CF "seducing and preying" upon Canadian Youth - News Clip
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Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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It's nice to see her son was able to think for himself and made his own decisions.
This girl has an opinion, army is bad cadets turn children into assassins bla bla bla good for her.
Miss whatever, if you're reading this put your crusade down for a minute and write him a letter telling you love him miss him and support him.
This girl has an opinion, army is bad cadets turn children into assassins bla bla bla good for her.
Miss whatever, if you're reading this put your crusade down for a minute and write him a letter telling you love him miss him and support him.
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exactly what i was thinking, couldn't of put it any better myselfFlawed Design said:
she should spend more time supporting her son in the decision he made instead of dishonoring him. i cant say for sure but i would have to think he would be a little disappointed to hear his own mother making these claims(unless his views are the same)
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I just have to comment! I admit I haven't read all the posts, so maybe someone has mentioned this before.
Cadets promote LEADERSHIP-not blind following.
I have a 27 year old son. He didn't choose the Military, which surprised me-his father and myself, his uncle and grandfather were all Military, and he has a cousin currently serving. We all thought The Kid would follow, but he chose not to. No problem, his choice, and I would never have tried to change it.
The Kid was, however, in Navy League, then a Navy Cadet. Sure he learned to follow. Then he learned to LEAD. When he went into Navy League, he was a shy little mouse. He wouldn't say "Boo to a Goose". Before his first year was up, he was giving a talk at Parent Night-and did an admirable job. His second year in Navy League, he' d been promoted-twice-and was instructing bends and hitches, and drill! His Parade Square rhetoric "My grandmother marches better than you, and she has 2 replaced hips". Their officer lost it-he had to leave the parade floor to laugh!! His ability to lead got him into leadership rolls as a young adult. His lack of shyness got him into the board room and into excellent carreer possibilities.
She needn't talk to me about what a "bad" thing the Cadet movement is!!
Hawk
Cadets promote LEADERSHIP-not blind following.
I have a 27 year old son. He didn't choose the Military, which surprised me-his father and myself, his uncle and grandfather were all Military, and he has a cousin currently serving. We all thought The Kid would follow, but he chose not to. No problem, his choice, and I would never have tried to change it.
The Kid was, however, in Navy League, then a Navy Cadet. Sure he learned to follow. Then he learned to LEAD. When he went into Navy League, he was a shy little mouse. He wouldn't say "Boo to a Goose". Before his first year was up, he was giving a talk at Parent Night-and did an admirable job. His second year in Navy League, he' d been promoted-twice-and was instructing bends and hitches, and drill! His Parade Square rhetoric "My grandmother marches better than you, and she has 2 replaced hips". Their officer lost it-he had to leave the parade floor to laugh!! His ability to lead got him into leadership rolls as a young adult. His lack of shyness got him into the board room and into excellent carreer possibilities.
She needn't talk to me about what a "bad" thing the Cadet movement is!!
Hawk
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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How come anytime someone comes out of the wood work with some wacky theory or opinion we feel the need to say we support their rights of freedom of expression etc..
Know who the victim here is? Her son. Just think about it, he can't call home and bitch about hsi bad day at work or jerk of a boss without his mother running to the news papers or whoever and writting about how her son has incompetent leadership and undergoing harsh conditions with poor training bla bla bla.
Not only is he in a war zone, he has to censor EVERYTHING he says.
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Because we do. That is what democracy is all about and some folks need to be reminded
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Flawed Design I respect that as a right to your freedom of expression, anything else just wouldn't be politically correct. ^-^
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And now, from the other side, shared with the usual disclaimer...
Criticism of cadets unfounded print this article
Program doesn't 'seduce' young people into military
John Boileau, Halifax Daily News, 21 Mar 07
Article link
I see that Andria Hill-Lehr is at it again. She's the Valley mom who's been complaining vociferously for the past year to anyone who will listen about the deployment of her son - 23-year-old reserve infantryman Cpl. Garrow Hill-Stosky - to Afghanistan.
In her latest verbal assaults, she makes the outlandish claims that the military are seducing impressionable youth into the Armed Forces before they have the ability to think critically. In particular, she accuses the cadet organization of teaching its members to follow, when they should be learning to think for themselves.
Hill-Lehr - who was formerly married to a military man and whose father was in the army during the Second World War - feels the words brainwashing and indoctrination have lost their emphasis today. She prefers to use the word "seduction" to describe how the Forces get young people to join.
Apparently, she's even writing a book about it.
Yes, young people do join cadets - it is a youth program, after all. And cadets do advertise for kids to join - as do several other organizations. That is hardly grounds for general and unsubstantiated criticism of the program.
No one may become a cadet without their parents' or guardians' signed permission, so it is ultimately the adults who decide if their children may join. Parents are encouraged to become aware of the program before their child joins, and informed they are expected to provide support, from assistance with fund-raising to transportation for training nights, sports and other events.
