Canadian woman gets three years’ jail in first ever sentencing for a ‘Pretendian’

[dimsum]

Canadian woman gets three years’ jail in first ever sentencing for a ‘Pretendian’

Karima Manji, whose daughters accessed over C$150,000 in benefits for Inuit residents, pleaded guilty in February

www.theguardian.com

I waffled between this section or Radio Chatter, but it does touch on territorial policy so I put it here.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Boiled down, it's fraud

 

[JLB50]

Definitely a crime deserving of punishment. However, I wonder what her punishment would be if she had been convicted of carjacking or if she had used a weapon to commit a robbery?

 

[YZT580]

Definitely a crime deserving of punishment. However, I wonder what her punishment would be if she had been convicted of carjacking or if she had used a weapon to commit a robbery?

first offense: six months, certainly less than 2 years putting her in a provincial facility. 3 years puts her in a federal pen.

 

[ArmyRick]

Canadian woman gets three years’ jail in first ever sentencing for a ‘Pretendian’

Karima Manji, whose daughters accessed over C$150,000 in benefits for Inuit residents, pleaded guilty in February

www.theguardian.com

I waffled between this section or Radio Chatter, but it does touch on territorial policy so I put it here.

I have an Inuit friend and she has enough struggles qualify for benefits. So this lady deserves to rot in jail for this. I hope this sends a message. Buffy Sainte Marie, in prison next?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

first offense: six months, certainly less than 2 years putting her in a provincial facility. 3 years puts her in a federal pen.

Which means she gets out sooner then 2 years less a day and staying provincial.

 

[Eaglelord17]

I disagree with people committing fraud and pretending to be someone they are not for benefits.

That being said I don’t think being a certain race should have any effect on what benefits or rights you have. The whole race based blood quantum garbage is so 1800’s.

 

[FuckThatYo]

I disagree with people committing fraud and pretending to be someone they are not for benefits.

That being said I don’t think being a certain race should have any effect on what benefits or rights you have. The whole race based blood quantum garbage is so 1800’s.

That means you must honestly believe that the Indigenous Peoples do not deserve a distinct group of benefits.

Maybe you should try and think about what has been done to their race by every Canadian Government which has ever been elected to run this nation.

The original plan was basically genocide. When they realized that wasn't achievable, the government focus shifted to killing the separate and individual Indigenous cultures. Many truly evil techniques were employed, in an attempt to achieve their plan...

The most disgusting plan they cooked up, was to remove the next generation, and placing them in full-time residential schools, where they would not learn about themselves or their people's culture and traditions, but instead, be beaten, raped and murdered. This blatantly inhuman, and downright criminal system ran from 1831, until 19-fucking-96. 165 fucking years.

I could go on writing for days about the other methods the government employed, such as relocating groups of Indigenous to extremely remote northern areas, despite the fact the people they relocated had zero experience in high north survival. Flew them there, dropped them off with some building and hunting supplies, said "good fucking luck", and basically abandoned them there. This plan was double-pronged. If they died, all the better. If they lived, they would help the government maintain sovereignty over that section of the north. When it became evident the relocated groups would, in fact, survive, the government flooded their communities with alcohol, knowing the hardship and chaos such a move would bring.

As I said, I could go on and on, but I'm sure you've heard all the stories... You just don't seem to give a flying fuck.

The separation of children from their families didn't stop with the closure of the last residential schools. The government simply diverted the task, by giving legal kidnapping rights to the various provincial Child Protection Service agencies to remove newborn babies, basically in the delivery room, if the mother has any history of substance abuse. Every baby taken, is one less who will learn their culture, and one less "savage" for the government to unnecessarily concern themselves with.

The various methods used by the Canadian Government, over the past two centuries plus, are directly and exclusively responsible for the current state of the Indigenous population. As white people, we have no one else to blame but our predecessors. When their grand plan of killing off an entire race within the country didn't pan out, they flailed, and strung together a multi-century collection of inhuman, ad-hoc measures which slowly destroyed the Indigenous People's traditional way of life, their autonomy as a people, their belief in themselves, the manner in which they were perceived by other races, their ability to live normal, sober lives, their mental health on a generational scale, the intense pride they once possessed, their ability to provide for themselves and their families, and on and on.

Every Canadian Government which has ever existed, has played a role in the destruction of the Indigenous Peoples. People who started out as a race of intensely proud warriors, and highly-skilled, self-sufficient hunter/gatherers. Following centuries of endless criminal actions, and negative interference, however, they are understandably a broken, defeated and almost completely reliant people.

WE DID THAT. THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLES ARE IN NO WAY RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR CURRENT STATE. WE ARE.

Try and think about that, the next time you feel like fucking spouting off about a certain race receiving benefits others do not. That was completely by design, and exactly the way the government both wanted, and still wants it.

