Civie career after RMC?

[mavericknm]

My question is this. What are the prospects of entering the civillian sector after completing the mandatory service period upon graduating from RMC? More specificaly, what kind of salary can I expect by getting a civillian job comparison to continuing in the military taking into account of benefits. How well do most companies value a RMC education versus a civie university such as Waterloo. In addition, what level of work would one be able to find in the civillian sector and how transferable is the experience gained from those 5 years of mandatory enlistment.

Personaly I plan to go into electrical / mech / computer engineering. How well does the experience of being a pilot or a marine combat engineer or even a combat engineer go towards say getting a job designing airplanes at bombardier. What I also mean to say is would I be considered as straight out of university or a person who has had 5 years of engineering experience. From what I have read about the job desciptions of marine engineers and combat engineers, there doesn't seem to be much civilian transferable experience. Infact it seems even a little blue collared. For example the forces.gc website says that an engineer (army) may be expected to fight as infantry. Sounds fun but how transferable is this skill? So from what I have seen so far, it seems that an education at RMC pretty much means your staying in the military for good.

One user asked before of how many graduates of RMC per year actualy enter the civilian sector after completing the mandatory service. This question was never answered so I ask again.

Also just some personaly info to help you see where I stand. I have read the entire RMC website, all of the job descriptions for people with engineering degrees and the entire RMC brosure including CD-ROM. I am in grade 11 with a high 80s average although I expect it to increase. I have been a cadet for three years now. Unfortunately I am not the most athletic but I don't see any problem for me to change that. I've got my sights set on getting a bachelors in engineering and thats a fact. I also would like to follow it up with graduate work which seems to be somewhat difficult if I do enter the military. So far my choices for post-secondary are among Waterloo U of T and RMC.

I would greatly appreciate disscusion and answers. If any RMC and ROTP university graduates/students could help that would be great.

Thanks

 

[mavericknm]

Along with the question above. Really wish I had the engineers in the military CD but I don't. What is it like to be an engineer in the armed forces. This is a question for everyone. How much is comanding 40 sappers actualy like civilian engineer. Seems absolutely nothing like an office job drawing stuff with auto cad. Someone said that an officer running through a course did very badly and believe it or not their history degree is of no use to them. I love that but seriously how much of value does your degree actualy have? seems quite redundant.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

If you are already considering what you are going to do once you have paid back the mandatory time, do us all a favour (particularly the soldiers you will be given the privilege of commanding), and stay on civvie street.

 

[Journeyman]

You will get a MUCH higher paying job, more fullfillment, respect, lots of chicks, if you avoid the military and go to a civie university, then right into the workforce. With your clear focus and well thought-out priorities, you'll likely be offered a high-six-figure starting salary. [sarcasm off] Oh, and you won't have the opportunity of harming soldiers...who are worth more than you will ever likely be. 

 

[Journeyman]

Don't take away money from those who do want to do their duty and don't think about leaving right off the bat

Ya. That's what I meant to say.....my post just didn't come out as a polite  ;D

 

[mavericknm]

ohh sorry bout the reaction. Well that was really helpfull lol. seriously thanks for letting me know the difference. I'm still not sure which path I'l take but at least now I know there is a large difference. I hope you understand I mean absolutely no disrespect towards the military and see it as a very good option which I know I would enjoy. Its just that I thought there might be a way to have the best of both worlds. Anyways thanks and I hope you will forgive me.

 

[bbbb]

Very high I would think, especially if you are a pilot I would say.

 

[FredDaHead]

(some people just want to do one period of service, not everyone is a lifer).

And some people wanna get a free education, well-paid job experience, and then go on civvie street and get shitloads of money. (IE, most pilots, it seems...) What was your point again?

Now, if the question had been "if I get out after 15-20 years" the reaction would be different. But someone saying right off the bat, before even applying, that they only want to get in, do five years and get out, doesn't command nearly the same reaction.

Now, mavericknm, from what I understand, work experience AND a degree, in engineering, mean a good, high-paying job, no matter what. (Even with just the degree your prospects are pretty damn good) I'm not advisor or anything and I don't have any personal experience--just going by what I've heard here. I'd say following Piper's suggestion of going civvie and then, if you still want in the military, going as DEO, is probably the only good idea you have, if you really want to be in the military for five years. But that's just my future-ring-knocker opinion.

 

[bbbb]

A lot of the people I know at RMC are there for the degree and expressed no intention of staying for a long-term career in the CF. It's that easy there.

 

[TDV-Arte-et-Marte]

I also would like to follow it up with graduate work which seems to be somewhat difficult if I do enter the military.

Thanks

Not true. In fact, certain trades will allow you to obtain your P. Eng (Professional Engineer) with your military occupation. Also, don't expect to
(as in you won't) get pass the rank of Major without a graduate degree of some sort (under some Vision 2020 plan). The military will offer you numerous opportunities to do graduate work.

 

[Strike]

And some people wanna get a free education, well-paid job experience, and then go on civvie street and get shitloads of money. (IE, most pilots, it seems...) What was your point again?

Hmm, let's see.  Considering the majority of pilots in the CF are flying helicopters, the chances of them being picked up by Big Red or any other airline once they get out, are pretty slim.  To top it off, most airlines would have a hard time paying us the same salary we are currently receiving, at least for the first 5 years.  Commercial helicopter flying consists of long hours with little time off (not many weekends -- I've seen people fly 40 days straight before getting 2 days off) with no competition wrt pay.  Other choices consist of going out of country (and out of continent) to be able to actually see more money than the military pays.

