Citing new police role, subway guards refused to stop woman's beating (CBC)

[Yrys]

Montreal police ordered to sort out transit security roles

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2007/06/20/qc-metrosecurity0620.html

Quebec Public Security Minister Jacques Dupuis has ordered Montreal police to clear up subway
security protocol, after an incident earlier this week in which public transit security guards watched a
woman get beaten without intervening.

Dupuis called the event "intolerable" and asked on Wednesday that police and the Montreal transit
commission sort out who is in charge of patrolling the city’s public transit system. The incident in
question occurred at the Berri-UQAM metro stop on Monday, the same day Montreal police announced
they were taking over patrolling the public system.

The union representing subway security guards said the guards had no choice but to stand aside as
the man assaulted his partner because police had ordered them to stop intervening in violent incidents,
"This shows how absurd this new arrangement is, because in regular circumstances, metro guards
would have acted right away, but now they're not supposed to," union president Josée Massicotte told Radio-Canada.

Alain Lamirande told CBC's French-language service he witnessed a man beating up a woman who appeared
to be his girlfriend on a platform at the Berri-UQAM station.The Montreal resident said he saw the man punch
and kick the woman, who fell to the ground. When he approached the security guards and asked for help, they
"yelled back that it wasn't their responsibility anymore, they don't have to do anything about it." Lamirande said
he then went to the ticket station and asked the employee behind the glass whether she could call police. She
answered "no," and said she was too busy to call her supervisor.

Police arrived 17 minutes later, but the couple had already left the station, Lamirande said.

Montreal police are assigning more than 130 officers to patrol the stations, saying it's part of a larger strategy
to fight street gangs, who also operate underground in the transit system.

They could have at least follow them in the subway...

 

[beach_bum]

Disgusting.  Whether it was their job or not, to stand by and watch it happen is morally wrong.

 

[2 Cdo]

Disgusting.  Whether it was their job or not, to stand by and watch it happen is morally wrong.

Exactly. I don't understand the reasoning of some people who would just stand by and not do something. Oh wait, it's a union thing. :

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Oh wait, it's a union thing. :

No, no its not. Its a cowardly thing.........................I guess if you can lump anyone who belongs to a Union like that than maybe it was OK for our "anarchist" to lump all soldiers as 'trance-like zombies". 

Shake your head.

 

[geo]

Read in the paper this morning that this is a bit more of a Union spin to the thing.
1st the Security guards wanted to be amalgamated into the MUC Police
then the union wanted to represent the police officers that were to be assigned to the subway
(see where this is going?)

 

[2 Cdo]

No, no its not. Its a cowardly thing.........................I guess if you can lump anyone who belongs to a Union like that than maybe it was OK for our "anarchist" to lump all soldiers as 'trance-like zombies".   

Shake your head.

No need to shake my head. Far too many unionists use the "It's not my job" in order to protect their job.  There are also unions that punish people for doing anything outside their "precisely written job descriptions".

That being said, there are some good union workers, and there are some good unions. Unfortunately the good are tarnished by the actions of workers like the ones in the example.

Read in the paper this morning that this is a bit more of a Union spin to the thing.
1st the Security guards wanted to be amalgamated into the MUC Police
then the union wanted to represent the police officers that were to be assigned to the subway
(see where this is going?)

Bruce, I hate to say I told you so. Maybe someone else should give their head a shake. :

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I don't care what it says.......my union telling me something would never mean that I park my backbone under any conditions.

How about a compromise,...you and I hook up, we find these guys and we shake their heads for them? :evil:

 

[2 Cdo]

I don't care what it says.......my union telling me something would never mean that I park my backbone under any conditions.

How about a compromise,...you and I hook up, we find these guys and we shake their heads for them? :evil:

That sounds like an offer too good to pass up! ;D In order to clear the air, it isn't just a "union thing". It seems to be more a "societal thing". Way too many people today are just too damned afraid to "get involved" because they might get into trouble. If doing the right thing means being charged by police (unless they believe my version of what happened to said dirtbag ;D) then so be it. I will gladly go to court and tell my side of the story, followed by a little talk with the media. It would still be THE RIGHT THING TO DO!

 

[Yrys]

It seems to be more a "societal thing". Way too many people today are just too damned afraid to "get involved" because they might get into trouble.

Yep. The guards didn't lift a finger, but journalists said there were around 200 people nearby...

 

[ClaytonD]

The 'bystander effect' is something that I think effects all humans to some degree, at least in this society. I think it's more or less everybody expects somebody else to fix the problem. When they see something happening, they try to justify their inaction irrationally with stuff like, "It's not my job," or "It wasn't my problem."

Doesn't Quebec and some other provinces have a 'Good Samaritan act'? Where your duty of care to people around you in dire need is forced by law? I distinctly remember that from my highschool law book.

I think that most people have stories of some sort of somebody in need of assistance and nobody coming to their aid. The other day a person started having a seizure in my school, and most people just created a circle around him and watched. Over a hundred people in the school area (Yearbook signings) and nobody went in to do something except for me and this other kid who went in to at least help him so he didn't smash his head on the ground or choke on the blood and vomit he was spitting. One kid in the crowd even said, "Somebody call a teacher." as opposed to actually getting one himself. Me and the guy held him there on his side (Half assed recovery position) until a teacher/nurse arrived.

I'd like to really insult the people who didn't do anything, and scream curses at them, but I think it's really just a matter of them feeling helpless in a situation where they can help.

 

[Haggis]

I'd like to really insult the people who didn't do anything, and scream curses at them, but I think it's really just a matter of them feeling helpless in a situation where they can help.

Training goes a long way in making people responsive.  Regarding your incident, a knowledge of First Aid would make you able and willing to respond.  Regarding ther Montreal subway incident, the bystanders most probably had no idea of what they could or should do under those circumstances as they had no experience or training upon which to draw.  The overwhelming majority had probably never seen a violent act that wasn't on TV and were just as shocked as the victim.

Still that doesn't excuse their inaction.  For God's sake, yell or scream at the attacker.  Just do SOMETHING!

 

[Yrys]

For God's sake, yell or scream at the attacker.  Just do SOMETHING!

+ 1

 

[pbi]

Doesn't the Metro have the 911 panic buttons and strips like the TTC does? If it does, any one of those 200 people could have hit a button and triggered a full response to the scene. The fare staff should have called 911 the second they were aware something was going on.  Beyond that, 200 people just stood there and watched a woman get beat up by some shit-bag?

Cheers

 

[Greymatters]

Yep. The guards didn't lift a finger, but journalists said there were around 200 people nearby...

Guards are paid to do this and expected to do this. 

Most of the general public shy away from physical conflict, and those that want to act are too worried about being sued nowadays.  Lay a finger on anyone and they will yell 'excessive force!'.  Even the message sent out by every police department is 'dont take the law into your own hands, call for police and dont get involved'. 

 

[armyvern]

I think the actions (well actually non-action) of the girl behind the ticket counter goes straight to the heart of this matter.

She was too busy to call her boss?? Wasn't allowed to phone the Police?? BULLSHIT.

This non-action by them was simply to draw attention to their feeling slighted that Montreal Police were taking over "their" turf.

They wanted to make a point. It sure as well wasn't that they couldn't help ... it's that they intentionally chose NOT to. Too bad a woman had to get hurt in the process.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

.....and I choose to believe that since this whole affair has dropped off the map, that the whole story got a lot of 'poetic license' by the reporting media.