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Can someone help me?

Tweed

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Hello to whoever is viewing this topic. In my corp, there is a total lack of respect for rank.. dress and other standereds, especially there is a lack of discipline. Now, I've only been in the corp since the 2ND of November 2005, but having a family that's always had a part of the Military, i know a bit about the Standereds. I know I'm new, but our privates act like idiots at times...well most of the time. The cadets don't care about appearance.. i aren't one of those cadets that take it hard core, trying to be a little wannabe, and act all cocky, but i still believe in a good solid appearance.., what should i do, to try and help my RSM and the higher chain of command out, there always asking for tips, they try the best they but, to no avail, i even had my SGT say he didn't think he could take it anymore.


Well, hopefully someone can give me a few tips
- Tweed :cdn:

P.S Why do Cadets polish there combats? i thought you only blacken them
 
Tweed said:
Hello to whoever is viewing this topic. In my corp, there is a total lack of respect for rank.. dress and other standereds, especially there is a lack of discipline. Now, I've only been in the corp since the 2ND of November 2005, but having a family that's always had a part of the Military, i know a bit about the Standereds. I know I'm new, but our privates act like idiots at times...well most of the time. The cadets don't care about appearance.. i aren't one of those cadets that take it hard core, trying to be a little wannabe, and act all cocky, but i still believe in a good solid appearance.., what should i do, to try and help my RSM and the higher chain of command out, there always asking for tips, they try the best they but, to no avail, i even had my SGT say he didn't think he could take it anymore.


Well, hopefully someone can give me a few tips
- Tweed :cdn:

P.S Why do Cadets polish there combats? i thought you only blacken them


I have two sons who were in Cadets (one in Air Cadets, the other in Sea Cadets), both rose to Cadet Sr NCO ranks, and both came across the problems you outlined above.  Both, like you, were children of a military family and knew that things were "not right".

They approached the problem first through the Chain of Command.  This is ALWAYS the first step.  When this didn't appear to be having any effect, and as Cadet Sr NCOs, they approached their Commanding Officers directly.  In one case, this turned things around, in the other, he then spoke to his affiliated Regiment's Cadet Liaison Officer.  This turned the trick.

I have many opinions regarding Cadet Instructor List Officers (or is it CIC, now?)  - some are great, some believe they are in charge of an overaged daycare service, however, the Cadets themselves can be the catalyst for change.  If you want change, you'll make it happen - don't hesitate to use the resources available to you (your Corps Officers, your affiliated CLO, etcetera).

Good luck to you.

 
Thank you for your help, I'll tell my RSM,(even though he knows about the lack of qualities for Respect and etc) during our Canteen oneday he asked us about what we need to work on, alot of people said, respect of rank, and dress, and i don't think anything happend. I over heard one of the cadets say "This is just a time to socialize, like yes  the Cadets are a youth program, but its not like a time to sit on your arse and chat.

  -Tweed
 
Tweed said:
P.S Why do Cadets polish there combats? i thought you only blacken them

Tweed,

Many Regular Force members (I'm sure Pr. Res. to) polish their combats.  During training courses it is unofficially expected, though blackening will usually do.  In my opinion, it looks sharper and makes you look more turned out and switched on. 

Just my opinion,
Good luck getting everything else worked out.

-Quag
 
Tweed,

Many Regular Force members (I'm sure Pr. Res. to) polish their combats.  During training courses it is unofficially expected, though blackening will usually do.  In my opinion, it looks sharper and makes you look more turned out and switched on. 

Just my opinion,
Good luck getting everything else worked out.

-Quag


Thanks Quag, i was wondering, just because a couple of Reg Force guys (like my step dad) looked at me like i was high when i told him that, and also because if you were in a combat zone, you really don't want anything shining
 
A huge thing you can do is set the example.  If you're new and you're coming well turned out while people who have been around for a while aren't, people will take notice.  And hopefully it will catch on.
 
Tweed,

I agree with you that in combat situations, shiny combat boots would not help you.  I was speaking more in terms of garrison. 

I will also point out that during certain combat missions (Afghanistan), desert combat boots are issued.  These are tan in colour and are not shined.

I'm not sure why your step-dad was so flabbergasted by your suggestion of shining combat boots. With any amount of experience, he should have seen manifold troops shining their boots when in garrison.  Also, during his basic training he more than likely did it himself.

