Canadian Health Care System

[jutes85]

The LIEberals spend WAY too much money on healthcare. They think that buy just throwing money at it, it will get fixed. Why not get rid of our useless Social programs and spend it on something worth while. I just hope that the healthcare system will colapse soon so we can get a semi-private system like that of some European contries.

 

[Freight_Train]

You're kidding right?   Which health and social programs should we get rid of?   The healthcare system is broken and does need to be fixed, but hoping that it will collapse is ludicrous.   Canada, in 2000, spent $2,058 per capita on health care or 9.1% of GDP.   The Americans, for comparison sake, spent $4,499 or 13% of GDP in 2000!   Which European country should we model our new system after?   Germany who spent 10.6%, France at 9.5%, Switzerland at 10.7%?   Most developed, Western nations spend between 8% and 13% of GDP.   Stat's for 2000 here - http://www.who.int/whr/2002/whr2002_annex5.pdf
Greg

 

[George Wallace]

Perhaps he feels that if everyone in the country were in the Military, then there would be no problem of Healthcare costs, as then they would be 'serviced' by the Military.  Doctors would have fixed wages and not do 'Extra Billing' and we would be like Lenin dreamt of when he created Communism.

GW

 

[jutes85]

You're kidding right?   Which health and social programs should we get rid of?   The healthcare system is broken and does need to be fixed, but hoping that it will collapse is ludicrous.   Canada, in 2000, spent $2,058 per capita on health care or 9.1% of GDP.   The Americans, for comparison sake, spent $4,499 or 13% of GDP in 2000!   Which European country should we model our new system after?   Germany who spent 10.6%, France at 9.5%, Switzerland at 10.7%?   Most developed, Western nations spend between 8% and 13% of GDP.   Stat's for 2000 here - http://www.who.int/whr/2002/whr2002_annex5.pdf
Greg

Why do you think that some of the European healthcare systems are better then Canada's? The problem is not how much is spent, but HOW it is spend. We just throw money at it, without any control. If you give a hospital $10 million a year for example for its costs, it will use every cent, there is way too much socialism in Canada. The idiots in Ottawa seem to think that more money is the only solution, Europeans are smarter however, they make sure they pay for every bill seperatly and don't waist money.

Sorry it its off topic.

 

[Freight_Train]

Why do you think that some of the European healthcare systems are better then Canada's? The problem is not how much is spent, but HOW it is spend. We just throw money at it, without any control. If you give a hospital $10 million a year for example for its costs, it will use every cent, there is way too much socialism in Canada. The idiots in Ottawa seem to think that more money is the only solution, Europeans are smarter however, they make sure they pay for every bill seperatly and don't waist money.

Sorry it its off topic.

Sure it's off topic. Perhaps a mod could split this off?   Anyway, I don't know that any of the European healthcare systems are better than ours.   Show me some proof.   The countries I highlighted in my original post spend more per capita than we do.   Every system evolves over time and every funding decision has both intended and unintended consequences.   Healthcare is a HUGE business that has many stakeholders that all want a piece of the pie.   There are far too many special interests involved for a true system change and until the government grows some b a l l s, nothing will change.   So I do agree that they are throwing money at the system to keep it limping along.   BTW, Federal funding provides for only 16% of total public funding.   Source here - http://www.ccc-cce.ca/english/downloads/Funding.pdf
Greg

 

[Gunnerlove]

Waste is inherent with any and all large organizations. To believe otherwise is to believe the neocon garbage that privatizing everything will fix everything. You can minimize waste but to eliminate it is dreaming.

When you break up every bill and expense you increase your accounting costs this could and would be considered waste by most people.

But I am a just dick carry on with bashing my country. ;D

 

[Infanteer]

P.S.

Mr Jutes, if you had bothered to look, you would have found a perfectly acceptable thread to bring you health care issues to light here:

http://army.ca/forums/threads/18097.0.html

 

[Yard Ape]

I just hope that the healthcare system will colapse soon so we can get a semi-private system like that of some European contries.

Things that work in one place do not always work in other places.  Why do you think private health care would work for us?  I would expect the gpvernment could run it cheaper because there would be no profits skimmed of to the private sector. 

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

That is the point that most people who advocate privatization miss, is that there must be a profit margin, where in the public there doesn't need to be.   I think the problem with the public sector is for years the money tree rained down and managers forgot how to manage cost-effective.   I do agree that throwing money at health care is not the answer because the way it it now it would just function as a bottomless pit.
I believe in the two-tier healthcare on a limited basis, I mean in reality only the foolish can't say we don't have it. Tonight Mats Sundin and I collide and hurt our knees, an hour later his MRI is done and I'm still sitting in emerg. waiting to be told mine is in 7 months, or if I have the money I slide across to USA and get it done right away. This is two-tier no matter how you look at it!
What I would like to see is better management were machines don't sit idle for 16 hours everyday while people wait 7 months for something.
Say like in Guelph were the CAT scan machine only gets used 8 hours a day due to lack of funding/techs, open it up to paying customers after normal working times to those who can afford to pay and keep those dollars in Canada. With the profit, expand the OHIP hours accordingly. Those who jump the Que still pay for the OHIP running of the machine with their taxes and help fund the extra running time of the machine. This will lessen the backlog two ways, more open time and people who are ahead of you but pay are also out of your way.
For me, its win-win. but it would require good management and right now thats where my concern would be.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

If jutes knew half as much about health care as he does about the Army...

