. after age 20) a chance to serve a little longer in order to improve their pension. 

 

[aesop081]

BTW, this was a MWO who said to me almost twenty years ago that (in our case) the infantry is a young man's game.

The combat arms are a "young man's game", although some people, who's pain receptors are obviously malfunctioning, can soldier with the youngest troops without a problem.

But what about elsewhere ? Still healthy, i could done my job and do it well at 55-60, why should i be retired ? Keeping me around is not going to prevent new blood from coming in and my accumulate training and experience is both expensive and needed. Its lose-lose for both the CF and myself to retire me early.

 

[Jed]

A little (OK a lot) off topic, but what benefit has been eroded with CRA 60?  In fact, CRA 60 allows folks who joined later (i.e. after age 20) a chance to serve a little longer in order to improve their pension. 

Sorry guys, my last post on this CRA thing. Way off topic and very boring. My attitude is most likely colored by my personal experience. I went into combat arms as a very old guy of 37 (a doctor's mistake, the cutoff was unofficially 35 back in the day) I never would have hit my 20 to get to CRA 55, They increased the CRA to 60 but they also increased the time served to 25. Bottom line is I was boxed in to retire out of my best job ever on my 55th birthday if I wanted a pension that was not buggered up. My pain receptors started to kick in around 53 to 54 and I personally believe in the one man, one kit principle so I didn't want to ride the system to 60 just to fight with the OR and the system for a CRA60 pension.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Compulsory Retirement Age (CRA) was changed to 60 from 55 for the new improved pension plan. Just another steady erosion of benefits that we all used to enjoy.

Explain.

 

[Jed]

Thanks, Recceguy for taking this stuff over to another thread. Hopefully my last comment answers all the Q's my comments brought forward.

WRT CRA60 and the current pension plan; It functions perfectly well for 99% of people now entering the CF at normal entry ages. There will always be exceptions where it does not work very well just as there was in the old plan. The item that came back to bite me was when they also increased the military time served to 25 yrs from 20 yrs before they started to decrease the annuity payout.

I have no desire to layout my various military and fed govt time in detail to the general public (very boring) to explain the point of view from the average OR when dealing with this complicated issue.

The day I signed my Reg force release for my 55th birthday I was told there was no way in hell I would be able to continue service in the P Res or even the CIC. If I would have relented and signed the CRA60 I would have had to do the whole 5 years and refight the OR scrimage on my 60th birthday. Meanwhile I would have been a Reg force Cbt arms offr subject to moves across the country and overseas deployments (which I was up for by the way) and endless BFTs.

In my opinion, it is physically pretty tough to be a cbt arms offr in your late 50's. No amount of training will bring back the cartilage in your knees or fix your fallen arches or fix your eyes and hearing. CRA60 is just plain not workable for many, most of people doing a cbt arms job. With the universallity of service requirement, even the sp pers need to DAG green if you are to be deemed a functional part of the CF team.

 

[dogger1936]

One of my subordinates is reaching 65 shortly and is looking forward to release. I enjoy the fact that IF I do stay in at 37 I'm done. I dont think a cap should be put into place as I've seen many 50 yr old combat arms soldiers who were fitter than myself.

However when I was going through recruit school all those years ago I remember base cheif coming in to talk to us. He told us about all the guys who joined the infantry with him he was the only one who made a full 20 year career in the trade. I myself am 1 of 2 people left in from my course after 14 or so years. Many have OT'd to easier trades or have proceeded to civilian employment.

I find the old guys who remain are mostly there due to their ex wifes destroying their lifes (dont they all!). They are a great old school soldier to get some great advice from.These guys know the ins and out of everything for the most part.

I do agree that the combat arms is a young mans game but believe there are some diehards out there (when they finally hit 65 they still carry a walking stick as their pace stick on evening walks) who bring a lot of corporate knowledge to the younger WO and SSM's who listen.

 

[OldSolduer]

I do agree that the combat arms is a young mans game but believe there are some diehards out there (when they finally hit 65 they still carry a walking stick as their pace stick on evening walks) who bring a lot of corporate knowledge to the younger WO and SSM's who listen.

It is for young people.
My days of section attacks on the Lawfield Corridor are over....that I know.

I am now the "coporate wisdom" dude.....who freely dispenses opinion and advice. Whether you want it or not.  ;D

 

[dogger1936]

Good Jim.

I know I have learned a lot by opening my ears to a lot of the "elder" fellows. In between the bitching and whining and the talk about how good it use to be...theres some great stuff in there hahaha.

 

[Jammer]

I'm 45...still in the field, and can still outrun, and outlast, and outsoldier some of the lads that are half my age...and still love it!

 

[OldSolduer]

Good Jim.

I know I have learned a lot by opening my ears to a lot of the "elder" fellows. In between the bitching and whining and the talk about how good it use to be...theres some great stuff in there hahaha.

The "good old days" sometimes weren't all that good. The camaraderie was somewhat better, but not always positive. We had very poor outdated equipment, often in disrepair. We had some "leaders" who were more interested in their careers and stock portfolios than they were in taking care of the troops.

Leadership training IMO is much better now. You're encouraged to think, not blindly follow and obey the orders given no matter how unlawful they may be.

As an example of the thinking of the 70s, I had read an article on how the Israeli Army had encouraged the troops to drink water....and we'll get you more. I was listening to an officer and WO bitch about how much water the troops were drinking and the old "in my day all we got was blah blah blah and we walked uphill both ways three miles yadda yadda yadda".

I mentioned that the Israelis studied the hydration thing and was promptly told the shut the f**k up.

Not exactly a way to encourage thinking and education.