Regards,
-Quag
 
  A huge thing you can do is set the example.  If you're new and you're coming well turned out while people who have been around for a while aren't, people will take notice.  And hopefully it will catch on

Thank you, i will try that, hopefully it will work, like i said, I'm not a hard core cocky cadet that thinks the world revoles around him, i just want the Corp to be presentable.


[Tweed,

I agree with you that in combat situations, shiny combat boots would not help you.  I was speaking more in terms of garrison. 

I will also point out that during certain combat missions (Afghanistan), desert combat boots are issued.  These are tan in colour and are not shined.

I'm not sure why your step-dad was so flabbergasted by your suggestion of shining combat boots. With any amount of experience, he should have seen manifold troops shining their boots when in garrison.  Also, during his basic training he more than likely did it himself.

Regards,
-Quag


Thank you. My Step-Dad was just kind of shocked, and i know about the Desert combats (not meaning to sound like a smartass) being hes gone into Afghanistan, but i thank you for your help, it was just bothering me.


- Tweed



edited to sort out your quote  ;)
 
Tweed,

Seeing that I regualrly volenteer my time with cadets for over the past 17 years I'll give you a bit of advice...

- Set the example in regards to dress and deportment, in aspects of your training nights and exercise weekends.

- Sort out the cadets who are giving you a problem, if need be go up your chain and get them sorted out. If it can be handled at the lowest level, the better.

- Be as professional as you can in bearing while in uniform. Walk with a purpose as well. Nothing worse than someone who just shuffles their feet with slouched shoulders.

- If you are in a leadership position, Cpl or higher, for God's sake LEAD. If changes are needed in your corps, bring them up. Address the problem and have a solution to the problem. Nothing worse than someone complaining about the system and not willing to do anything about it.

- Be approachable to your subordinates. Nothing worse than being feared by the youngin's....it puts a gap between you and them.

- Develope a reporr with the cadets that are coming in. If they see a good example from the get go, they'll more than likely try to attain that example.


Just a few things that might help you out.

One the topic of spit shining your combat boots.....there really isn't any need and it's not expected by anyone at all, no matter what you've been lead to beleive. A good brush shine is all that's needed. After a few years it'll start shining all on it's own. This is the accepted standard plain and simple.

There are Reg and P Res force members that do spit shine their boots, for specific reasons that don't apply to you.

At camp the only cadet doing this should be the CSMs and the camp RSM, the rest should be too busy getting things done to do it  ;D

Now in the cadet world you should only be wearing them either in the field on exercise or on training nights as detailed by your CO.

Hope that helps.

Regards




::)  I can hear it now....."My CO said we have to spit shine our combat boots"  and  "We wear combats every night"..............
 
HAHA!

By shine, I didnt mean spit shine. I was referring to just the normal brush job.  As Franko pointed out, after brush polishing your combats, they will begin to naturally shine.  This due in part to the grain becoming smoother and the polish being built up to make the grain smoother.

In my opinion, spit shining your combats is a waste of time.  Your time could be better spent sorting out your kit, or polishing your oxfords, among other things.
 
Hello Tweed,

I am pretty new to my corp i ve only bin in for a year and am a corporal at my corp and it has the exact same problem, I think this problem is one of the most commonly encountered one in all of the cadet corps and i think the only solution to solve these problems is for the corp to work together more like have more cooperative activities and ones were the seniors can earn the respect of their cadets because most kids these days sorly lack it, i know i don't show any at my corp and it really is hard to show it because most seniors are stuck up and never prove their superiority. Also one of the reasons is some of the officers who dont take a strict enough approach to keeping their corp up and running in good order and sometimes i really do wish someone from the reg forces would come to our corp and command it instead of my CO because he is extremely unsure of himself and i really doubt his leadership.

bye
 
Kid_Recruit,

Saying that you want a Reg Force officer to be the CO of your corps is a pretty inane thing to say.  Everyone has their faults, and if your CO is unsure, then it is the job of the srs, and the officers to help make him sure.