...err, 1/2 nothing is still nothing isn't it...

I've worked for the Calgary Health Region for the last 4 years, perhaps jutes would like to explain exactly which programs money is being "thrown" at as I am unclear on what he is speaking about.  Unless we are supposed to only post vague generalities, in which case, well done.  I'll counter with my own generality that health care workers aren't paid nearly enough, there is little money for basic equipment like computers and printers, and while the nurses we have are peaches, there aren't enough of them.  Partly due to the "brain drain", which could, of course, be stopped by...more money.

Not that I disagree that throwing money at problems doesn't solve them, but I see no evidence that money is mis-spent.  Perhaps jutes can enlighten us with some actual examples.

 

[Spr.Earl]

Jutes,so what you mean too say is,I as a 51yr old am not allowed to have my annual bum inspection?
What? In your opinion I'm allowed to rot,waste away and die?
Just because I can't afford it?

 

[Infanteer]

Well, I've carried over the health care discussion to the existing forum.

http://army.ca/forums/threads/18097.0.html

Why don't we just kill this goat before it gets beyond silly.

 

[Spr.Earl]

Well, I've carried over the health care discussion to the existing forum.

http://army.ca/forums/threads/18097.0.html

Why don't we just kill this goat before it gets beyond silly.

And it's Master.

 

[tomahawk6]

The politicians sold out DND for national healthcare decades ago. National healthcare is the albatross around the necks of Canada and western europe. It will take a strong PM one day to make things right or a melt down in the system.

 

[MagieNoire]

I am interested in the Canadian healthcare system as viewed by its citizens.

I get the feeling this is a bad topic. Please do not take it out on me.

Is it basically a good concept that's being mismanaged or a bad concept altogether?

Your feelings?

Thanks.

PS- Americans need a healthcare makeover and we are always discussing Canada's but don't know as much as we should. Plus, I don't trust the media to provide the same information a Canadian citizen would. Okay, thanks again.

 

[MagieNoire]

Why do you think that some of the European healthcare systems are better then Canada's? The problem is not how much is spent, but HOW it is spend. We just throw money at it, without any control. If you give a hospital $10 million a year for example for its costs, it will use every cent, there is way too much socialism in Canada. The idiots in Ottawa seem to think that more money is the only solution, Europeans are smarter however, they make sure they pay for every bill seperatly and don't waist money.

Sorry it its off topic.

This is what I am wondering. So, the system is a good one but is being mismanaged? Do you feel the money is going mostly for administration expenses? Perhaps, a revistion of your system with stricter guidelines to followed to end the waste and or profit of the administartions?

I am only guessing because I have no clue.

Our healthcare is going out of the roof!!! You do NOT want our healthcare system. No money, no healthcare. Period.

 

[winchable]

Well if the US were to adopt a universal healthcare system, would it not also need to implement a major tax increase?
It just doesn't sound like it would work in a country, where low taxes and limited government involvement in private citizens financial/business affairs, are some of the basic tenements of its foundation.

 

[MagieNoire]

Well if the US were to adopt a universal healthcare system, would it not also need to implement a major tax increase?
It just doesn't sound like it would work in a country, where low taxes and limited government involvement in private citizens financial/business affairs, are some of the basic tenements of its foundation.

Sigh, I was wondering why you feel your system is failing and or requires improvement.

Our taxes are too low. Huge tax breaks and shelters are given to corporate America, not its citizens. No system will work if it is mismanaged and a front for profit making by the admins that are in control over it.

How is your system not working? Plz, be specific. Thanks.

 

[winchable]

I'll level with you,
It works for me juuust fine, but I've avoided major surgery (knock on wood) up to this point in my life.

I'm sure like anything else in Canada it's a bearacracy rife with waste and could stand to be cleaned up.
If jutes85 is to be believed then the money is wasted because money is thrown as a large lump sum at whatever a desk driver decides they need for the quarter.
So it seems, based on all government activity in Canada, that any review or attempt to restructure would take a veyr long time and cost more in the long run.
So I suppose we either take the waste with a stiff upper lip or complain about it, either way, given the current administrations track record for waste and given the beauracracy inherent in a universal healthcare scheme things are not likely to change or reform.

All speculation.

 

[Stefan Moxness]

For the better part of my life I've had the blessing of not requiring any (actually no time at all) time in the hospital.  Until about 2 years ago when I dislocated my right shoulder.  Since that time it's popped out roughly 12-14 times.  the most recent was on a skiing trip to Colorado.  All of the times that I've dislocated it except the first occasion has been late at night goofing around waiting to go and party (say past midnight), when I arrive at the hospital I typically wait from 2-14 hours before my shoulder finally gets put back in place.  when it happened in colorado i was in and out within an hour.  I believe the major problem with our healthcare system is the lack of pay for most of it's workers and doctors, in Mississauga, a MAJOR suburb of Toronto there were 2 doctors in the ER at night time everytime I've been there (over 6 times), I would chalk this lack of docs up to funding but then again that's just an assumption.  The beauty of the American system is it's speedy, IF you have the money to pay for it (a simple shoulder reduction cost me upwards of 1000$ canadian).  Personally I love our system I'm willing to sit there with my arm out of it's socket for 2 hours if it's means that I needn't spend a grand everytime it happens (for me this would've worked out to over 12 000$ canadian in 2 years, quite a substantial sum).  Anyways my two cents.

Cheers, and be safe.