So, what does this little speech mean?  It means Frederik, that you should not make such sweeping generalizations.  If you want to make a generalization about military pilots, it's that many (notice I did not use the word MOST) of them would be quite happy to put in as much time as they can, never getting promoted past the rank of Captain, thus assuring they remain in a flying position longer.

I'll take that apology for your insult to me and my colleagues any time now.

BTW -- If you are Navy, why is your rank Army?

 

[23007]

2 guys I live with here are currently doing Masters through distance learning while they are waiting for their courses in Moose Jaw. Anything is possible in the military, all you have to do is ask.

 

[Strike]

A lot of the people I know at RMC are there for the degree and expressed no intention of staying for a long-term career in the CF. It's that easy there.

And what, pray tell, is that suposed to mean?  I thought you were going to civvie U.  How would you know it was "easy" if you aren't going to school there?  If you're grtting this info from artsmen (fun dig there) I suggest that you take it with a grain of salt.  Go talk to an engineer.  Actually, go talk to someone in the Chem Eng course.  They might have a different view of how "easy" it is there.

bbbb, I swear to God, if you keep bashing RMC with assumed notions ("I once heard a guy say to another guy that he overheard someone say..." does not constitue solid knowledge), I will have to take further action.

 

[aesop081]

Very high I would think, especially if you are a pilot I would say.

I hate to break it to you lips but after Canada 3000 went tits up...pilots are in the same boat as everyone else.  Guys with engineering degrees from RMC ( chemical, environmental, civil, mechanical, etc....) have just as much of a chance of finding work after the CF and so do others with various degrees. I have so far only witnessed one pilot leave the CF for the airlines.....count them .....1.......  You are realy starting to burn my a$$ with your comments on this site so far.  I realy cant wait to see if you make it past MJ  :  Strike has already breifed you on the post-CF pilot employement so i wont dwell on it...time for you to to go into EMCON and step away from the keyboard.

 

[FredDaHead]

WRT pilots and not staying in, that's just what the majority of them here at RMC (though not all of them) have been saying. "Oh yeah, I'm gonna get my free education, get trained on transports, and then go fly for Air Canada and get 100K a year doing an easy job." ...That's what a lot of them are saying. I'm not saying ALL of them are that way, just the vocal ones.

WRT my rank being "army," well, I'm at RMC, so I'm not allowed to say "hey, look at me, I'm Navy!" (except on MOC weekend) I'm not allowed to have any kit, be it Army (which we get yelled at if we don't have) or Navy (which we can't get) and so I'm usually either in 5's or combats, so I just wanted to represent what I actually wear on a regular basis.

 

[bbbb]

Why would you not be able to say and I quote "hey, look at me, I'm Navy!"? There is no shame in expressing your role within the CF. If you are navy then you should be able to say that with pride regardless of what the army guys say. Being in the Navy is something to be proud of, not subordinate to the army. The navy and air force are equal to the army in every respect, well except for the top general, who obviously commands all of them.

 

[FredDaHead]

Why would you not be able to say and I quote "hey, look at me, I'm Navy!"? There is no shame in expressing your role within the CF. If you are navy then you should be able to say that with pride regardless of what the army guys say. Being in the Navy is something to be proud of, not subordinate to the army. The navy and air force are equal to the army in every respect, well except for the top general, who obviously commands all of them.

That's not the point. Basically, at RMC, "we are all green." We're not allowed to wear NCDs for example, and so when we're not in 5's or 4's (or Scarlets...) we're in relish dress. It really takes away from the idea of being a Naval Officer, and it does make one feel "subordinate" to the other services. Add to that the fact we're not allowed to wear our Navy goretex or tuque with combats, but we're not entitled to have a green goretex or a green tuque... Makes the Navy people feel like "second-class citizens" so to speak.

Hopefully, the retiring of 5's, being replaced by elemental dress (3's) will help make the Naval Cadets feel like we're actually in the Navy, and not workers in some kind of demented arbeitslager who aren't allowed to wear anything but the drab, ugly clothes they give us.

 

[23007]

Hopefully, the retiring of 5's, being replaced by elemental dress (3's)

Is this actually going to happen?!?! When Rear Admiral Morse was there he was trying to get rid of the 5's but that idea got canned once Bgen Leclerc took over. Is the new commandant going to do away with the college dress? I hope not...
Although the new commandant was the old Dcdts under Morse so maybe it was his idea...

 

[Strike]

Frederik,

Well, those pilots who all think they are going to be going multi engine and will thus be able to pad their CV are going to get a big shock when they get through MJ, cause most of them will probably be going helos.  If they don't believe you when you pass this info on to them, tell them to go see Capt Chambers or the Deputy DCdts.

As for the rank, this is one of the few places where "The Man" has little to no control over you.  Enjoy the freedom.  Show your pride in being part of the senior service, and stick it to "The Man".  PUT A NAVY RANK IN YOUR AVATAR!!!!

Can I hear some encouragement from the gallery?

"Na-vy Rank! Na-vy Rank!"

 

[Big Foot]

Na-vy Rank! Na-vy Rank!

That what you were looking for, Strike?