Ever think that the reason seniors get no respect is because they weren't show how to properly command respect?  Cadets can be a viscious cycle.
 
well i really think a reg force officer should command our corp and it wouldnt be that difficult to adapt to of course it would be alot stricter, yet it would improve corps all over. I was disappointed when i joined to hear that my CO had never had any field experience because how are they supposed to teach us how to survive in the army if all they do is hand out promotions on certain parades and thats it. We've also had reg forces officers come to our corp alot and they would sort of take control for a bit due to the fact that our CO does not and I found our corp was alot more quicker to form up when told and the experience of cadets was alot more informative and constructive. Also i would like to say something that might be kind of contraversial although i'm sure many people feel the same i am realy disappointed with how the promotions are chosen in cadets because the CO's don't look at your skill they only look at your time in the corp and your volunteer hours for cadet activities.I mean like I'm a corporal and in the cadets the knowledge portion is measured with star levels green being the lowest and national star certification as the last and well i was able to skip through red and silver star within 2 weeks and made it to gold one under the nsce and i tried for nsce but i wasnt able to study enough due to school obligations but i mean me CO shows no respect for people who exceed expectations and it really irritates me alot. If anyone has any helpfull suggestions about this topic feel free to post em up :salute: bye
 
Kid_Recruit,

The best CO's I had were not Reg Force Officer's....and I am not saying that they were slack and let us get away with stuff, because they never did. They were very strong leaders and I will forever be grateful to them for lighting the way for me and other cadets. One in particula has always stayed in my mind, and I wish I could find him and tell him how much I appreciate what he did for us.

and yes, I have met some pretty "slack" CO's in my time too, I'm just happy that they were never mine.
 
well i know not all of the COs are slack but mine is for sure. I have seen some good ones like the dragoons at conaught ranges(sorry don realy know how to spell it) I'm just saying if you do get a good organized corp you should consider yourself fortunite because they are pretty hard to find now a days
 
Kid_Recruit said:
well i really think a reg force officer should command our corp and it wouldnt be that difficult to adapt to of course it would be alot stricter, yet it would improve corps all over.

Reg force Officers can't command a cadet corps, period.

Now to echo Springroll's comment:
The best CO's I had were not Reg Force Officer's....and I am not saying that they were slack and let us get away with stuff, because they never did. They were very strong leaders and I will forever be grateful to them for lighting the way for me and other cadets. One in particula has always stayed in my mind, and I wish I could find him and tell him how much I appreciate what he did for us.

The best CO I had when I was a cadet was a young gent by the name of Serge Dube. He was strict, by the book....but fair at the same time. He moulded the corps into what he believed was the proper way a corps should be.

The deadwood was cleared away quickly, by their own accord. We went from approx 30+ to just shy of 20 in one year....some say that's bad, I don't. He had a plan.

In successive years the corps grew until this day....I think it's sitting at about 150. The senior NCOs are still instilled with the rules he set out and we implemented...which I mentioned above.

It's great to see Snr NCOs in my old corps, using my old drill cane and uttering my old sayings at the ones who screw up.    ;D

Mind you it's a bit overwhelming when the present CO introduces me during a trip I made a couple of years ago as "One of the old originals"...then turns the corps over to me for a bit of drill    ::)

The troops were tired by the time I was done.    ;D

Anyways, I still try to live up to Serge's idea of what makes a proper leader, 23 years later. How's that for influence?    ;)

I have seen some good ones like the dragoons at conaught ranges.....

That's good to hear....that's the corps I volunteer with    ;)

Regards
 
Well if you don't think we need a reg force leader i definitly think our COs need more training to influence us better sure cadets is supposed to be fun and all that but some of us go into it to begin training to become soldiers and we need the best training we can get in order to stay alive in the forces in the future sure saying this probably won't help anything but i know back in the day before c.h.a.p.p cadets was alot more hard core when pt was given everyday at my corp we re lucky to get it once every 3 months and all we get is like 10 push ups. Well thats just my view on this, i could be wrong but if we are expected to be associated with the military i think we should all be trained and be able to live up to the standards of teen soldiers. :salute:
 
You do realize cadets is to develop and interest in the CF its not designed as a pre screening for prospective CF members.

Kid Recruit what you are advocating is child soldiers and that is against international law.
 
Kid_Recruit said:
Well if you don't think we need a reg force leader i definitly think our COs need more training to influence us better sure cadets is supposed to be fun and all that but some of us go into it to begin training to become soldiers and we need the best training we can get in order to stay alive in the forces in the future sure saying this probably won't help anything but i know back in the day before c.h.a.p.p cadets was alot more hard core when pt was given everyday at my corp we re lucky to get it once every 3 months and all we get is like 10 push ups. Well thats just my view on this, i could be wrong but if we are expected to be associated with the military i think we should all be trained and be able to live up to the standards of teen soldiers. :salute:

Cadet's purpose isn't to train you to be a soldier. Look here:

http://www.cadets.ca/about-nous/overview_e.asp

Cadets is a federally-sponsored program for young Canadians ages 12 to 18 who are interested in participating in a variety of challenging and rewarding activities, and learning more about the Canadian Forces.