Got a fucking problem with the situation? Blame the fucking people who are actually responsible, instead of letting your bullshit racist biases do the talking.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

"We"? Hoop your forehead. I did nothing....

 

[Jarnhamar]

That means you must honestly believe that the Indigenous Peoples do not deserve a distinct group of benefits.

The current system isn't doing them any favors. They're caught in a continuous abuse&victim cycle. Benefits aren't doing shit. If anything it's making their culture and lives worse.

Time to get rid of distinct benefits and help indigenous Canadians become prosperous.

 

[OldSolduer]

Popcorn time

 

[Eaglelord17]

That means you must honestly believe that the Indigenous Peoples do not deserve a distinct group of benefits.

Maybe you should try and think about what has been done to their race by every Canadian Government which has ever been elected to run this nation.

The original plan was basically genocide. When they realized that wasn't achievable, the government focus shifted to killing the separate and individual Indigenous cultures. Many truly evil techniques were employed, in an attempt to achieve their plan...

The most disgusting plan they cooked up, was to remove the next generation, and placing them in full-time residential schools, where they would not learn about themselves or their people's culture and traditions, but instead, be beaten, raped and murdered. This blatantly inhuman, and downright criminal system ran from 1831, until 19-fucking-96. 165 fucking years.

I could go on writing for days about the other methods the government employed, such as relocating groups of Indigenous to extremely remote northern areas, despite the fact the people they relocated had zero experience in high north survival. Flew them there, dropped them off with some building and hunting supplies, said "good fucking luck", and basically abandoned them there. This plan was double-pronged. If they died, all the better. If they lived, they would help the government maintain sovereignty over that section of the north. When it became evident the relocated groups would, in fact, survive, the government flooded their communities with alcohol, knowing the hardship and chaos such a move would bring.

As I said, I could go on and on, but I'm sure you've heard all the stories... You just don't seem to give a flying fuck.

The separation of children from their families didn't stop with the closure of the last residential schools. The government simply diverted the task, by giving legal kidnapping rights to the various provincial Child Protection Service agencies to remove newborn babies, basically in the delivery room, if the mother has any history of substance abuse. Every baby taken, is one less who will learn their culture, and one less "savage" for the government to unnecessarily concern themselves with.

The various methods used by the Canadian Government, over the past two centuries plus, are directly and exclusively responsible for the current state of the Indigenous population. As white people, we have no one else to blame but our predecessors. When their grand plan of killing off an entire race within the country didn't pan out, they flailed, and strung together a multi-century collection of inhuman, ad-hoc measures which slowly destroyed the Indigenous People's traditional way of life, their autonomy as a people, their belief in themselves, the manner in which they were perceived by other races, their ability to live normal, sober lives, their mental health on a generational scale, the intense pride they once possessed, their ability to provide for themselves and their families, and on and on.

Every Canadian Government which has ever existed, has played a role in the destruction of the Indigenous Peoples. People who started out as a race of intensely proud warriors, and highly-skilled, self-sufficient hunter/gatherers. Following centuries of endless criminal actions, and negative interference, however, they are understandably a broken, defeated and almost completely reliant people.

WE DID THAT. THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLES ARE IN NO WAY RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR CURRENT STATE. WE ARE.

Try and think about that, the next time you feel like fucking spouting off about a certain race receiving benefits others do not. That was completely by design, and exactly the way the government both wanted, and still wants it.

Got a fucking problem with the situation? Blame the fucking people who are actually responsible, instead of letting your bullshit racist biases do the talking.

I do not believe any group of people deserve a distinct group of benefits. Racist biases? You mean believing everyone should be treated equally under the law, with the same rights and privileges regardless of birth?

Ahh yes, such a racist concept, as opposed to a blood quantum based accident of birth system that grants specific rights and privileges to certain people others will never be able earn or achieve.

My son is native. He has all sorts of special privileges and benefits a regular child wouldn’t have access to. Some of which are likely going to be extremely useful for him with the various issues he has. And that is wrong. In my opinion everyone should have access to the same benefits.

I know bad things happened to the various native populations. I am well acquainted with their history (and I say acquainted because there is such a large and expansive history trying to learn all of it would be a huge undertaking with so many different tribes and histories), and it is truly sad much of what has been done.

That being said bad things have happened to all sorts of people all around the world for all of history. Its only a matter of picking a time and a place. Some of those bad things were done by various native groups as well. Slavery, war, all the various evils mankind has inflicted on each other, all has been embodied by one group or another.

To me the only way to truly move forward is to make everyone equal and provide equal treatment. How we get there still has to be determined, but that should be the end goal for all.

 

[FuckThatYo]

"We"? Hoop your forehead. I did nothing....

