Casualty Reporting from Afghanistan

[George Wallace]

There is room for some discussion on the matter of what is being reported by embedded Media and their responsibilities in what and when they report.  The following posts in another Topic on the latest tragedy in Afghanistan bring home some important points:

Gentlemen, the point is they we do not allow posts identifying personnel, units, etc., without a public source link.  There are people on the forum that are in the know with these incidents, and we do not want to be the source of a premature leak before the official release.  Therefore, any such posts without a direct linked public source will be challenged and/or removed.

Milnet.ca Staff

First of all, my condolences to those who are suffering this loss.

WARNING RANT INBOUND

This information was initially released in spite of a comms lockdown and in MY OPINION radio Canada should, as a result be asked (read: told) to leave and never come back.

Can you imagine the feelings of every single family member sitting here in Canada? 

Neither one of these reporters were dead, and I'm sure that they (unlike the troops on this Op) were afforded the opportunity to contact their families as soon as humanly possible.  So with their families most likely in the know they felt they had the right to torture those families here at home with the "news" that 2 Vandoo's had been killed?  This is inexcusable irresponsible journalism, it shows a complete disregard for the troops on the ground, the families at home and the orders and directives of the Canadian Forces which these so called journalists were supposed to be operating under.

I certainly hope that Radio Canada pays for this "scoop"

Or we can take direct action:

1. Publicly boycott CBC stations (we probably don't watch/listen anymore anyway). A letter to the local station outlining the above incident and perhaps a CC to the rival stations. Cut and paste from Reccesoldier's post, it has the right tone.

2. Make sure all your friends know and get them to join.

3. CBC TV has advertisers; let the sponsors know you no longer support CBC and why.

4. Write your MP using Reccesoldier's post.

Further eroding the audience and threatening the funding will probably have a much bigger impact than tossing these two ghouls.

 

The Media today seem to flaunt a warped opinion of what the definition of Freedom of the Press is.  Yes, they have freedom to report, but they must also remember that they don't have the Right to everyone's information.  In essence their interpretation of one Freedom is an intrusion on another Freedom and contradicts those rights.  There are Privacy Laws.  There are matters of National Security.  The Press must know their bounds and abide by them.  They do not have the Right to Know everything.  They do not have the Right to Report everything.

The members of the media who are embedded with the CF in Afghanistan are there with strict rules.  They have agreed to those stipulations as to what and when they report.  It is a contract between them and the CF.  If they break those 'rules' then they will pay the consequences.  Without any doubt, those who have released news without going through the proper channels, will soon be on the big silver bird and coming home, and will have ruined the reputation of their colleagues.  No doubt Radio Canada will have a very difficult time convincing anyone that they should be able to send over replacements for their members of the media.  They null and void their agreement with the CF if and when they circumvent 'Communication Lock Downs".

 

[2 Cdo]

  Without any doubt, those who have released news without going through the proper channels, will soon be on the big silver bird and coming home, and will have ruined the reputation of their colleagues. 

Or they can be escorted off base and left to their own devices!

 

[geo]

Or they can be escorted off base and left to their own devices!

We can say that BUT, you know as well as I do that, we won't do that...

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

my thoughts on this one.  The embedded media pers are not mbr's of the CF a comms lockdown does not affect them as it does everyone else, mainley because the jimmies don't have the ability to "turn off" the comms pipe on the media types. That said there has been in the past an understanding between the media types and the mission RSM and they play the game. Now in this case there was a premature leak of what could be considered operational information and ergo results in a violation of the security of information act. These persons should be on thier way to the pogie line just to save face for our national crown owned and operated TV Network, and maybe even the RCMP should be looking at charges under the security of information act (used to be official secrets act) and maybe, just maybe in 2 years or so they might even do some time. The only purpose this would serve is as a wake up call to the rest, premature leaks will not be tolerated, and if they affect families at home or operations (this was relativly close to the completion of the mission) they will be dealt with according to law.  Just my thoughts.

 

[geo]

In the past, the individual journalists who have broken the rule have been sent packing & banned from returning
That's about as far as we can go.
We want the media to write positive things about what we are doing over there.... and you won't have that if the news service has been banned.

 

[tomahawk6]

If I were the commander I would require my PAO approve any story prior to filing for OPSEC/PERSEC issues.

 

[The Bread Guy]

For reference & support when writing to the CBC, feel free to draw their attention to their own journalistic principles, posted on the internet:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/64744.0.html

 

[punisher_6d]

I am still not sure how these two journalists actually violated the rules (if at all) or whether the reports came at the end of the communication lockdown.  It was "Breaking News" yesterday when BGen Guy Laroche announced the deaths from Kandahar.  I follow the news and Quebec media rather closely and all these events happened at the same time. After all this is very big news in Quebec, more so than in the rest of Canada, and came on the same day another soldier's remains were repatriated home.  The DND news release about the incident (which was released simultaneously) even mentioned that Canadian journalists were injured.  No big "scoop" here. 

 

[mudrecceman]

What about the family members and friends of the fallen?  How should they find out about the deaths?

If nothing else, they dropped the ball on that end IMO.

Usually, the names have been released to the public AFTER there has been sufficient time for the family to notify the people that are near and dear to them on their own, rather than those close to the fallen "hearing it on the 6 o'clock news".

 

[geo]

After all this is very big news in Quebec, more so than in the rest of Canada, and came on the same day another soldier's remains were repatriated home. 