Cadets are encouraged to become active, responsible members of their communities. They learn valuable life and work skills like teamwork, leadership, and citizenship. Cadets also reap the personal benefits of increased self-confidence and physical fitness, learning how to take initiative, and how to make decisions. Cadets make valuable contributions to Canadian society on a daily basis in terms of environmental, citizenship and community activities.

There is nothing about the cadet movement training you to be a teen soldier. It wasn't in my day either, 23 years ago....or as some would call it the "good old days". Yes we trained with weapons (marksmanship) and did the patrolling stuff on a regular basis with our affiliated units, because they wanted to influence and develop the corps. At no time were we expected to soldier...and that was brought up on a regular basis. We had fun...plain and simple.

Now days the cadet movement has been told, through legislation, that this is no longer acceptable. Canada signed an agreement reference child soldiers:

Canada: Child Soldier Global Report 2001
From the Coalition to Stop the Use of Child Soldiers
With parental consent and reliable proof of age, 16 and 17 year olds can be recruited into the Canadian Armed Forces. Legislative changes reflecting Canada’s commitment to the CRC-OP-CAC include, most recently, Bill S-18 which stipulates that under-18s in the Canadian forces, primarily at military college and in the militia, must not be deployed in hostilities. During the first year of training, recruits may submit a request to the commanding officer for release from service. Except for persons selected for deployment, release is usually authorised but candidates may incur costs if they leave. Most under-18s enter through the Regular Officer Training programme and will not incur costs provided they leave before year two of the advanced programme or before a year and a half in the preparatory programme.

As for PT everyday at your corps...bring it up through your chain of command.

Now onto CHAPP. It's the cadet version of SHARP that we in the CF have been briefed on. It doesn't say that you can't train hard...you just can't harass people.

This is a good thing IMO. If you can't influence people without using harassment and bullying...you're not much of a leader.

Take a look here:  http://www.nwlink.com/~donclark/leader/leader.html

Some excerpts:

Leadership is a process by which a person influences others to accomplish an objective and directs the organization in a way that makes it more cohesive and coherent. Leaders carry out this process by applying their leadership attributes, such as beliefs, values, ethics, character, knowledge, and skills. Although your position as a manager, supervisor, lead, etc. gives you the authority to accomplish certain tasks and objectives in the organization, this power does not make you a leader...it simply makes you the boss. Leadership differs in that it makes the followers want to achieve high goals, rather than simply bossing people around.

Bass' (1989 & 1990) theory of leadership states that there are three basic ways to explain how people become leaders. The first two explain the leadership development for a small number of people. These theories are:

    * Some personality traits may lead people naturally into leadership roles. This is the Trait Theory.
    * A crisis or important event may cause a person to rise to the occasion, which brings out extraordinary leadership qualities in an ordinary person. This is the Great Events Theory.
    * People can choose to become leaders. People can learn leadership skills. This is the Transformational Leadership Theory. It is the most widely accepted theory today and the premise on which this guide is based.

When a person is deciding if she respects you as a leader, she does not think about your attributes, rather, she observes what you do so that she can know who you really are. She uses this observation to tell if you are a honorable and trusted leader or a self serving person who misuses authority to look good and get promoted. Self-serving leaders are not as effective because their employees only obey them, not follow them. They succeed in many areas because they present a good image to their seniors at the expense of their workers.

The basis of good leadership is honorable character and selfless service to your organization. In your employees' eyes, your leadership is everything you do that effects the organization's objectives and their well being. Respected leaders concentrate on what they are [be] (such as beliefs and character), what they know (such as job, tasks, and human nature), and what they do (such as implementing, motivating, and provide direction).


What makes a person want to follow a leader? People want to be guided by those they respect and who have a clear sense of direction. To gain respect, they must be ethical. A sense of direction is achieved by conveying a strong vision of the future.
The Two Most Important Keys to Effective Leadership
A Hay's study examined over 75 key components of employee satisfaction. They found that:

    * Trust and confidence in top leadership was the single most reliable predictor of employee satisfaction in an organization.
    * Effective communication by leadership in three critical areas was the key to winning organizational trust and confidence:
        1. Helping employees understand the company's overall business strategy.
        2. Helping employees understand how they contribute to achieving key business objectives.
        3. Sharing information with employees on both how the company is doing and how an employee's own division is doing - relative to strategic business objectives.