Half the picture
Since her son was 14 when he joined cadets, I can only assume that Hill-Lehr gave her permission and signed his forms to let him become a cadet in the first place. That is hardly the "seduction" she would have us believe takes place.
Hill-Lehr's claims that cadets are taught to follow presents only half the picture. In any organized program, there are followers and leaders. Before someone can be a leader, they must learn to be a follower. Contrary to her contention, the first stated aim of cadets is to develop leadership, and cadets progress up the leadership chain as they learn.
According to the vast majority of parents of the 58,000 boys and girls in cadets across the country, the cadets are doing a pretty good job at it. And there is absolutely no doubt that being in cadets has prevented many young people from developing into problem teens.
The instructors who teach cadets are members of the Cadet Instructor Cadre, a separate component of the Forces. They are not even trained as fighters, but as youth leaders.
Cadets are not members of the Canadian Forces, nor are they expected or coerced to join. As Capt. Hope Carr, the public-affairs officer for the Atlantic regional cadet organization, explains: "When a child joins hockey at the age of 10, it would be a leap of logic to assume that he has to become an NHL player as an adult. The same is true of the cadets."
It should be mentioned that some cadets do later enrol in the Forces - but many more pursue other vocations. Whatever career path former cadets follow, I firmly believe they will be better people for having been in cadets.
Conflicted
While Hill-Lehr obviously loves her son and is concerned about him, it seems to me she's a conflicted mom. She has a son who's gone from cadets to the reserves to an operational deployment - yet her statements make it clear she's anti-military. He's in a combat zone - but she's obviously a pacifist. He's in Afghanistan voluntarily - and she doesn't support the Canadian Forces' presence there.
It's just a slightly different take on the old story of the immovable object meeting the irresistible force.
I'm sure Hill-Lehr doesn't fully appreciate the possible harm she is doing to her son by her continuous harping. At a time when he most needs the support of his family, her criticisms can only be distracting and demoralizing.
That's not really the way you want someone to feel when they're in a situation where the risk of injury or death is a constant concern.
Hill-Lehr has every right to make her opinions known whenever and wherever she wants to. I just can't help feeling it would be a whole lot better if she held them back until her son returns home safely in June.
johnboileau@eastlink.ca
For the record, John Boileau supports cadets, the Canadian Forces and our mission in Afghanistan.
Betcha a loonie the phrase "child soldiers" will appear in her book.....
Criticism of cadets unfounded print this article
Program doesn't 'seduce' young people into military
John Boileau, Halifax Daily News, 21 Mar 07
Article link
I see that Andria Hill-Lehr is at it again. She's the Valley mom who's been complaining vociferously for the past year to anyone who will listen about the deployment of her son - 23-year-old reserve infantryman Cpl. Garrow Hill-Stosky - to Afghanistan.
In her latest verbal assaults, she makes the outlandish claims that the military are seducing impressionable youth into the Armed Forces before they have the ability to think critically. In particular, she accuses the cadet organization of teaching its members to follow, when they should be learning to think for themselves.
Hill-Lehr - who was formerly married to a military man and whose father was in the army during the Second World War - feels the words brainwashing and indoctrination have lost their emphasis today. She prefers to use the word "seduction" to describe how the Forces get young people to join.
Apparently, she's even writing a book about it.
Yes, young people do join cadets - it is a youth program, after all. And cadets do advertise for kids to join - as do several other organizations. That is hardly grounds for general and unsubstantiated criticism of the program.
No one may become a cadet without their parents' or guardians' signed permission, so it is ultimately the adults who decide if their children may join. Parents are encouraged to become aware of the program before their child joins, and informed they are expected to provide support, from assistance with fund-raising to transportation for training nights, sports and other events.
Half the picture
Since her son was 14 when he joined cadets, I can only assume that Hill-Lehr gave her permission and signed his forms to let him become a cadet in the first place. That is hardly the "seduction" she would have us believe takes place.
Hill-Lehr's claims that cadets are taught to follow presents only half the picture. In any organized program, there are followers and leaders. Before someone can be a leader, they must learn to be a follower. Contrary to her contention, the first stated aim of cadets is to develop leadership, and cadets progress up the leadership chain as they learn.
According to the vast majority of parents of the 58,000 boys and girls in cadets across the country, the cadets are doing a pretty good job at it. And there is absolutely no doubt that being in cadets has prevented many young people from developing into problem teens.
The instructors who teach cadets are members of the Cadet Instructor Cadre, a separate component of the Forces. They are not even trained as fighters, but as youth leaders.
