Changes, needed fixes in Cadets (merged)

[Buschgirl427]

The CHAP programs definately needs to go. Too many Cadets are abusing it to the point where the NCO's are scared to use a firm voice with an out-of-line cadet. With that said, I was actually dissapointed with the "Army" part of army cadets when I first joined. I thought it would be waaay more hardcore then it is. I'm still in the program, but watching the generation change has really made me see the "youth group" aspect more than the "Cadet" aspect.  the Cadets who are joining the program now have no rexpect for authority figures, or anyone older than them for that matter. If we were able to enstill some discipline into the cadets (ie extra drill over the break period for slacking off on the parade square during a lesson), they will learn.

 

[Neill McKay]

The CHAP programs definately needs to go. Too many Cadets are abusing it to the point where the NCO's are scared to use a firm voice with an out-of-line cadet.

I've been working in the cadet programme for seven years (and much of that as a UHRA) and I've never seen that situation.  It may be a problem in some units because of a poor implementation of the CHAP programme, but it's certainly not universal.

If we were able to enstill some discipline into the cadets (ie extra drill over the break period for slacking off on the parade square during a lesson), they will learn.

We are able to do exactly that, and I've seen it done many times.

 

[Bergeron 971]

first thing the ARMY cadets highers need to do, is ditch the new fabric they use for the Army cadet uniforms. That nylon/shinny fabric Sucks. But the Air cadets have the real fabric.

If the Army cadets ditched the present uniform I would most likely lose interest in the program at the stray that broke my camel back.
I think that the CF should GIVE the old OD combats to the Cadet movement. and the cadet movement adopt the only CF standards for that dress. Could be used for extra training, FTXs etc.

Another thing I personally do not like, Is the CIC's wearing Cadpat's while the cadets are told to wear dress uniforms.
What I would do is, ONCE a month, the CIC's "AND" cadets would wear Combats/cadpats for CIC, cause the CF would have given the OD combats to the cdts.

MANY CIC would complain, We have lives, careers etc, and no time to shine boots etc. Well sorry but it should be part of the dedication to the system, remember Lead by example? Telling a cdt his or her uniform is no up to standard when your wearing relish? not right in my eyes.

End of rant

 

[Neill McKay]

first thing the ARMY cadets highers need to do, is ditch the new fabric they use for the Army cadet uniforms. That nylon/shinny fabric Sucks. But the Air cadets have the real fabric.

I'm almost certain it's exactly the same fabric.  It changed a few years ago, though.  Maybe you're looking at a new army cadet uniform and an old air cadet uniform, or vice-versa?

MANY CIC would complain, We have lives, careers etc, and no time to shine boots etc. Well sorry but it should be part of the dedication to the system, remember Lead by example? Telling a cdt his or her uniform is no up to standard when your wearing relish? not right in my eyes.

Many would complain?  I doubt that.  The vast majority of us wear DEU as our normal dress of the day, and as far as I know most or all of the rest are supposed to (depending perhaps on regional orders).  I think the whiners, if any, would be a small minority.

 

[Bergeron 971]

na, I mean the old fabric used to build the army cadet uniform was the same as teh old duty dress of the army. now army cadet uniform is like thin plastic nylon.
I work in the CC QM. and I have old uniforms. and teh new stuff is junk. the fabric doesn't last worth a damb. and its darker green, almost looks black in some light, compaired to the old uniforms, they faided just like the real uniforms. hahaha,

 

[vendetta]

iam probably repeating other ppl but i have been thinking alot as a SGT in the Air Cadets

#1 thing for me is how were turning into boy scouts, we have to go back to the more military ways of the old days and CHAP is holding us back a little. i joined cadets hearing storys of war games and how it was the closest thing to the military i could get to at my age so i joined, i get in and iam stuck being promoted every year (not complaining about me being promoted) without any challenge as some of the most incompetent ppl are promoted.
#2 we are not aloud to play any war games due to the risk of a cadet being hurt (why are we tought first aid then) on my campouts we can't even play games in the bush with running.

o and for the plastic materials that melt when u iron them, it's coasting alot of $$$ to get new unifourms when they go shinny

well that it for now... vendetta

 

[1feral1]

Another thing I personally do not like, Is the CIC's wearing Cadpat's while the cadets are told to wear dress uniforms.
What I would do is, ONCE a month, the CIC's "AND" cadets would wear Combats/cadpats for CIC, cause the CF would have given the OD combats to the cdts.

MANY CIC would complain, We have lives, careers etc, and no time to shine boots etc. Well sorry but it should be part of the dedication to the system, remember Lead by example? Telling a cdt his or her uniform is no up to standard when your wearing relish? not right in my eyes.

End of rant

Don't get me wrong, but whats the beef with CADPAT? As for Cadet uniforms, what wrong spending a bit of time with an iron a nd some boot polish? There is more cadet life than the LCF. The only times cadets should wear combats is on certain/specific exercises and during summer camps when required.

Having CIC officers (who do have a CF commission), and not allowing them to wear the current CF uniform is just plain ridiculous. Either you are or are not a member of the CF. Do not CIC have CF Greens? At least they did when I left the CF in January 1995. So there's your iron and boot polish. I disagree with your opinion that many CIC would complain about polishing boots. Any that do so, and whinge to cadets about it should not be there in the first place.