Have you done anything to attempt to curb our government's continued atrocities? I will assume you have not.

In situations such as our government's centuries-long mistreatment of an entire race, inaction is just as harmful and the mistreatment itself. I said "we", because I possess both a clear understanding of the mistreatment, and I have sufficient self-awareness to realize I have done nothing tangible in an attempt to stop it from happening.

My reasons for inaction, are a belief that alone I would achieve nothing, along with the fact I have never been leadership material. I receive and carry out orders well, but I'm certainly not the person any team would want giving orders, and delegating responsibility.

As this is an Army forum, I am basically certain there must be a number of excellent leaders present. Probably one or two in this very thread. The only thing I fear, is that while those very individuals would likely be very effective at leading a movement for change, I have my doubts they would possess the desire required to accept the task.

 

[FuckThatYo]

The current system isn't doing them any favors. They're caught in a continuous abuse&victim cycle. Benefits aren't doing shit. If anything it's making their culture and lives worse.

Time to get rid of distinct benefits and help indigenous Canadians become prosperous.

Oh, I totally agree with you.

The truth is, the benefits were never intended to help Indigenous people "get a leg up". The purpose of the benefits, was to remove their autonomy, and self-sufficiency. The government wanted them to stop living off the land, because that was such a large part of their culture and identity. The general belief of early governments was very much that the Indigenous population were, indeed savages who posed a genuine threat to both settlers and their plans of colonization.

The problem which now exists, is the sheer number of broken and defeated individuals within the Indigenous community. Remember, this is the legacy of over two centuries of government programs designed to fail, and intended to inflict pain and suffering upon an entire population. Although much of the implementation and enactment of said policies were sloppy and even botched, the government always knew the underlying intended outcome. Also remember the original plan was complete genocide.

So, how do we as a nation, assist these people back to their feet, and guide them back to self-sufficiency? A job which would basically an impossibility, without the full support of the federal and provincial governments. I assure you that those entities would, for the most part, prefer to leave Indigenous Peoples in the exact broken state which represents their current reality. The deep primal fear which sincerely terrified the earliest Canadian Governments, still haunts the governments of this nation in 2024. It may not be borne from the same delusions of violent uprisings, complete with scalpings and burned-out chuckwagons, but that same delusional fear is very much alive and well.

Realistically, even with the full support of government, the generational nature of the pain and intense trauma with which Indigenous Peoples must deal, dictates the absolute need for a long-term approach, using long-term solutions, spanning multiple generations. Repairing the damage done would require not months or years, but multiple decades.

I'm not sure how many here are familiar with the concept of generational trauma, but when a society or culture is repeatedly traumatized in a mass sense, for an extended period of time, it becomes so ingrained in the people of that society or culture, it begins to take on a hereditary nature, because it actually can cause genetic changes within those who directly experienced the trauma, first-hand. Those genetic changes are then handed-down to their children, continuing the cycle. This occurs whether or not that next generation experiences similar levels of trauma, or not. Add to that, the common fact that people dealing with intense trauma rarely make for the best parents, and the environmental side of the inherited trauma is complete.

The task of reversing the negative effects of more than two-hundred years of what must have, and still likely feels like inescapable government-inflicted trauma, is a monumental undertaking, to say the least. But, before anyone starts suggesting we should abruptly end the now inherent governmental reliance which was forced upon Indigenous Peoples by past Canadian Governments, the deep trauma inflicted by those very same governments must be addressed, and, at minimum, an effective trauma recovery action plan must be in place.

Indigenous People's biggest mistake, was assuming that the new settlers with whom they were interacting, were doing so in good faith.

 

[FuckThatYo]

Popcorn time

Go pop some... and you'd better make enough to last you a while.

I want as many people as possible to be present for this discussion. If there's one thing I learned during my time serving, it was that anytime there is a seemingly insurmountable task, or excessively steep uphill battle, I understood the most fundamental reasons for the Army's existence.

With a little luck, and if the Serviceable Air Assets Gods happened to be smiling upon us, we could maybe get you guys where you needed to be. But, in the end, the act of getting the toughest jobs done was always shouldered by the men and women in green. (including name tag and epaulette embroidery stitching)

I always had the highest respect for those in combat arms, simply because you all deserved it.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I was just speaking to two Haisla members who are crew on the new Haisea tugs destined for Kitimat. The Haisla Nation instead of waiting for someone to help them have been working hard for years to improve life for their people. By working with LNGCanada and other partners, they have an agreement to provide most of the crew for the harbour and escort tugs. The young man I spoke to was stoked to be crew and wants to one day become a Ship's Pilot. That sort of opportunity and thinking is what is going to change things, not endless yapping at a table in Ottawa. If Indigenous people want change, they are going to need to make it happen, at their level and at the Band Council level.