Cadets are not members of the Canadian Forces, nor are they expected or coerced to join. As Capt. Hope Carr, the public-affairs officer for the Atlantic regional cadet organization, explains: "When a child joins hockey at the age of 10, it would be a leap of logic to assume that he has to become an NHL player as an adult. The same is true of the cadets."
It should be mentioned that some cadets do later enrol in the Forces - but many more pursue other vocations. Whatever career path former cadets follow, I firmly believe they will be better people for having been in cadets.
Conflicted
While Hill-Lehr obviously loves her son and is concerned about him, it seems to me she's a conflicted mom. She has a son who's gone from cadets to the reserves to an operational deployment - yet her statements make it clear she's anti-military. He's in a combat zone - but she's obviously a pacifist. He's in Afghanistan voluntarily - and she doesn't support the Canadian Forces' presence there.
It's just a slightly different take on the old story of the immovable object meeting the irresistible force.
I'm sure Hill-Lehr doesn't fully appreciate the possible harm she is doing to her son by her continuous harping. At a time when he most needs the support of his family, her criticisms can only be distracting and demoralizing.
That's not really the way you want someone to feel when they're in a situation where the risk of injury or death is a constant concern.
Hill-Lehr has every right to make her opinions known whenever and wherever she wants to. I just can't help feeling it would be a whole lot better if she held them back until her son returns home safely in June.
johnboileau@eastlink.ca
For the record, John Boileau supports cadets, the Canadian Forces and our mission in Afghanistan.
Betcha a loonie the phrase "child soldiers" will appear in her book.....
civmick
Jr. Member
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there are those who consider even Scouting to be militaristic - one of them asked me about it when I was about 13 or so.
I think it's hilarious that people are worried about kids being regimented while the cult of helicopter parenting is scheduling any initiative out of youngsters from the cradle up before scouts or cadets get next nor near them.
I think it's hilarious that people are worried about kids being regimented while the cult of helicopter parenting is scheduling any initiative out of youngsters from the cradle up before scouts or cadets get next nor near them.
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Put her last name in your search engine-she's well-known for these rants, it seems. There are way too many links to put in here. The Cadet forum is particularly good.
I was thinking-if we can do this right. Maybe we should e-mail her son and offer our support WITHOUT ANY reference to his mother, of course. We may be all the support he gets. Comments?
Hawk
I was thinking-if we can do this right. Maybe we should e-mail her son and offer our support WITHOUT ANY reference to his mother, of course. We may be all the support he gets. Comments?
Hawk
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I somewhat feel bad for her son to have to put up with the ridicule and leering looks of his cohorts {probably}.
I thank the gods that, although my mom and dad don't truely agree with the war in Afghanistan, they DO support and stand behind our troops and wish them well.
My mom cried when I told her I was going "overthere", and said the ancient Roman father's creed, "With your shield or on it"
We all HAVE to support what this woman says, it is our lot in life; and like most times, we don't agree with what she says.
Confused rant off
I thank the gods that, although my mom and dad don't truely agree with the war in Afghanistan, they DO support and stand behind our troops and wish them well.
My mom cried when I told her I was going "overthere", and said the ancient Roman father's creed, "With your shield or on it"
We all HAVE to support what this woman says, it is our lot in life; and like most times, we don't agree with what she says.
Confused rant off
medic65726
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I do not believe either that the Cadet system brainwashes our youth and would be more than happy if my son when he is older chooses to join as well. Then again I would be proud of him if he joined the CF when older as well. I spent 5 years in Army Cadets, loved every minute of it, and was free to make my own decisions. It certianly does not teach children to just blindly follow, but to first follow and learn and then lead. I decided for many reasons when I aged out of Cadets, not to join the CF, and made the decision to become a Paramedic. I've worked as a Paramedic since leaving school, and as a Flight Paramedic for over 6 years now and don't regret my choice at all. I just serve my country in a different sort of uniform. The organisation taught me a lot, helped me with the confidence to make it through job interviews, taught me how to present myself well in public, gave me an appreciation for the important work that serving members of the Forces do, and fostered and increased my love of the outdoors. I don't see any of these things as bad and think myself a better person for having gone through the Cadet system. I was supported in that time by my parents who have rather Left leaning political views, maybe coming from having helped hide Vietnam Draft Dodgers in their youth. They never criticized what I did as they saw the benefits of what I was doing. I would have been crushed if, having made the choice to serve my county overseas, and placing myself in the utmost danger, that my mother, while excercising her protected rights of free-speech rebuted my decision and said I was brainwashed. I'm sure it will make for some interesting dinner-table conversation when he's back. Just my 2 cents and I hope they all come back safe.
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Hawk said:Put her last name in your search engine-she's well-known for these rants, it seems. There are way too many links to put in here. The Cadet forum is particularly good.
I was thinking-if we can do this right. Maybe we should e-mail her son and offer our support WITHOUT ANY reference to his mother, of course. We may be all the support he gets. Comments?