The death of Canadian troops is as much a big deal in the rest of Canada as it is in Quebec.
As witness to that, did you see the number of people who lined the overpasses between Trenton & Toronto?
I can also guarantee you that there will be as many people lining the highway of heroes when others follow.

Not a question of it being "no biggie", it's a question of it being "as big a biggie"

 

[punisher_6d]

I don't follow you at all?  How did they "drop the ball" and what names were released on the"six o'clock news?"  The only name withheld was of MWO Mercier, and that was at the request of his family.  

 

[missing1]

"After all this is very big news in Quebec, more so than in the rest of Canada, "

I don't follow YOU at all here,The death of a Canadian soldier is felt the same across Canada regardless of where he may have been from.

Dave

 

[vonGarvin]

I don't follow you at all?  How did they "drop the ball" and what names were released on the"six o'clock news?"  The only name withheld was of MWO Mercier, and that was at the request of his family.  

Punisher:
Here's what happened.  Radio Canada announced that two of theirs were wounded.  They also said that "two soldiers and an interpretor were killed" prior to any official announcement by the military: here or there.  Yes, the General gave his press conference soon after, but that is the key word: AFTER.  
In fact, CTV NewsNet had a tag-line that said "Radio Canada reports 2 soldiers killed".
The point is that whenever the CF makes such announcements, it is ONLY after all the processes are completed.  Radio Canada breached that trust.

As for "big news...more so than in the rest of Canada", I call BS: just check out the "Highway of Heroes" in Ontario.

 

[punisher_6d]

Captain Sensible,

No.  This happened at the same time.  Once a lockdown is lifted in theatre it's free-game for all.  If the media or ISAF, or anyone beats DND releasing relevant information once this is done, then so-be-it.  As for your calling 'BS' to my 'big news' comment, I happen to live in Quebec and yes the current death(s) are being played up on a much much bigger scale here.  I could send you some links or newspapers but it likely wouldn't change your opinion?  C'est la Vie.

 

[Strike]

...The embedded media pers are not mbr's of the CF a comms lockdown does not affect them as it does everyone else, mainley because the jimmies don't have the ability to "turn off" the comms pipe on the media types. That said there has been in the past an understanding between the media types and the mission RSM and they play the game...

My understanding, having spoken with media types (who are actually friends  ;D -- the hazzards of having been a UIO) who have worked with the military both at home and abroad, is that they are indeed obligated to follow these same rules.  They compared it to being able to be ticketed by an MP while driving on a military base.

So, with all that in mind, should a member of the media breach these agreements that they made in the contract that allowed them to become embedded, they should be turfed.

Okay, maybe they aren't friends.  But they are aquaintances and like to buy me beer!  Who can argue with that?

 

[Michael OLeary]

Punisher, who scoops who doesn't matter when the information being passed is wrong.  In your post, attempting to back up mysteriousmind's premature posting, you also stated:

It's pretty obvious that the soldiers killed were Vandoos .....

One soldier was not a "Vandoo"?
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/08/22/soldier-killed.html

Master Cpl. Christian Duchesne . . .  of the 5th Field Ambulance

This is why we take a hard line on the sharing of rumours and tidbits before the official DND news releases.

 

[George Wallace]

....... As for your calling 'BS' to my 'big news' comment, I happen to live in Quebec and yes the current death(s) are being played up on a much much bigger scale here.  I could send you some links or newspapers but it likely wouldn't change your opinion?  C'est la Vie.

I disagree with you.  This is 'big news' all across Canada, just as it has been for all of our previous casualties.  I will agree with you that perhaps now, Quebecers are finally realizing and reacting to the events of casualties coming home to the same degree as the ROC does, so yes it may now be played up to a much larger scale than it ever was before in Quebec.  It, however, is not played up any less in any other part of the nation.  

 

[mudrecceman]

Once a lockdown is lifted in theatre it's free-game for all.  If the media or ISAF, or anyone beats DND releasing relevant information once this is done, then so-be-it. 

Considering what this is about, those are some of the poorest choices of words I have read to date.

As for your calling 'BS' to my 'big news' comment, I happen to live in Quebec and yes the current death(s) are being played up on a much much bigger scale here.  I could send you some links or newspapers but it likely wouldn't change your opinion?  C'est la Vie.

More poorly chosen words.  Played up suggests things that don't need to be suggested IMO.

-10 atleast.

 

[vonGarvin]

Captain Sensible,

No.  This happened at the same time.  Once a lockdown is lifted in theatre it's free-game for all.  If the media or ISAF, or anyone beats DND releasing relevant information once this is done, then so-be-it.  As for your calling 'BS' to my 'big news' comment, I happen to live in Quebec and yes the current death(s) are being played up on a much much bigger scale here.  I could send you some links or newspapers but it likely wouldn't change your opinion?  C'est la Vie.

I disagree with your assertion that they happened at the same time.  I watched CTV NewsNet live ("breaking news") and the press conference happened AFTER they announced that "Radio Canada reports that..."
Your assertion that this news is bigger in Quebec than in the rest of Canada is pure and utter BULLSHIT.  Now, I would agree that MAYBE (JUST MAYBE) this news is bigger in Quebec now than when non-Quebeckers were being killed.  That's only because of the media.

 

[geo]

Might I suggest that the subject was big across the maritimes and cenrtal/western Canada (excluding Quebec) before the deployment of Roto 4 and that Quebec's mainstream media has only just now cought up.