My two cents,


Wes

Wes 

 

[condor888000]

#1 thing for me is how were turning into boy scouts, we have to go back to the more military ways of the old days and CHAP is holding us back a little.

No one who is currently a cadet was in pre-CHAP. I was the second or third year it was implemented, and I'm nearly 19, so sorry, but thats a cop out. CHAP is not what is wrong, CHAP has not caused the problems.

i joined cadets hearing storys of war games and how it was the closest thing to the military i could get to at my age so i joined, i get in and iam stuck being promoted every year (not complaining about me being promoted) without any challenge as some of the most incompetent ppl are promoted.

Your opinion. Obviously not your officers. As the officers are generally much more experienced, I think I'd trust them. I was in the same spot, and looking back, the officers did do the right thing. Just keep that in mind.

#2 we are not aloud to play any war games due to the risk of a cadet being hurt (why are we tought first aid then) on my campouts we can't even play games in the bush with running.

It takes a fool to run in the bush. I'm sorry, but having 50 screaming 12 year olds sprinting through the woods is an insunce disaster waiting to happen. Its common sense, and remember, if a cadet gets hurt, the movement is liable. As such, they try to minimize risk to protect themselves. Not remove risk, just limit it. Which, is very smart when you get down to it, last thing we need is a bunch of large insurance payouts and increased premiums for the movement.

o and for the plastic materials that melt when u iron them, it's coasting alot of $$$ to get new unifourms when they go shinny

...

PRESSING CLOTH. Removes the chance of melting.

 

[Scott]

vendetta,

Please familiarize yourself with the Army.ca Conduct Guidelines, specifically the parts about Spelling, Grammar and MSN speak. As well, take some time to read the Cadet Forum Guidelines and the Dead End Topics. It should serve to enlighten you a bit to the things that have beaten to death here.

Thank you.

Scott
Army.ca Staff

 

[ryanmann356]

The CHAP programs definately needs to go. Too many Cadets are abusing it to the point where the NCO's are scared to use a firm voice with an out-of-line cadet.

I agree, however i believe that some kind of preventative measures should be set up in order to keep the non coms in line and not abuse their power.  Chap is too much, nothing is too little, they need to find a happy medium.  Or maybe even teach it in a way so that there is a set standard to adhere to.  Some corps (and I experienced this while staffing in Vernon) teach their kids that they can call out "CHAPP" for anything that they feel is pushing them to achieve new levels or outside of their comfort level.  Are we going to have people trying to chapp the LD&C staff for making them do the confidence course?

PS I know CHAPP isnt a verb but whatever...

 

[GGHG_Cadet]

I have never ever had a problem with CHAP, and at camp I cannot recall a real CHAP case.

The reason people seem to have problems with it is because it is not implemented properly at the corps level. When being taught CHAP the cadets need to know that there is a difference between Harrassment/Abuse and Discipline, then you must establish what is proper discipline and what is discipline gone too far. CHAP should not interfere with day to day LHQ or CSTC activities unless there is a serious problem. As long as NCOs remember(and use) the Qualities of a Leader and the Principles of Leadership in their leadership there will not be a problem.

 

[Neill McKay]

Some corps (and I experienced this while staffing in Vernon) teach their kids that they can call out "CHAPP" for anything that they feel is pushing them to achieve new levels or outside of their comfort level.

Any UHRA who teaches that is not doing his or her job correctly.

 

[wannabe SF member]

o and for the plastic materials that melt when u iron them, it's coasting alot of $$$ to get new unifourms when they go shinny

Iron your uniform with a wet linge on it, it will keep it from burning or going shiny

 

[wannabe SF member]

Definitely the uniform fabric and i would go back to the old cadets, implement just a bit more physical training and put more emphasis on the CF.

 

[timma]

I am in air cadets and all of the stuff vendetta said is true.at camp we were treated like babies.we did no activity if it got too hot , we didn't run at all. I think we should put the cadet back into cadet.Dress standards are pitifull , and the majority of the cadets have no respect. lets make cadets fun again. screw this safety crap and let cadets take risks.none of this 'no wargames' and 'it's not shooting , it's marksmanship' stuff. enough raving for now

 

[Michael OLeary]

I am in air cadets and all of the stuff vendetta said is true.at camp we were treated like babies.we did no activity if it got too hot , we didn't run at all. I think we should put the cadet back into cadet.Dress standards are pitifull , and the majority of the cadets have no respect. lets make cadets fun again. screw this safety crap and let cadets take risks.none of this 'no wargames' and 'it's not shooting , it's marksmanship' stuff. enough raving for now

Yes, enough raving for now.  Please see the bottom part of this post before you start again: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21472.0.html

 

[Big Foot]

screw this safety crap

That is, without doubt, the most brilliant thing i've heard all day  :

 

[aesop081]

Whats that smell ?

.....must be a dogpile brewing.....

 

[Yrys]

the most brilliant thing i've heard all day  :

You must have a short day : ) .

 

[Michael OLeary]

Temporarily locked, this thread will be cleaned and reopened later.