Hawk
I think we should leave the poor guy alone. He knows what his mother is doing and getting unsolicited emails of support will be embarrassing. Let him soldier with dignity like everyone else. Just cause his mother has her "anti" opinions this has nothing to do with him. I'm sure he loves his mother and wishes she wasn't so vocal about this....but hey...we dont' get to dictate what our parents think or do....heck we don't even get to do that with our kids. As the father of 22 and 18 yr old boys I know that I've got very little say in what they think, say or do. It's all good. Leave the poor guy in peace.
Yes it's brainwashing, and you get it of your own free will isn't it? Live with it.
If you don't want to join the army, they're not going to get you in your home like in France or Russia.
Who's mother never worried for him if he was to go for Afghanistan? Come on be honest...women are more emotionnal, no hard feelings.
And if the civilians want to debate or criticize military operations it's their ******* democratic right, we're in Afghanistan to defend democracy? It's 100% democratic to get criticized.
Every canadian soldiers that go to afghanistan go of his OWN free will. IF any support i need, it's from my wife and to the extent my family...you cannot make everyone happy.
getting sick to read: that criticizing a mission is unsupportive to the troops, it's totally un-linked, let the politicians do the politics.
As a canadian military we will go where we're asked to go, and show a responsible image of our country as everyone's expecting us to.
And at some point we got influenced/charmed/brainwashed in our youth, maybe i've watched too much G.I JOE'S :blotto:
If you don't want to join the army, they're not going to get you in your home like in France or Russia.
Who's mother never worried for him if he was to go for Afghanistan? Come on be honest...women are more emotionnal, no hard feelings.
And if the civilians want to debate or criticize military operations it's their ******* democratic right, we're in Afghanistan to defend democracy? It's 100% democratic to get criticized.
Every canadian soldiers that go to afghanistan go of his OWN free will. IF any support i need, it's from my wife and to the extent my family...you cannot make everyone happy.
getting sick to read: that criticizing a mission is unsupportive to the troops, it's totally un-linked, let the politicians do the politics.
As a canadian military we will go where we're asked to go, and show a responsible image of our country as everyone's expecting us to.
And at some point we got influenced/charmed/brainwashed in our youth, maybe i've watched too much G.I JOE'S :blotto:
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Just finished watching a news clip on CTV News in Halifax. The segment featured a mother whose son had joined the reserves and she was positive he was seduced and brainswashed by CF propoganda that glamourized war. It then led into a CF document that was obtained which outlined that the CF was concentrating on efforts to recruit young, action oriented males via the internet. The icing on the cake was an interview with the NDP defense critic. My wife (she's CF as well) and I were surprised at the choice of words. We usually reserve the terms seducing and preying upon for drug dealers and pedophiles. It seemed all interviewed were horrified that the CF would use the internet and video games as manner of recruitment... As a reg force officer I am extremely proud of the profession of arms I took up some ten years ago, and I was (naturally) insulted by the tone of the segment. Which, in my opinion, was a non-news item. Why can the CF not use the same mediums of recruitment as any other organization/business. Well, enough of my rant. Curious if anyone else saw it and, if so, opinions.
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:rofl:
Sorry. I didn't see the piece (yet), and I'm not laghing at you SD. It's just the MSM & the Dippers never cease to amaze me. Just when I thought I'd seen and heard everything................ :deadhorse:
Sorry. I didn't see the piece (yet), and I'm not laghing at you SD. It's just the MSM & the Dippers never cease to amaze me. Just when I thought I'd seen and heard everything................ :deadhorse:
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I didn't see the piece. But I do recall being "seduced" and "preyed upon" by a pretty young girl. 30 years later, she's still "seducing" and "preying upon" me. Best thing that ever happened to me.
More to the point - there are myriad stories out there (and many right here on this board) of people joining the service in direct defiance of their parent's wishes. I can only assume that such is the story here - unfortunately, in this particular case, the parent has been given a media soap-box from which to preach her point of view.
You're right - it's NOT "news", but it IS politics - witness the inclusion of the NDP Defense Critic. And, by definition, "politics" is "news".
I feel more for the son of that particular Mom - I'm sure it's not fun trying to defend his Mom to his peers, while disagreeing with her statements. Too bad SHE didn't think about that.
More to the point - there are myriad stories out there (and many right here on this board) of people joining the service in direct defiance of their parent's wishes. I can only assume that such is the story here - unfortunately, in this particular case, the parent has been given a media soap-box from which to preach her point of view.
You're right - it's NOT "news", but it IS politics - witness the inclusion of the NDP Defense Critic. And, by definition, "politics" is "news".
I feel more for the son of that particular Mom - I'm sure it's not fun trying to defend his Mom to his peers, while disagreeing with her statements. Too bad SHE didn't think about that.
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