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CAN Def Min Wants New JTF-2 Name?!?

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Soldiers fear JTF2 to get Nazi name
Defence minister's proposed new moniker for elite unit can be shortened to 'SS' 

CanWest journalistt, Ottawa Citizen, 18 Dec 06
Article Link

Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor wants to change the name of the Canadian Forces' top counter-terrorism unit, but the move is causing concern among some in the military because of the possibility the new moniker could be linked to Nazi Germany.

Mr. O'Connor is looking at renaming the Ottawa-based Joint Task Force 2 as the First Special Service Regiment. But some in the defence community are worried the abbreviated version of that, the 1st SS Regiment, could turn into a public relations nightmare because of the potential Nazi connotations.

The SS was considered the Praetorian Guard of the Nazis and renowned for its brutality on and off the battlefield.

Chief of Defence Gen. Rick Hillier told military personnel about the name change at a "town hall" meeting last week

Afterwards, the Citizen received calls and e-mails from defence personnel concerned about the potential for JTF2 to be saddled with a Nazi label.

Other soldiers pointed out that JTF2 has worked extremely hard over the last 13 years to make its name known among allied special forces units and they questioned the wisdom of changing it now.

Defence Department sources confirmed a name change is being considered and added that First Special Service Regiment is one of the potential new labels. They did not detail what other names are being considered, if any.

Earlier this year, the military created the country's first special operations command to oversee JTF2, as well as the recently created Canadian Special Operations Regiment, a special operations aviation squadron and an expanded nuclear, biological, chemical and radiological response unit.

Mr. O'Connor's plan would see JTF2 and the special operations regiment referred to as the 1st and 2nd battalions of the First Special Service Regiment.

But some in the military point out that JTF2 is unique in the Canadian Forces since it is the country's only Tier One counter-terrorism/special operations unit. That Tier One standing means it is on par with elite foreign special forces units such as Britain's Special Air Service. Giving JTF2 a battalion designation in a regiment diminishes that uniqueness and ignores the last 13 years of its history, some soldiers argue.

Asked about Mr. O'Connor's plans to change JTF2's name and the concerns about the Nazi SS designation, Etienne Allard, the minister's director of communications, responded: "Canada's new government is in the process of reviewing the future needs and priorities of the Canadian Forces. When the Canada First defence strategy is approved by the government, announcements will be made at the appropriate time."

Defence Department sources, however, argue it is highly unlikely the new name would be referred to as the 1st SS Regiment or as an SS Regiment. They pointed out, for instance, that the existing Royal Canadian Regiment is not called the RC Regiment when referred to in an abbreviated form. Instead, it's called the RCR. The department sources expect the new regiment will be called the 1SSR when it is discussed in military circles or in the public.

They also noted that JTF2 can trace its historical lineage to the First Special Service Force, better known as the Devil's Brigade, a joint U.S.-Canadian commando unit that operated with distinction during the Second World War.

This is not the first time a name change for JTF2, established in 1993, has been considered.

The military looked into renaming JTF2 in 2002 after Liberal MP David Pratt suggested the special forces unit be called something more descriptive. The name Joint Task Force 2, he said, was confusing to some parliamentarians as it gave little indication that the unit was a special forces organization. To add to the confusion, the Canadian military has a tendency to dub various organizations as a "joint task force" even though they are unrelated to the elite unit.

Mr. Pratt, then chairman of the Commons defence committee, wrote then-Liberal defence minister John McCallum with the suggestion that JTF2 be called the Canadian Special Service Force or the Second Special Service Force. The names were in reference to the First Special Service Force of the Second World War.

Mr. McCallum rejected the special service force label since it was too closely linked to the U.S., but he did order a review of the JTF2 name. A decision, however, was later made to stick to the status quo after JTF2's soldiers voted overwhelmingly to keep their original name.

At the time, military spokesman Maj. James Simiana said JTF2 was the most popular moniker among those serving in the unit. "After 10 years of history, the name JTF2 has a high recognition factor by other government departments, Canadian Forces members, allies and indeed the public," he pointed out.

JTF2 also reflects the joint aspect of the unit since its ranks are open to service from members of the army, air force and navy, Maj. Simiana noted.
 
Here's an idea, JTF-2 adopts the liniage of the 1st Canadian American Special Service Force (Devils Brigade of WW2 fame), and the new CSOR adopts the liniage and traditions of 1st Canadian Parachute Battlion of WW2.  Both units, along with 427 SOAS  are under CFSOCOMM, their higher HQ..........  Do we have a Special Forces Brigade here?????

:bullet:
 
Man, this whole issue reeks of military logic. I swear, somewhere in NDHQ there is a department strictly devoted to naming things in the military. When ever somebody's term is up they figure they got to leave their mark (for resume purposes of course). Since nothing is really broken they resort to the quick name change and then claim it as there own creation.  ::)

Examples:
  Then                       Now
FIBUA                          OBUA
MOC names                (I don't even know what I am anymore  :crybaby:)


please feel free to add
 
Funny: we had the Special Service Force for YEARS.  Was it ever called the SS Force?  :rofl:


I mean, really.......
 