So in a nutshell -- you must be trustworthy and you have to be able to communicate a vision of where the organization needs to go. The next section, "Principles of Leadership", ties in closely with this key concept.

Principles of Leadership
To help you be, know, and do; (U.S. Army, 1973) follow these eleven principles of leadership (later chapters in this guide expand on these and provide tools for implementing them):

  1. Know yourself and seek self-improvement - In order to know yourself, you have to understand your be, know, and do, attributes. Seeking self-improvement means continually strengthening your attributes. This can be accomplished through self-study, formal classes, reflection, and interacting with others.
  2. Be technically proficient - As a leader, you must know your job and have a solid familiarity with your employees' tasks.
  3. Seek responsibility and take responsibility for your actions - Search for ways to guide your organization to new heights. And when things go wrong, they always do sooner or later -- do not blame others. Analyze the situation, take corrective action, and move on to the next challenge.
  4. Make sound and timely decisions - Use good problem solving, decision making, and planning tools.
  5. Set the example - Be a good role model for your employees. They must not only hear what they are expected to do, but also see. We must become the change we want to see - Mahatma Gandhi
  6. Know your people and look out for their well-being - Know human nature and the importance of sincerely caring for your workers.
  7. Keep your workers informed - Know how to communicate with not only them, but also seniors and other key people.
  8. Develop a sense of responsibility in your workers - Help to develop good character traits that will help them carry out their professional responsibilities.
  9. Ensure that tasks are understood, supervised, and accomplished - Communication is the key to this responsibility.
  10. Train as a team - Although many so called leaders call their organization, department, section, etc. a team; they are not really teams...they are just a group of people doing their jobs.
  11. Use the full capabilities of your organization - By developing a team spirit, you will be able to employ your organization, department, section, etc. to its fullest capabilities.

Factors of leadership
There are four major factors in leadership:

Follower
Different people require different styles of leadership. For example, a new hire requires more supervision than an experienced employee. A person who lacks motivation requires a different approach than one with a high degree of motivation. You must know your people! The fundamental starting point is having a good understanding of human nature, such as needs, emotions, and motivation. You must become to know your employees' be, know, and do attributes.

Leader
You must have a honest understanding of who you are, what you know, and what you can do. Also, note that it is the followers, not the leader who determines if a leader is successful. If they do not trust or lack confidence in their leader, then they will be uninspired. To be successful you have to convince your followers, not yourself or your superiors, that you are worthy of being followed.

Communication

You lead through two-way communication. Much of it is nonverbal. For instance, when you "set the example," that communicates to your people that you would not ask them to perform anything that you would not be willing to do. What and how you communicate either builds or harms the relationship between you and your employees.

Situation
All are different. What you do in one situation will not always work in another. You must use your judgment to decide the best course of action and the leadership style needed for each situation. For example, you may need to confront an employee for inappropriate behavior, but if the confrontation is too late or too early, too harsh or too weak, then the results may prove ineffective.

Various forces will affect these factors. Examples of forces are your relationship with your seniors, the skill of your people, the informal leaders within your organization, and how your company is organized.
Attributes
If you are a leader who can be trusted, then those around you will grow to respect you. To be such a leader, there is a Leadership Framework to guide you:

BE KNOW DO
BE a professional. Examples: Be loyal to the organization, perform selfless service, take personal responsibility.

BE a professional who possess good character traits. Examples: Honesty, competence, candor, commitment, integrity, courage, straightforwardness, imagination.

KNOW the four factors of leadership - follower, leader, communication, situation.

KNOW yourself. Examples: strengths and weakness of your character, knowledge, and skills.

KNOW human nature. Examples: Human needs, emotions, and how people respond to stress.

KNOW your job. Examples: be proficient and be able to train others in their tasks.

KNOW your organization. Examples: where to go for help, its climate and culture, who the unofficial leaders are.

DO provide direction. Examples: goal setting, problem solving, decision making, planning.

DO implement. Examples: communicating, coordinating, supervising, evaluating.

DO motivate. Examples: develop moral and esprit in the organization, train, coach, counsel.

Take a close look at the Follower/ Leader paragraphs  ;)

Regards
 
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