Things must be going extremely well, if that is all the MND has to worry about. It is not like, say, the C17 purchase is bogged down in red tape or the press is suggesting that he will lose his job in a cabinet shuffle.
 
career_radio-checker said:
Man, this whole issue reeks of military logic. I swear, somewhere in NDHQ there is a department strictly devoted to naming things in the military. When ever somebody's term is up they figure they got to leave their mark (for resume purposes of course). Since nothing is really broken they resort to the quick name change and then claim it as there own creation.  ::)

Examples:
  Then                       Now
FIBUA                          OBUA
MOC names                (I don't even know what I am anymore  :crybaby:)


please feel free to add

How 'bout these:

EME - LEME - LORE - RCEME - back to EME.

(I know they aren't in the correct order.  The point is the MULTIPLE name changes!)
 
milnewstbay said:
.... confusing to some parliamentarians
I can't imagine a name change ending parilamentarian's "confusion" about things military ::)
 
This reeks of the AF rank slip-on fiasco.  Probably the same person working in both sections.  Blue t-shirts anyone?
 
Let's review a few facts:

The term "Special Service Force" has been used numerous times in Canadian Miliatary History, since the Boar War.

The term "Special Service Force" for what is now 2 CMBG was used for approx. 20 years with not Nazi implications.

The Battle Honours of both the 1SSF and 1st Cdn Para Bn were perpetuated by the CAR.

Everyone knows who JTF2 are.

CSOR does not do the same thing/different role than JTF2.

Yes this does sort of confirm that there are a whole Division of Staff Wienies in Ottawa with nothing better to do than dream up new names for everything, to keep everyone confused.  The reason for this can only be the lax Security by which Canadians as a whole look upon things and it is a CI inspired method to keep not only Canadians guessing, but the enemy too.  OPSEC and PERSEC 101 Canadian style.   ;D
 
milnewstbay said:
Mr. McCallum rejected the special service force label since it was too closely linked to the U.S.,  .....

I am so sick and tired of reading and hearing of this .....
 
I'm sure the boys at the centre of this dribble are thrilled to hear about a potential new name.  After 13 yrs of making an identity for themselves, they get a name that couldn't be more army if it tried.
 
SF2 said:
I'm sure the boys at the centre of this dribble are thrilled to hear about a potential new name.  After 13 yrs of making an identity for themselves, they get a name that couldn't be more army if it tried.

I am out of my lane here, but:

Considering their motto is:"Deeds, not words", I doubt they would give a rats ass about what their name is.

But if we are to change the name of JTF2, I vote for "1st Canadian Ski Team" or "They who shall not be named".
 
A certain journalist really has a bee in his bonnet.  First there was the "Hillier Youth";
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2006/05/hillier-youth.html

now this:

Soldiers fear JTF2 to get Nazi name
Defence minister's proposed new moniker for elite unit can be shortened to 'SS'

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=6b4e2aa3-c035-420a-8166-a215d84fb724&k=90695

Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor wants to change the name of the Canadian Forces' top counter-terrorism unit, but the move is causing concern among some in the military because of the possibility the new moniker could be linked to Nazi Germany.

Mr. O'Connor is looking at renaming the Ottawa-based Joint Task Force 2 as the First Special Service Regiment. But some in the defence community are worried the abbreviated version of that, the 1st SS Regiment, could turn into a public relations nightmare because of the potential Nazi connotations.

The SS was considered the Praetorian Guard of the Nazis and renowned for its brutality on and off the battlefield.

Chief of Defence Gen. Rick Hillier told military personnel about the name change at a "town hall" meeting last week

Afterwards, the Citizen received calls and e-mails from defence personnel concerned about the potential for JTF2 to be saddled with a Nazi label.

Other soldiers pointed out that JTF2 has worked extremely hard over the last 13 years to make its name known among allied special forces units and they questioned the wisdom of changing it now.

Defence Department sources confirmed a name change is being considered and added that First Special Service Regiment is one of the potential new labels. They did not detail what other names are being considered, if any...

Defence Department sources, however, argue it is highly unlikely the new name would be referred to as the 1st SS Regiment or as an SS Regiment. They pointed out, for instance, that the existing Royal Canadian Regiment is not called the RC Regiment when referred to in an abbreviated form. Instead, it's called the RCR. The department sources expect the new regiment will be called the 1SSR when it is discussed in military circles or in the public...

Mark
Ottawa
 
My guess is he's just touchy about this sort of issue because nobody warned his own mother that the name she gave him could be shortened down to a type of group sex.
 
I am out of my lane here, but:
Considering their motto is:"Deeds, not words", I doubt they would give a rats *** about what their name is.

I know for a fact that the atmosphere at a certain event turned complete 180 when this was announced a few days ago to them.  Believe me, they take great pride in their name.
 
medic269 said:
1st Canadian Anonymous :D

We are starting to border on the ridiculous here.......

If you want to go that route, call them "Special Force Anonymous".

If the Minister is asked in the future if he is considering sending any CF Special Forces to handle a situation, he can simply respond that he is going to send "SFA".
 
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